CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Tag: NewYork Segregation Pedestrianisation

CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Tag: NewYork Segregation Pedestrianisation - Recent Posts http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Tag: NewYork Segregation Pedestrianisation - Recent Posts en Tue, 19 May 2026 08:37:27 +0000 paulmilne on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-225415 Wed, 20 Jul 2016 14:08:28 +0000 paulmilne 225415@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Yes, welcome wrighrkuk, I'm a big fan of your blog. With the best will in the world the wheels grind so slowly even when things are going the way you want. But as chdot says we have good advocates and council-approved 10% of transport budget for cycling, some decent infra plans in the pipeline so we're in a good position if we can just push forward. But I agree that London is a better model simply because the planning/consultation/traffic laws are more closely aligned with them, never mind the actual progress they've made with cycling, which is considerable. chdot on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-225414 Wed, 20 Jul 2016 13:57:19 +0000 chdot 225414@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Welcome wrighrkuk "Edinburgh (where I used to live and cycle) would be far better off learning from London's experience than New York's, in my view." Probably true, but the lesson from both is that they had strong advocates unwilling to accept 'you can't do that'. New York clearly has the (legal) ability/willingness to 'just do stuff' that is lacking in Edinburgh. London has TfL which hasn't always been as 'pro cycling' as it sometimes pretends/takes credit for. Edinburgh (THISisEdinburgh) is way the best city/LA in Scotland for wanting to do cycle stuff. Of course 40 years of Spokes helps a lot + recent years effects of PoP. The current key politicians, Burns and Hinds are generally in favour (and actively say so) of improving conditions for walking and cycling, but there's an election next year... wrighrkuk on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-225413 Wed, 20 Jul 2016 13:40:30 +0000 wrighrkuk 225413@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Thanks for the reference to the Invisible Visible Man here. I know that Janet Sadik-Khan has generated a lot of publicity for her efforts to improve things in New York. But I really can't overstate how modest the actual achievements were. New York installed a number of showcase facilities. But there's no real network and many of the facilities include "mixing zones" at intersections that mean cyclists are suddenly battling with fast-moving, turning drivers. You can imagine which side wins most of those. I wrote about the planning problems that have beset New York <a href="http://invisiblevisibleman.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/a-cancelled-bike-lane-crowded-f-train.html">here</a> and about the corrupt system that's created a lot of the problems <a href="http://invisiblevisibleman.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/thick-bridge-cables-police-placard.html">here</a>. The ultimate test of New York's efforts, meanwhile, has to be how many people cycle. Only around 1 per cent of commuter trips are by bike, against around 4 per cent in London. Edinburgh (where I used to live and cycle) would be far better off learning from London's experience than New York's, in my view. chdot on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-225355 Tue, 19 Jul 2016 16:49:55 +0000 chdot 225355@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @Rosie "London has almost 50 percent more bike journeys per day than New York but fewer bike deaths." Actually - London has almost 50 percent more bike journeys per day than New York AND fewer bike deaths. Campaigners always believed/imagined/hoped/expected 'more bikes = fewer casualties'. Rosie on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-225350 Tue, 19 Jul 2016 15:06:17 +0000 Rosie 225350@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @ih - My comment was overladen with sarcasm. ih on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-225349 Tue, 19 Jul 2016 14:53:01 +0000 ih 225349@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ For the sake of clarity, maybe I should have included an ironic wink emoji at the end of my last post. Rosie on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-225348 Tue, 19 Jul 2016 14:49:00 +0000 Rosie 225348@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @ih - Only in America... mgj on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-225346 Tue, 19 Jul 2016 14:31:29 +0000 mgj 225346@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Robert is a friend of a friend. You might be interested in <a href="http://invisiblevisibleman.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/a-prosecutors-phone-call-remembrance-of.html" rel="nofollow">http://invisiblevisibleman.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/a-prosecutors-phone-call-remembrance-of.html</a> ih on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-225345 Tue, 19 Jul 2016 13:58:26 +0000 ih 225345@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " One reason the network, built almost entirely over the course of the past two decades, remains so piecemeal is because New York gives its community boards, unelected groups of local cranks, the power to decide where bike lanes start and stop. " Hmm. Glad we don't have that problem here. Rosie on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-225344 Tue, 19 Jul 2016 13:38:34 +0000 Rosie 225344@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Gives a less rosy picture of New York cycling:- For a glimpse of what could be, we can look to London, where Boris Johnson—yes, that one—helped push through a network of bike lanes physically separated from traffic. (Financial Times reporter Robert Wright recently wrote a delightful dispatch on the differences between riding in the two cities.) London has almost 50 percent more bike journeys per day than New York but fewer bike deaths. Most remarkably, the ratio of cars to bikes in central London has fallen from 11-to-1 in 2000 to 2-to-1 in 2014. In three years, if trends continue, more people will be biking to central London than driving. <a href="http://www.slate.com/articles/business/metropolis/2016/07/bicycling_needs_two_things_to_be_safer_better_infrastructure_and_better.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.slate.com/articles/business/metropolis/2016/07/bicycling_needs_two_things_to_be_safer_better_infrastructure_and_better.html</a> Stickman on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-219212 Mon, 09 May 2016 09:23:42 +0000 Stickman 219212@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Just finished reading this at the weekend. Fascinating stuff, and very relevant to what's going on here (London CSH, Roseburn path etc). If anyone wants to borrow it then let me know. LivM on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-214810 Sat, 19 Mar 2016 17:18:21 +0000 LivM 214810@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @chdot re: street without cars... CEC atlas has 1940s aerial photograph map overlay. It's spooky... <a href="http://edinburghcouncilmaps.info/atlas/cecatlas.html">CEC atlas</a> chdot on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-214794 Sat, 19 Mar 2016 13:19:19 +0000 chdot 214794@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Just started reading the book. She got the job because the City had started working on this - <a href="http://www.nyc.gov/html/planyc/html/home/home.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.nyc.gov/html/planyc/html/home/home.shtml</a> and her ideas (at interview) fitted in with the unannounced plan. chdot on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-214294 Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:50:27 +0000 chdot 214294@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " The last great transportation idea we had from Washington was the Interstate Highway system, and that was 1956. And now we are in 2016 and I think what you’re starting to see is the innovation is really coming at the city level and it’s kind of bottom-up. And I think that cities are really at the frontline of the future of our streets. The federal government can certainly help and I think we need real leadership. " <a href="http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/13/11208338/janette-sadik-khan-street-fight-book-nyc-transportation-technology" rel="nofollow">http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/13/11208338/janette-sadik-khan-street-fight-book-nyc-transportation-technology</a> chdot on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-214131 Sun, 13 Mar 2016 17:22:24 +0000 chdot 214131@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " Ever wondered what your town, or your street would look like without any cars? A digital mock-up of Capthorne Avenue in Harrow (link is external) shows just how much public space is given over to private cars, and what that space would look like replaced with a suburban park. " <a href="http://road.cc/content/news/182435-suburban-street-reimagined-without-cars" rel="nofollow">http://road.cc/content/news/182435-suburban-street-reimagined-without-cars</a> chdot on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-214120 Sun, 13 Mar 2016 12:06:57 +0000 chdot 214120@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ See Bike Life Edinburgh thread for useful stats. <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16153" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16153</a> chdot on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-214119 Sun, 13 Mar 2016 11:55:25 +0000 chdot 214119@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ One thing I don't know is how much 'can't be done' because of UK and/or Scottish laws. The recent developments with the parking on pavements legislation is really useful and could help with changes (if necessary) to make other things easier to do. One thing that NYC did is try things with barrels, planters, and paint (and altering where necessary). All these things were suggested for Leith Walk and the response was 'too difficult' with an underlying suggestion of 'not allowed'. At the very least, temporary trials must be done for Haymarket and Roseburn. Caving in to protesters would be bad but delivering something less than optimal would be worse. chdot on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-214117 Sun, 13 Mar 2016 11:34:47 +0000 chdot 214117@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I generally agree with your assessment of 'systems', 'people' etc. BUT "we're asking CEC to do something really really really difficult" That's essential not true. 'All' (in my opinion) that's being asked of officials is to implement various council policies about walking, cycling, PT use and motor vehicle reduction. Part of this is accepting that it's NOT all about 'maintaining traffic flow'. I think even Lesley Hinds is realising that the 'traffic flow philosophy' is part of the problem. I say "even" because she has been stuck in the vicious/impossible circle of doing more for walk/cycle while 'minimising inconvenience to motorists'. Can't be done and shouldn't be tolerated as the political default of 'drivers are voters'. The "circle" is politicians saying 'we want something done' and (many) officials saying 'it can't be done' - or at least 'it can't be done without upsetting some people you don't want us to upset'. There seems to be real evidence (in Edinburgh as well as elsewhere) that 'the people' are ahead of politicians/officials in wanting something different/better. rbrtwtmn on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-214116 Sun, 13 Mar 2016 11:12:39 +0000 rbrtwtmn 214116@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I think about it like this... we're asking CEC to do something really really really difficult. The fact that there's plenty of public support for change doesn't make it an easy thing to do. What this means is that what's needed is individual council staff and councillors who have the skill, inclination and nerve to carve themselves a political space in which they can really really stick their necks out... risking their careers and sanity in pursuit of something that may or may not come off. As Janette Sadik-Khan puts it "The bike backlash of early 2011 were the toughest months I’ve ever endured professionally." Don't anyone underestimate this. I've seen plenty of people in situations like this (outside transport) try for change and suffer real significant consequence for the attempt. Don't read this to imply that I'm all on the side of the poor downtrodden council staff. I'm not. If you go into a job promising that you have the professional skills to design roads and city spaces properly then you have a duty to deliver on that. No question. And I'm not in the least sympathetic about any council's or individual's failure to really try... but I am sympathetic to the failure of individuals. In situations like this it takes real guts, courage, and a really deep level of political skill (small 'p') to do your job properly. People who have the guts and skills are pretty rare. In the past I've worked with very large groups of people who wanted to do things differently from how the system around them worked... There were some who were brave enough - but failed on the politics (doing things differently alienates colleagues however 'right' you are). There were some who had the capability, but not the inclination (it's only a small proportion of people who have that character). The ones who were both brave enough and capable enough to navigating the politics of this were very very rare and worth their weight in gold. Which I guess leads me to thinking who there is out there in CEC that we should - despite their failings - be offering support to? Is anyone really sticking their neck out? If so, Janette Sadik-Khan says that it's the public support for changes that really tipped the balance in the end. chdot on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-214108 Sun, 13 Mar 2016 02:01:42 +0000 chdot 214108@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " In my first months on the job in 2007, I visited Copenhagen to see how the Danes build bikeways. We toured the city with Jan Gehl, the globally influential architect and urban planner. Gehl pioneered the idea of designing cities from the perspective of pedestrians and cyclists. This perspective, according to Gehl, generates the kind of intimacy and street life that makes cities attractive places. When I returned we moved quickly to implement many bike lanes protected by a lane of parked cars. " Obviously the last sentence is the most important. CEC has had the Gehl advice. It's unwilling/unable to do "quickly". Maybe the time is coming. Maybe. rbrtwtmn on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-214106 Sun, 13 Mar 2016 00:40:18 +0000 rbrtwtmn 214106@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Haven't listened to the talk yet - but read this earlier. Well worth a read. <a href="http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/03/bike-wars-are-over-and-the-bikes-won.html#" rel="nofollow">http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/03/bike-wars-are-over-and-the-bikes-won.html#</a> amir on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-214042 Fri, 11 Mar 2016 15:24:29 +0000 amir 214042@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "I cringe whenever cyclists bring up the environment as a reason for cycle infrastructure. It just adds to the image of cyclists as tree hugging weirdos." I hope that myth is disappearing. It is scientists who are saying we need to "save the environment". There is support from mainstream politicians, at least in words if not actions. Nowadays those that advocate opposing views tend to be seen as weird flat-earthers or creepy selfish sorts. Of course sadly there's a difference between image and actually doing something. chdot on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-214039 Fri, 11 Mar 2016 15:01:00 +0000 chdot 214039@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "I don't cycle to save the planet. I cycle because its fun" I might have done once, but there's really not much chance of saving the planet in the conventional sense of rational use of resources, a bit more 'fairness' (just a bit) etc etc. So I'll just keep living in a (fairly) civilised (and insulated) part of the planet and hope that things carry on without the lights going off too often or shelves getting too empty. And ride my bikes for fun. And continuing to make more people realise that riding bikes is fun. Better infrastructure WILL help - but ThisISedinburgh so don't expect too much too soon. Never liked sandals. Wilmington's Cow on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-214038 Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:52:38 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 214038@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "I don't cycle to save the planet. I cycle because its fun" This. It's a nice by-product that it's environmentally friendly, but really it's just so much more fun on the bike. Even with close calls and so on, there's always at least one thing on every ride that makes you smile. chdot on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-214037 Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:52:21 +0000 chdot 214037@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <a href="https://www.ted.com/talks/janette_sadik_khan_new_york_s_streets_not_so_mean_any_more" rel="nofollow">https://www.ted.com/talks/janette_sadik_khan_new_york_s_streets_not_so_mean_any_more</a> Of course America has cities where you can try stuff without too much consultation or TROs. Edinburgh did that with George St with an experimental tro then didn't have the power to leave/amend! chdot on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-214035 Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:47:55 +0000 chdot 214035@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Ooh now a book. There's a good tedtalk I saw a while back. I think I once asked her on Twitter if she'd like to visit Edinburgh. Didn't get a response (didn't really expect to). Rob on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-214033 Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:45:32 +0000 Rob 214033@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "The whole beard and sandals image of cycling, as unfair and projected as that often is, is deeply unhelpful." I cringe whenever cyclists bring up the environment as a reason for cycle infrastructure. It just adds to the image of cyclists as tree hugging weirdos. I don't cycle to save the planet. I cycle because its fun. Its also by far the most efficient way to get to work. I were right about that saddle on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-214031 Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:31:18 +0000 I were right about that saddle 214031@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ It's a good article because it's by a hard-nosed capitalist who's actually sorted stuff in the world epicenter of capitalism. We'd all like proper infrastructure to be built for the right reasons, but PoP might be better to take the message to Derek Mackay that our streets are an underperforming asset while they're covered in cars. His inaction is costing Scotland serious money that could plug the yawning chasm in our finan...etc etc. The whole beard and sandals image of cycling, as unfair and projected as that often is, is deeply unhelpful. PS on "How cycling changed New York" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16151#post-214027 Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:23:07 +0000 PS 214027@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ As referenced in the Roseburn to Leith thread, here's a really good article on Janette Sadik-Khan's work in New York: <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/mar/11/cycling-fights-new-york-mean-streets-janette-sadik-khan">Streetfighting woman: inside the story of how cycling changed New York</a> Lots of pertinent stuff in there: “Transportation is not an ideology, it’s not a left or right thing. It’s about taking a look at the capital asset we have and using it in the most effective way possible. For so long the way we measured transportation, the way we measured our streets, had been about the flow of traffic, how fast was traffic going, which ignores all the other ways a street is used. Our streets have been in this kind if suspended animation. They’re seen as there for all time. The result is that you’ve got dangerous, congested, economically under-performing streets. That strikes at the heart of the liveability and competitiveness of a city.” The book sounds good.