http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Tag: civil disobedience - Recent Posts en Mon, 01 Jun 2026 08:34:48 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-135600 Wed, 04 Dec 2013 14:16:51 +0000 fimm 135600@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I rather liked this quote, from a woman called Hetty Bower who I learned about on the BBC's <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25182850">Been and Gone</a> page:</p> <p>" "We may not win by protesting," Bower once said. "But if we don't protest we will lose." " </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-133269 Tue, 19 Nov 2013 10:33:48 +0000 chdot 133269@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> @comadad: Stop the Killing: Die-In/Vigil at TfL HQ, 1700-1830 Friday, 29 November 2013 @highburyonfoot @jon_events <a href="https://t.co/0T2jnTi6dP" rel="nofollow">https://t.co/0T2jnTi6dP</a></p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-133260 Tue, 19 Nov 2013 10:17:33 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 133260@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>... but the mood in this thread doesn't seem too positive (really surprising to me).</em>"</p> <p>People have different opinions, summed up by this:</p> <p>"<em>there's a risk of getting the wrong type of attention, but I think it's worth that risk.</em>"</p> <p>Whereas I don't, but that's my opinion, it's not right or wrong. It means I personally wouldn't take part in a die-in, but wouldn't argue against the rights of others to do so if they wish.</p> <p>The world is just a great big onion. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-133258 Tue, 19 Nov 2013 10:11:20 +0000 fimm 133258@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, I'd be up for it.<br /> I better start using/following twitter again... (I have two accounts, just don't go there very much)<br /> New thread? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-133134 Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:27:58 +0000 Kim 133134@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I put out <a href="https://twitter.com/kim_harding/status/402381388411703297">a tweet</a> this morning asking if people thought we should have die-ins across Scotland, following this picture </p> <p><img src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZS2ZbkIYAEZ69a.jpg"></p> <p>There has been quite a positive response, anyone else up for it? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-133131 Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:15:30 +0000 russellelly 133131@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The London 'die-in' that chdot linked to is really interesting - <a href="https://www.facebook.com/events/568751353179586" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/events/568751353179586</a>. Firstly, it lets people express their anger (people on bikes in London have a right to be very very angry) and it's not organised by a mainstream organisation (such as LCC or CTC). By doing something big and disruptive (remember, infrastructure/drivers have disrupted the families of the victims lives in unimaginable ways) they will get media attention. Obviously there's a risk of getting the wrong type of attention, but I think it's worth that risk.</p> <p>I'd love for a similar event in Edinburgh (Haymarket would seem an ideal place - rather protest now than after a fatality, right?). Doing it simultaneously would be great, but the mood in this thread doesn't seem too positive (really surprising to me). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-133010 Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:41:17 +0000 fimm 133010@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>Civil disobedience is what it says - a polite, non-violent refusal to obey rules that are only there to disadvantage one group for the benefit of another.</em>"</p> <p>My apologies, I didn't know this (though it is obvious now I see it written down). My aim in starting the thread was more a discussion along the lines that Charterhall suggests. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-132895 Sun, 17 Nov 2013 10:37:36 +0000 chdot 132895@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Might be the time to post this -</p> <p>"<br /> If, by “Cyclist safety” we mean what cyclists can do to other road users, we get a useful indication that cyclists are much less likely than other road users to be involved in incidents where others get hurt or killed. </p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.rdrf.org.uk/2013/11/15/if-we-want-safer-roads-for-cycling-we-have-to-change-how-we-measure-road-safety/" rel="nofollow">http://www.rdrf.org.uk/2013/11/15/if-we-want-safer-roads-for-cycling-we-have-to-change-how-we-measure-road-safety/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-132891 Sun, 17 Nov 2013 10:01:02 +0000 Charterhall 132891@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Apologies, I thought this was a debate on how to draw attention to the woeful provision for cyclists in this country. Seems that you are only prepared to consider ideas within narrow limits. Fine, I'll keep out of it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-132875 Sat, 16 Nov 2013 23:11:29 +0000 Instography 132875@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hijacking photocalls is simply not how civil disobedience works. Hijacking photocells is a protest or a demonstration. Civil disobedience is what it says - a polite, non-violent refusal to obey rules that are only there to disadvantage one group for the benefit of another. This disobedience bit of it is key. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-132871 Sat, 16 Nov 2013 21:49:52 +0000 PS 132871@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Pretty much everywhere has hated tramworks, but loved the trams that resulted. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-132864 Sat, 16 Nov 2013 19:08:52 +0000 Charterhall 132864@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My point though is that any Council photcalls with the trams are ripe for hijacking now </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-132832 Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:57:11 +0000 Nelly 132832@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm with gembo on this, and I don't think Joe public hates the trams, just bored with the roadworks.</p> <p>Im still waiting on the Wall-E style segways to become reality. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-132829 Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:25:40 +0000 gembo 132829@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Nope, complete 180 degree shift, as happened in Manchester and Edinburgh, once they start. If you recall there has been some delay so two years ago the mantra was started when there was a false dawn.</p> <p>Come the real dawn I want to be on the first tram, I am mad keen.</p> <p>There will be accidents as there used to be when we had trams before.</p> <p>Parliament roundly derided suddenly became mass tourist attraction, everyone trying to use it for meetings etc</p> <p>People mostly just do what they always have done. Almost as if they run on tramlines. But in this instance they will be queueing round the block.</p> <p>Happy to be proved wrong, just bored with all the moaning </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-132827 Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:17:26 +0000 chdot 132827@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>You're so off the straight. </p> <p>'everyone is going to love them soon' was the refrain <em>several years ago</em> on ENews comments - at the time when the Jenny Dawe mantra was 'on time, on budget '. </p> <p>I expect mass indifference - until the first car is 'nudged'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-132826 Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:11:20 +0000 gembo 132826@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I would avoid being anti tram now, that is so behind the curve, everyone is going to love them soon even in snooty old edinburgh </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-132822 Sat, 16 Nov 2013 07:22:24 +0000 Charterhall 132822@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The trams may be an appealing target for a protest, they are high profile, they are a pet project ofthe Council, and Joe Public hates them as much as we do. Next time a Council leader plans a photo opportunity with them we could try to organise a flashmob of cyclists to hijack the event ? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-132818 Sat, 16 Nov 2013 00:05:56 +0000 chdot 132818@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>3000+</p> <p>(Prediction) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-132816 Sat, 16 Nov 2013 00:01:04 +0000 Instography 132816@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>After another three deaths today (pedestrians) I suspect rather a lot. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-132809 Fri, 15 Nov 2013 22:53:18 +0000 fimm 132809@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yep. Let's see how many people they get... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-132789 Fri, 15 Nov 2013 20:27:11 +0000 chdot 132789@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://road.cc/content/news/99048-die-planned-transport-london-headquarters-save-our-cyclists’-petition-hits-over" rel="nofollow">http://road.cc/content/news/99048-die-planned-transport-london-headquarters-save-our-cyclists’-petition-hits-over</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-132769 Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:21:00 +0000 minus six 132769@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>inconveniencing others, but not too much</em></p> <p>I've been ambling round Neukölln and Kreuzberg for a week and that pretty much describes the pavement cycling scene here. </p> <p>Plenty don't bother with lights, either. But there are serious numbers -- enough that they can't be victimised in classic EEN style. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622&page=2#post-132699 Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:42:27 +0000 Dave 132699@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I seem to remember that I suggested voting down people who don't do enough for cycling at the ballot box, and punishing the SNP by voting down the referendum, but that proved controversial even on CCE...</p> <p>I've had an idea for a long time for a website that would target politicians on an individual basis by identifying and highlighting the tactical votes most likely to punish them at the relevant elections. </p> <p>As the number of riders grows you might expect there to be a tangible 'cycling vote' that could push its weight around. </p> <p>Ideally you'd need someone at each polling station highlighting who the "cyclists' choice" is though, and I can just see it getting terribly messy... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622#post-132689 Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:59:14 +0000 Instography 132689@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Come to think of it, boats are never rocked by the people in them. They might get wet. It's the people outside the boat who do the rocking - they're already wet and at risk of drowning. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622#post-132687 Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:53:48 +0000 fimm 132687@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Actually, Instography, I like that idea. Not illegal, but inconvenincing others, but not too much. </p> <p>Civil disobedience has to inconvienince others a bit, I guess, otherwise the point is not made?</p> <p>WRT to Kim's point above (that the illegal parking by vans has effectively forced the cycle lane to be reduced to legitimise what is happening anyway) - well the "civil disobedience" response could be to start causing problems to the van. Put stickers on it("Hua Xing supermaket are fat and lazy", "Hua Xing supermarket kills cyclists") tie things on it, I dunno, the sillier and more creative the better. Nothing to damage the van, just an indication that no, it is not OK to leave it there, and if the law on parking is not going to be enforced then people are going to take the law into their own hands. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622#post-132684 Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:41:59 +0000 steveo 132684@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just as likely to get you run over as falling off though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622#post-132683 Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:39:58 +0000 Instography 132683@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yeah, I agree. No one will rock the boat so nothing will happen. </p> <p>They could suggest that people stop their bikes in the middle of the road, get off and carefully lift their bike over the tram rails, before getting back on and continuing cycling. Not sure if that would be illegal. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622#post-132679 Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:32:17 +0000 chdot 132679@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Instography</p> <p>I look forward to "a jury refused to convict a cyclist for riding on the pavement as an act of self-defence" </p> <p>It may well happen - though of course (as you say) such cases might not get to court. </p> <p>The problems with your suggestions are that the cycling organisations (unlike the NAACP) won't (individually or collectively) 'rock the boat' - see Nice Way Code and all the 'don't complain (in public) about the hand that feeds'. </p> <p>Spokes is an exception to that of course, but I don't think it is likely to advocate much cycling on pavements - even "carefully, cycling at walking pace and giving way to pedestrians". </p> <p>Though if there was any obvious way of cycling through Haymarket more safely that was <em>illegal</em>, Spokes might well be in favour as it's resulting in more problems than anything else since Spokes started 36 years ago. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622#post-132675 Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:17:08 +0000 steveo 132675@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Arguably she was also the sympathetic face to hang the movement off. Tragically we've had a couple of sympathetic people killed recently and it hasn't made a jot of difference. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11622#post-132673 Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:10:46 +0000 Instography 132673@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Indeed, Rosa Parks wasn't the first but she was the tipping point, the straw, the catalyst. But you're right, it needs leadership, organisation and support. The NAACP was critical in organising the protests. </p>