http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Tag: lights visibility reflectives - Recent Posts en Sat, 18 Apr 2026 09:19:29 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=3#post-136125 Mon, 09 Dec 2013 09:56:44 +0000 fimm 136125@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well I finally had a look at the road on Friday, and my reaction is: it is a long straight road, with plenty of streetlights. How on earth did you find me difficult to see? There must have been a streetlight out, or something. I just don't get it otherwise.</p> <p>I've renewed the batteries in my rear lights. I might still play with using the tabard just to see if I perceive a difference, but that will not be as a result of this incident. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=3#post-135971 Sat, 07 Dec 2013 11:43:47 +0000 Arellcat 135971@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Meanwhile, in Martha's Vineyard:</p> <p><a href="http://www.mvtimes.com/2013/12/04/scary-little-yellow-bike-thing-18200/" rel="nofollow">http://www.mvtimes.com/2013/12/04/scary-little-yellow-bike-thing-18200/</a></p> <p>Even a nine-foot-long yellow velomobile with eyeball-searing lighting is invisible. As 'freddotu' remarked in response to that article, "the majority of the comments posted on that site indicate an unfortunate tendency of today's society, at least in the USA. 'Everyone' wants to legislate everyone else. Far too few people are willing to embrace education in place of legislation."</p> <p>Those who tell us we're not very visible would rather we stayed off their road, in order to compensate for their inattentions by proxy rather than them acknowledge those inattentions directly.</p> <p><em>Yesterday's adequately lit cyclist is today's almost invisible ninja because expectations are shifting...</em></p> <p>Yesterday's successful prosecution on the evidence of a helmet cam is today's unsuccessful prosecution on the evidence of verbal witness statements. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=3#post-135970 Sat, 07 Dec 2013 11:26:46 +0000 chdot 135970@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/msp-parked-in-disabled-bay-because-it-was-dark-1-3224225" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/msp-parked-in-disabled-bay-because-it-was-dark-1-3224225</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=3#post-135965 Sat, 07 Dec 2013 11:06:33 +0000 chdot 135965@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"it's all academic. The interesting thing about it is the extent to which it illustrates a shift in driver expectations</p> <p>...</p> <p>You can never be too bright, too fluorescent or too reflective. That's the message"</p> <p>I think there is, sadly, another factor. A lot of drivers (I believe) wouldn't pass the basic 'read at numberplate at X paces' test. </p> <p>The amount of light from other cars etc. won't help. </p> <p>Once again the 'don't upset the motorist too much' reality reduces 'road safety'. </p> <p>It's the time of year when drink-driving and breathalysers are the focus. </p> <p>Police might help things if they did the eye-test test - no equipment required. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=3#post-135962 Sat, 07 Dec 2013 02:32:18 +0000 allebong 135962@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I should mention that I wasn't referring to fimms original incident with my first remark there, more of a general observation, so I hope it hasn't come across the wrong way to anyone.</p> <p>Anyway there's plenty of good stuff to keep debating here but it'll have to wait until tomorrow when I'm not just about falling asleep on the keyboard. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=3#post-135961 Sat, 07 Dec 2013 02:08:18 +0000 Instography 135961@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If we stick to the facts as we know them we don't need to worry too much about subjectivity. Fimm wrote:</p> <p><em>I have two lights, and she agreed that she could see them, but she still felt that I could be more visible, and wondered if I had something reflective to wear.</em></p> <p>So we're not talking about the adequacy or brightness of the lights. They were clearly visible, adequate, even if fimm thinks the batteries were a bit low and the lights could have been brighter. No, the woman was concerned with greater overall lit-up-ness. Something more reflective. Something to increase the size of the obstacle.</p> <p>Anyway, it's all academic. The interesting thing about it is the extent to which it illustrates a shift in driver expectations. No longer do they expect cyclists to just have the flaky Ever Ready 1.5v bulbs and maybe a reflector of yore. No, they expect full hi viz and reflectives and they're willing to come up to you in a train station and tell you that that's what you should be doing. It's your job to not get killed and their job to tell you that you don't glow brightly enough.</p> <p>The trouble with that, and the reason that I keep commenting (apart from quite liking debates - you say endless like that's a bad thing) is that it's ever-escalating. Yesterday's adequately lit cyclist is today's almost invisible ninja because expectations are shifting and there's enough cyclists willing enough and worried enough to go along with it. A reflective strip here, another light, a set of Mrs Armitage attachments to attach some more lights, spoke reflectors, reflective sidewalls, wheels, something discrete but reflective on your jacket, bag, hat, trousers, shoes, pedals and put a little band around your ankles and wrists (for good measure - you can never be too careful). When we complain about super-bright lights on paths, we should just shut up because those guys are playing the game too. Bright? Not bright enough. You can never be too bright, too fluorescent or too reflective. That's the message. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=3#post-135960 Sat, 07 Dec 2013 01:10:06 +0000 allebong 135960@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Telling someone who thinks they are lit that they are unlit is very different from telling someone who is adequately lit that they should be more lit. </em></p> <p>True as far as it goes, but then half the problem is that one persons idea of 'adequately lit' may be viewed by another as being so poorly lit as to be essentially unlit, and worthy of commenting on in the same manner. </p> <p>You could likely come up with some semi-scientific objective measurement of 'visibility', say based on lumens produced by lights on the bike combined with lumens reflected by car headlights at various distances and angles, but then I'm struggling to think what you'd even end up being able to 'prove' with it anyway, since as noted earlier being ultra visible makes precisely zero difference if people aren't looking to begin with.</p> <p>I'm pretty obsessive about lights and reflectives myself but I'm happy to concede that the vast majority of your visibility is going to come from any set of half decent lights. Adding helmet lights, running one-steady one-flashing at front and back, extra reflective tape, that all helps, but it's still less of a gain than going from unlit to a single set of lights.</p> <p>Anyway I had promised myself not to get too involved in this thread as it seems ripe for h-word levels of endless debate without resolution. So much for that... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=3#post-135958 Sat, 07 Dec 2013 00:21:35 +0000 Instography 135958@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Telling someone who thinks they are lit that they are unlit is very different from telling someone who is adequately lit that they should be more lit. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=3#post-135941 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 19:52:44 +0000 Uberuce 135941@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I love my brick* [/Father Jack]</p> <p>One of the things I like best about the blinky on my head is that it makes other non-ninja cyclists screamingly obvious to me, to the point I wish there was some way of mandating a blinky mounted on the windscreen just above the driver's head without sacrificing the safety benefit of blink=bike. </p> <p>*ie's vest. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=3#post-135932 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 19:03:15 +0000 Smudge 135932@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>White reflective tape to the side may be technically illegal, but then so will my reflective sidewalls be then? Good for side viz though. Reflectives don't need to be seen from the front, that's what my headlamp is for ;-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=3#post-135919 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 15:38:47 +0000 geordiefatbloke 135919@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That's not to say that I'm not still apparently invisible to some road users, but at least I feel I have a higher ground whilst berating them :) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=3#post-135906 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 13:07:29 +0000 geordiefatbloke 135906@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My 2p worth.</p> <p>I commute pretty much every day by bike, occasionally (say once a month) I take the car. I don't want to give the other road users any "I didn't see you" excuses, so I wear full bright yellow reflective jacket, bright yellow reflective panniers, plus six lights (four on bike: one flashing, one steady, front and back; plus front and back on helmet). My reasoning: as a driver I find it harder to judge speed/distance of bike with just a flashing light compared to steady, but also a flashing light makes me notice them more, hence one of each. Helmet lights: helps me be seen better in, say, a queue of traffic where the height of the cars obscure the other lights. Bright yellow: in pretty much all conditions this is easier to spot than dark clothes.</p> <p>All these things are done in a kind of good/better approach e.g. dark reflective clothes good, bright reflective clothes better.</p> <p>Overkill? Possibly. Do I look a fool. Definitely. In an ideal world I wouldn't have to go to such lengths. But, it's not an ideal world. And to paraphrase me Dad, I'd rather look like an idiot who's alive than cool roadkill. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=3#post-135901 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 12:49:31 +0000 wingpig 135901@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Is there a special word for the evidence-based-argument version of negative space? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=3#post-135899 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 12:33:31 +0000 steveo 135899@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>ru'roh... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=2#post-135898 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 12:30:17 +0000 stiltskin 135898@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>The evidence on Hi-viz and collision, is that it doesn't make a significant difference difference to the frequency of collision. </em></p> <p>Really? What evidence is that? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=2#post-135897 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 12:29:45 +0000 MeepMeep 135897@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think this is getting into h****t debate territory so I am staying firmly out of any analysis of what the lady did or did not infer by passing comment to Fimm.</p> <p>I will however dare to ask what people might have inferred by my slowing down in my car and calling out of my window to a cyclist on Calder Road one night last winter that his "rear light is out".</p> <p>I would note I could see him despite no hi-viz, I wasn't overly concerned that my driving was a danger to him (outside of any purely unforeseeable accidents in the true definition of the word), but if roles had've been reversed I would certainly have appreciated someone pointing it out.</p> <p>Genuinely horrified to think I'd get some of these types of comments in response for doing what I perceived as a good deed and I don't see how Fimm described her experience as being much different. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=2#post-135896 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 12:20:09 +0000 SRD 135896@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Kim - did you actually read fimm's post? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=2#post-135895 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 12:04:27 +0000 Kim 135895@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@fimm it wouldn't have made any difference what you were wearing, what this person was actually saying was that you were on the road and in their way.</p> <p>The evidence on Hi-viz and collision, is that it doesn't make a significant difference difference to the frequency of collision. But the motoring lobby finds it is a useful way of blaming the victim for being on the road and therefore in the way. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=2#post-135892 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 11:50:58 +0000 neddie 135892@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Another warning on reflectives. They don't work if the car headlights aren't actually shining on you!</p> <p>For example when a car waits to pull out of a T junction onto the main road you are on, their headlights will not be shining on you! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=2#post-135890 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 11:48:09 +0000 wingpig 135890@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote><em>"...whilst wondering what a Brompton salute comprises..."</em></blockquote></p> <p>Arms folded?</p> <p>I assume the yellow-sideways rule makes an exception to rear-and-forward-facing pedal reflectors, seeing as they're technically mandatory?</p> <p>I might make something to Velcro to the back of a hat for when I'm not wearing either helm or reflective-striped buff, so that there's always something marking the upper extent of the non-reflective mass above the lit-and-reflectived bicycle... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=2#post-135878 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 10:37:46 +0000 Darkerside 135878@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>An (exceptionally timid) word of warning on reflectives.</p> <p>Theoretically, anything actually on the bike should comply with the lighting legislation about white/yeloow forward, amber to the side and red to the rear. This applies to both lights and reflectives (so blue reflectives may not be used on anything that isn't a police vehicle, for example).</p> <p>Rider clothing doesn't count, but if you're slapping tape on the rear of the bike that shines white then you're technically not playing by the rules. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=2#post-135873 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 09:38:14 +0000 fimm 135873@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>&lt;Returns salute @Smudge&gt;<br /> I'd be interested to see your reflectives on your Brompton - my feeling is that one downside of them is that the body of the bike is smaller and closer to the ground compared with a conventional bike, so the visible thing is mostly the rider rather than the bike.</p> <p>@AIMC but what about cyclists with adequate lights but dark and non-reflective clothing? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=2#post-135872 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 09:36:14 +0000 crowriver 135872@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Saw a dog with one of those LED Xmas lights collars on Restalrig path yesterday. Handy things: I could see the mutt from a good distance away.</p> <p>@sallyhinch, ah one of <em>those</em>. Get so many drivers like that in Edinburgh. I sometimes wonder if many drivers underestimate cyclists' speed (or overestimate their own). The rest are just chancers or aggressive idiots. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=2#post-135869 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 08:40:04 +0000 Charterhall 135869@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'd like to see legislation that anyone using a designated cycle path after dark should have lights and reflective clothing. That includes dogs. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=2#post-135868 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 08:38:48 +0000 AIMC 135868@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Don't particularly like my yellow jacket but if it saves me from being knocked down then that's what I'll be wearing this winter. I get a bit cross with cyclists who wear 'normal' clothes with no reflective bits and inadequate lights, particularly on dark and wet nights. They are <strong>extremely</strong> hard to see. I consider myself to be a careful driver but I know from my daily commute not everyone is. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=2#post-135867 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 08:38:25 +0000 fiets 135867@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I have one light on the handlebars and two lower down on the front fork. My front spokes all have thin silver reflectors running along their lengths so I reflect my own lights. It's effective....but a little Christmas-tree like!! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=2#post-135865 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 08:12:18 +0000 Smudge 135865@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Smart dark jacket and trousers today, "Solidarity sister!" (Waves arm in air in vague salute, pulls arm back whilst wondering what a Brompton salute comprises of and wilting under the gaze of baffled train passengers) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=2#post-135859 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 01:24:31 +0000 Snowy 135859@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Got to agree with Smudge about the retro-reflective stuff - depends on colour of your bike obviously but the silver and black versions are extremely good. About 12 quid for an A4 sheet, I think.</p> <p>Personal experience: prefer good lights and lots of reflective bits to wearing 'bright' clothing (which often isn't, conditions depending). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=2#post-135843 Thu, 05 Dec 2013 23:08:21 +0000 sallyhinch 135843@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Crowriver - I got the impression he looked, saw, and decided to pull out anyway because waiting would have held him up. It wasn't particularly close, but I did have to brake and he wouldn't have done it to a car, even a car wearing hi-vis. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11785&page=2#post-135840 Thu, 05 Dec 2013 22:41:59 +0000 Zenfrozt 135840@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm quite fond of my bright pink jacket of see-me-ness :) Even have gloves to match. </p>