http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Tag: Livingston - Recent Posts en Sun, 17 May 2026 05:30:49 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9579#post-102242 Wed, 27 Feb 2013 18:41:45 +0000 fimm 102242@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Osm looks better than cyclestreets imho.<br /> Livingston also very car centered.<br /> All off-road paths shared use no segregation. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9579#post-102231 Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:27:17 +0000 sallyhinch 102231@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Interesting response from my OH re Stevenage, where his employer used to have an office he visited occasionally:</p> <p>The first time he went there he took the train and walked from the station (along the same paths) but it was rather creepy because there was absolutely nobody about. After that he just did what everyone else in the office did and drove around the M25 (we were living in Maidenhead at the time) and claimed shedloads for the mileage.</p> <p>Everything was very spread out, with huge car parks and it reminded him of his US suburban childhood, so even with the cycling infrastructure which was great and completely separated from traffic, it still felt a car-dominated place. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9579#post-102193 Wed, 27 Feb 2013 12:23:15 +0000 amir 102193@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There was some chat on a similar theme a while ago<br /> <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8335" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8335</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9579#post-102189 Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:50:50 +0000 chdot 102189@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"(Not having a go at you, but at the map!!)"</p> <p>No prob. </p> <p>Didn't <em>actually</em> look at key...</p> <p>Info must be somewhere - but if not easy/obvious needs looking into. </p> <p>(I had something to do with CS <em>happening</em>, but not its general details/spectacular success.) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9579#post-102188 Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:48:45 +0000 crowriver 102188@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@fimm, Spokes map is good. I have the older edition, still very useful. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9579#post-102186 Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:45:45 +0000 fimm 102186@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That key only tells me about cycle facilities. What's the difference between blue dotted lines and brown dotted lines, for example? (It could be tarmac/no tarmac, or it could be path where you are permitted to cycle/path where you are not permitted to cycle. Or something else.)</p> <p>(Not having a go at you, but at the map!!)</p> <p>Anyway I have my running kit with me and there's an oddity that will provide a useful target for my lunchtime run, so that's good :-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9579#post-102180 Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:33:56 +0000 chdot 102180@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Link at bottom right of map (probably should be bigger and/or elsewhere). </p> <p><a href="http://westlothian.cyclestreets.net/journey/help/faq/#mapkey" rel="nofollow">http://westlothian.cyclestreets.net/journey/help/faq/#mapkey</a></p> <p>Also inspite of size, no <a href="http://livingston.cyclestreets.net" rel="nofollow">http://livingston.cyclestreets.net</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9579#post-102179 Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:32:26 +0000 crowriver 102179@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Oh I've used some paths around Uphall/Broxburn way and they're pretty good. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9579#post-102178 Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:27:29 +0000 fimm 102178@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot, interesting...<br /> The cyclstreets map doesn't seem to have a key, so I can't work out what the different coloured lines are telling me... (I've sent them feedback.) It does look quite useful... though there's something I don't understand on the section I use regularly... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9579#post-102177 Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:23:15 +0000 crowriver 102177@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There's also the Spokes map, West Lothian &amp; Livingston (3rd edition, 2012) - £5.95.</p> <p><a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/spokes-maps/" rel="nofollow">http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/spokes-maps/</a></p> <p>If in any doubt that Spokes maps are good, check out this endorsement: “On a family ride to the Borders my brake cable broke – I checked the Spokes Midlothian map and found a shop in Penicuik (Motavation) – they couldn’t have been more helpful.“ [SRD, July 2010] </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9579#post-102175 Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:12:06 +0000 chdot 102175@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I'm not aware of a good map"</p> <p>I got this years ago -</p> <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/8511763999/"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8512/8511763999_f26ca67f62.jpg"></a></p> <p>Seems still available -</p> <p><a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1851373039" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1851373039</a></p> <p>Don't know if all paths logged in <a href="http://OSM.org">OSM</a></p> <p><a href="http://WestLothian.cyclestreets.net/journey/from/55.901344,-3.543619/Livingston+North" rel="nofollow">http://WestLothian.cyclestreets.net/journey/from/55.901344,-3.543619/Livingston+North</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9579#post-102172 Wed, 27 Feb 2013 10:55:26 +0000 kaputnik 102172@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>If you build it they will come?</em></p> <p>Yes, but "it" has to be built as a direct and convenient route from where people are to where people want to be and "it" also has to have good connectivity to other paths and routes.</p> <p>Edinburgh I don't think has really got this latter bit yet. It's got lots of (for UK standards) really good bits of path, and a fairly comprehensive network in some parts of the city thanks to the poor foresight of our Victorian railway engineers, however there's countless places were a few hundred extra metres of path to connect bits here and there, or even just removing the odd obstacle here and dropping the odd kerb there would make a massive improvement. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9579#post-102171 Wed, 27 Feb 2013 10:54:11 +0000 fimm 102171@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The articles about Stevenage are very interesting and worth reading. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9579#post-102167 Wed, 27 Feb 2013 10:34:57 +0000 fimm 102167@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I work in Livingston and commute there from Edinburgh mostly by bike-train-bike and sometimes all the way by bike.</p> <p>I rarely cycle on the off road paths. However at least some of my reasons for this are to do with the fact that I have a very restricted set of journeys I want to make. So:</p> <p>1) the off road paths between the station and my office are a lot less direct than cycling along the road, (even though the road has a 40mph speed limit which I guess is not strictly adhered to by many)</p> <p>2) the most serious fall from a bike I have had in the past few years was due to black ice on a cycle path (this was when I did use them) and was one reason I stopped using them.</p> <p>3) I can think of one path near a school that does appear to be regularly gritted (and cleared of leaves) but I prefer to go the long way round because I'm a creature of habit and I can't be bothered to go and see if it is OK, I'll just go round.</p> <p>4) getting from the cycle path to the office involves a muddy path and I don't want to get my shoes or my bike muddy (I'm aware this is specific to my particular office!)</p> <p>5) However, on the odd occasion that I go into the Centre from the office by bike, there is a useful off road cycle path that is much more direct and so, guess what, I use it!</p> <p>6) Another problem is that the off road paths are hard to navigate. I'm not aware of a good map. So if I have to go somewhere new I will use the roads because I can find a route easily.</p> <p>7) I do like the off-road paths as a place to go running in my lunch hour. But, then I'm not trying to <em>go somewhere</em>: I'm quite happy to run for a bit and then turn round and run back.</p> <p>Oh, and there are lots more cyclists in Edinburgh than in Livingston, by my observation. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9579#post-102123 Tue, 26 Feb 2013 22:31:23 +0000 gembo 102123@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Stevenage had no pavements when I was there in 1990 for a visit. As a pedestrian you walked on the cycle path which was as wide as a road. You shared it with motorbikes. </p> <p>EK I cannot comment</p> <p>Livingston has a large network of off road paths. I have used them a fair bit in the past, you are often the only person on them. They are a little windy. However, if I was going to Bathgate by bicycle,,Inwould use a combo of road and path, the last section towards Bathgate is in a country park but is actually old road network, these are less windy. Bathgate has a couple of good paths. </p> <p>The NEPN is better as straight as a disused railway to get to places you want to go to. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9579#post-102118 Tue, 26 Feb 2013 22:09:05 +0000 Calum 102118@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Some of the infrastructure in EK is quite good. The paths are wide enough, separated from pedestrians and motor vehicles, and there are underpasses at roundabouts.</p> <p>The problem is that the cycle paths tend to pap you back onto the (busy, high-speed, dual-)carriageway frequently, and many roads that need cycle paths lack them altogether. The treatment of bus stops is also not very good. On the whole I don't see that EK's infrastructure can be described as adequate. It's a half-hearted effort and you certainly couldn't let a child cycle anywhere in town on their own, which is what I feel should be the goal and the quality bar. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9579#post-102111 Tue, 26 Feb 2013 21:18:54 +0000 DaveC 102111@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I live in a new town, Dalgety Bay. We have a core network but its pretty much a coastal path sort of typical Sustrans path which weaves through the towns streets in a random way. We also have some joining up paths from Train St to St David's bay. The strees areall 20mph except for arterial routes whic are 30mph. Pretty good network of paths for pedestrians but of course cyclists are restricted. Traffic is generally light but as cycling goes I feel we have some good paths but not quite enough, especially when trying to get children to school without cycling on a path or roads. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9579#post-102082 Tue, 26 Feb 2013 18:11:58 +0000 sallyhinch 102082@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This is very instructive from Carlton Reid</p> <p><a href="http://www.roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com/stevenage/" rel="nofollow">http://www.roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com/stevenage/</a></p> <p>Basically: Stevenage does have a good, well-designed cycle network at least as good as what was being implemented in the Netherlands in the 70s, yet cycling has fallen from about 14% commuting modal share in the 60s to the usual 3%-with-a-following-wind now. </p> <p>The ECF's view is that it's because cars weren't restricted at the same time</p> <p><a href="http://www.ecf.com/news/what-happens-when-you-build-it-and-they-dont-come-the-cautionary-tale-of-stevenage/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ecf.com/news/what-happens-when-you-build-it-and-they-dont-come-the-cautionary-tale-of-stevenage/</a></p> <p>I don't know Stevenage well enough to say one way or the other - but it did remind me that I was going to ask on here about what Livingston and East Kilbride are like &amp; whether it's the same sort of situation. I was struck when talking to cyclists at Pedal for Scotland that the ones from both places couldn't actually think of anything they'd want to see improved locally, as they reckoned their network was already pretty complete and even well-maintained. But that may just be by British standards. Anyone here cycle there much? Any thoughts? </p>