http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Tag: holyrood - Recent Posts en Thu, 14 May 2026 02:24:59 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20381#post-338968 Tue, 13 Oct 2020 21:49:44 +0000 crowriver 338968@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Andy Wightman is apparently the Green candidate for Edinburgh Northern &amp; Leith.<br /> Which is interesting.</p> <p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Northern_and_Leith_(Scottish_Parliament_constituency)" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Northern_and_Leith_(Scottish_Parliament_constituency)</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20381#post-338966 Tue, 13 Oct 2020 20:13:30 +0000 gembo 338966@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ah maybe, </p> <p>I see that in </p> <p>This fabulously wealthy suburban constituency is held by Labour</p> <p>But at the end</p> <p>This seat is Labour despite the Comservatives getting the most votes on the list </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20381#post-338965 Tue, 13 Oct 2020 20:07:32 +0000 Frenchy 338965@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I think it might have been a Tory..... </em></p> <p>Alternatively someone taking a very subtle dig at Miles Briggs. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20381#post-338964 Tue, 13 Oct 2020 20:06:13 +0000 gembo 338964@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>SNP could win that seat if the Tory voters vote Tory.</p> <p>I wonder who wrote the Wiki entry for Edinburgh southern Comstituency?</p> <p>I think it might have been a Tory..... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=20381#post-338963 Tue, 13 Oct 2020 20:01:11 +0000 Frenchy 338963@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Is there already a thread?</p> <p>Lesley Macinnes has seeking to be the SNP candidate in Edinburgh Southern: <a href="https://twitter.com/lmacinnessnp/status/1316018743139463178" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/lmacinnessnp/status/1316018743139463178</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=20#post-313551 Mon, 02 Sep 2019 15:07:58 +0000 Frenchy 313551@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sarah Boyack straight into the Scottish Labour front bench, with the Local Government portfolio: <a href="https://twitter.com/wornoutmumhack/status/1168521077443702784" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/wornoutmumhack/status/1168521077443702784</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=20#post-305799 Wed, 01 May 2019 18:36:28 +0000 Rosie 305799@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well that's enlightening. I confess to ignorance about how the list candidates work. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=20#post-305720 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 19:22:20 +0000 jonty 305720@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>You can resign as a list MSP and keep your seat. It's a bit mad but at least consistent with the idea that you vote for individual(s) and takes some power from the whips. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=20#post-305718 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 18:00:31 +0000 I were right about that saddle 305718@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sarah Boyack has accepted the <strike>peerage</strike> sorry seat. Which is good news. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=20#post-305702 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 15:50:23 +0000 acsimpson 305702@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ed1, I agree that the individual is more important. However as you say the process is corrupt. If the party whips are being strict then the individual can find themselves having to choose between keeping their job or maintaining their integrity.</p> <p>I can't think of any system which works well for both the election and a by-election. PR is a must for the election but how is that proportionality maintained in a by-election without all members in the seat being up for election again. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=20#post-305687 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 14:23:50 +0000 Ed1 305687@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>For my elected member I don’t care too much about party. I want integrity principles, character ideally someone who is successful in their own right not just a standard issue Cameron Miliband type.</p> <p>I have complained to elected member about various things. A lack of dentists in the borders, he got me an appointment. I also complained about my employment contract being illegally cancelled at the Scottish government after doing test interview getting contract and pension pack and being sent to 3 buildings to start where they said I declined the jobs when did not.</p> <p>I found my liberal MSP useless when complained about the Scottish government, his people he said refused to write a letter. Lack of character to challenge the corruption of process. I want an elected member who will challenge corruption of process if they cant challenge their own people they no good.</p> <p>I went to complain to my Labour MP Allister Darling when a car crashed in to mine and the police refused to give the details to my insurance company (they are not allowed under blocked plate scheme), had to take 1600 worth of damage on the chin in the end. Allister darlings secretary refused to let me see darling she went back and forth to speak but he lack the Gravitas to challenge the corruption or process.</p> <p>Blocked plates may allow some people to drive without getting tickets from cameras or parking tickets or in practice any tickets, the police use it on some of their own private cars some government bodies use it some people have it on their own private car. Its meant to be for security...........</p> <p>Laws and rules that the public are not aware of are not democratic. People don’t know what laws a party will pass, so cant choose who to vote for, they then cant evaluate a government as don’t know what laws they passed.</p> <p>A good mps would challenge corruption of process </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=20#post-305686 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 14:22:21 +0000 jonty 305686@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Kind of related to my bizarre-sounding argument that names on ballot papers actually does some harm (as well as being totally necessary in most cases!)</p> <p>I think in some places they randomise the order, but then this means that explanatory literature can't show people exactly what they'll see in the booth. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=20#post-305685 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:57:02 +0000 chdot 305685@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“or a party which might have got 2 members in a ward might only get 1”</p> <p>Related issue of first letter of surname resulting in long established councillors not getting re-elected because party colleague had a surname with a name nearer the beginning of the alphabet. </p> <p>I live in a ward where only one of the three existing councillors was up for re-election. She didn’t get enough votes <em>partly</em> (probably) because there was another candidate (different partly) with the same surname higher up the ballot paper. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=20#post-305682 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:44:10 +0000 jonty 305682@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes - diversity is certainly not an argument for it on its own but certainly a nice bonus. Not much different from ensuring safe seats in Westminster have a good balance with all-woman shortlists etc.</p> <p>STV is a goodish choice for councils where the 'personal' connection is really important. However, it has a few downsides - the aforementioned by-election one where it just reverts to FPTP and basically means the most popular party gets a free seat is a bit bizarre (ironically, this would be solved by allowing members to nominate a list of shadows just like the List system). I also dislike how parties have to be tactical about how many candidates they field and how well publicised the 'priority order' is - you can end up with situations where a party might get no seats because first/higher preference votes were split between them, or a party which might have got 2 members in a ward might only get 1 because they chose to field 3 (or a risk-averse 1). I remember hearing that the SNP were bitten by this in Edinburgh once.</p> <p>To be honest though, these do seem like trifling matters of deckchair tidiness when compared to the gaping iceberg hole of FPTP. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=20#post-305667 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 12:31:45 +0000 Frenchy 305667@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Very true, but is a list system that allows people to resign and be replaced good? </em></p> <p>In some respects yes (e.g., maintaining PR). In other respects no. I can't think of an <em>obviously</em> better alternative at the moment, anyway.</p> <p><em>I'd rather diversity came about through voting rather than through candidate selection. That smacks of managed democracy to me.</em></p> <p>I don't think many would disagree. Some, of course, see the benefits of diversity as being worth the cost of some managed democracy. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=20#post-305663 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 12:18:58 +0000 I were right about that saddle 305663@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>closed lists are good for diversity </em></p> <p>I'd rather diversity came about through voting rather than through candidate selection. That smacks of managed democracy to me. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=20#post-305661 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 12:11:09 +0000 chdot 305661@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“The Scottish council election system doesn't deal with by-elections as well as the list system, though.”</p> <p>Very true, but is a list system that allows people to resign and be replaced good? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=20#post-305659 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 12:03:41 +0000 Frenchy 305659@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Multi member wards with STV (as used in Scottish council elections, and the Dáil in Ireland) deals with the problem Ed1 raises to some extent. Parties can put forward multiple candidates if they want to, but voters decide which ones get elected. </p> <p>The Scottish council election system doesn't deal with by-elections as well as the list system, though. It's common for a party to end up with a disproportionate majority of the seats in a ward (2/3 or 3/4) following a by-election, despite receiving only ~33% of first preference votes in the by-election. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=20#post-305657 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 11:59:03 +0000 jonty 305657@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yeah list has its downsides but would much rather PR than FPTP. People talk about "open list" systems where you can choose the candidates on the list through various means but how many people actually would exercise that right with consideration? </p> <p>I think there is an argument that closed lists are good for diversity too - studies have shown that people reviewing CVs can show [un]conscious bias against female/ethnic minority-sounding names. Clearly if you are really invested in the process it's important to really understand who you are voting for but for the many who just vote based on parties/names this may have an effect. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=20#post-305654 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 11:56:34 +0000 I were right about that saddle 305654@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@acsimpson</p> <p>STV as used in local elections allows one to vote on both party and individual basis. I like that system.</p> <p>The Holyrood system;</p> <p>1) Creates two tiers of MSPs and<br /> 2) Allows parties to appoint place-persons that are peers in all but name. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=20#post-305649 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 11:44:08 +0000 acsimpson 305649@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ed1, Unless there is a way to abolish party politics then the list seems far more democratic to me than first past the post. The vast majority of the electorate vote based on the party rather than the candidate.</p> <p>Keiza, was a list candidate so was never elected as a candidate but instead put forward by her party to fill a seat. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=19#post-305562 Mon, 29 Apr 2019 15:18:12 +0000 I were right about that saddle 305562@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And after tax over two years that's about £86,000. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=19#post-305561 Mon, 29 Apr 2019 15:02:31 +0000 Frenchy 305561@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>An MSP's basic annual salary is currently around £62k, according to <a href="http://www.parliament.scot/StaffAndManagementResources/MSP_and_Office_Holder_Salaries_1_April_2017.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.parliament.scot/StaffAndManagementResources/MSP_and_Office_Holder_Salaries_1_April_2017.pdf</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=19#post-305560 Mon, 29 Apr 2019 14:50:23 +0000 Ed1 305560@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This list thing does not seem very democratic as cant choose the person 86k plus pension the highest paid in western Europe if you index MP pay with state pension or job seekers. The uk has one of the larger multiple of state pension to make up elected members pay. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=19#post-305557 Mon, 29 Apr 2019 14:33:05 +0000 I were right about that saddle 305557@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>You'd have to think long and hard before you stepped into her shoes. £86,000 plus pension in the bag but what a scutter. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=19#post-305556 Mon, 29 Apr 2019 14:26:10 +0000 Frenchy 305556@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Kezia Dugdale apparently stepping down as an MSP in July. <a href="https://twitter.com/Political_AlanS/status/1122824745941118976" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/Political_AlanS/status/1122824745941118976</a></p> <p>If I understand the process correctly, Sarah Boyack has first refusal at her seat, then Lesley Hinds. </p> <p>Labour's Lothian list candidates from 2016:</p> <p>1. Kezia Dugdale (elected, stepping down)<br /> 2. Neil Findlay (elected)<br /> 3. Sarah Boyack<br /> 4. Daniel Johnson (elected as constituency MSP)<br /> 5. Lesley Hinds<br /> 6. Jalal Chaudry<br /> 7. Cat Headley (No longer a party member)<br /> 8. Bernard Harkins<br /> 9. Eilidh MacDonald<br /> 10. Shami Khan<br /> 11. Ann Henderson<br /> 12. Richard Corral </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=19#post-219471 Wed, 11 May 2016 07:22:12 +0000 gembo 219471@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot, bit circular? Dreadful careerists let down by dreadful careerists? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=19#post-219467 Tue, 10 May 2016 23:04:48 +0000 chdot 219467@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>He said in the email: “We were let down by a tiny group of dreadful careerists putting themselves above the party’s interests. They will be dealt with.”</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/david-coburn-ukip-let-down-by-dreadful-careerists-1-4123991" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/news/david-coburn-ukip-let-down-by-dreadful-careerists-1-4123991</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=19#post-219313 Mon, 09 May 2016 19:36:14 +0000 gembo 219313@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There is still some support for UKIP in Scotland. Tories I would say have been the historical home of racism. Of course plenty of non-racist Tories. About 120 in the Scottish defence league? Rangers has a fringe element of racists in their supporters. Would we say settlerwatch was racist? If so, then the SNP used to have some racists? Or xenophobes if you like? Racists also I am guessing in labour and lib dem. Just keep quiet? Greens? Somehow doesn't seem likely. Though I suppose there might be some guardian reading racists? Rise I think unlikely to have racists? I heard a curious story about one of the fringe parties and their candidate having a pro eugenics view but that seemed too odd for me to repeat. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15877&page=19#post-219286 Mon, 09 May 2016 15:58:52 +0000 crowriver 219286@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From the above: "progressive parties have lost out to UKIP who are effectively the new representatives of white working class racism in Wales"</p> <p>If true, that raises the question of which party represents white working class racism in Scotland? Clearly not UKIP as their results are poor. Does the racist vote go somewhere else or is Scotland a racism free Nirvana?</p> <p>"radical left cultural nationalism" indeed. Hm. I don't think Paul Mason has quite got that right... </p>