http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Tag: Silverknowes - Recent Posts en Tue, 19 May 2026 18:42:38 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=6#post-280870 Mon, 23 Apr 2018 17:05:13 +0000 Harts Cyclery 280870@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Rumble strip paint has now been installed. I was sent a video by someone today and it certainly seems to have improved compliance. Keep your eyes peeled on how drivers are behaving and feedback if you see corner cutting coming back. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=6#post-275788 Fri, 23 Feb 2018 14:44:07 +0000 davidsonsdave 275788@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Harts Cyclery: Thanks for the updates! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=6#post-275720 Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:00:46 +0000 Harts Cyclery 275720@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Further email saying that they will paint rumble strip as soon as contractor returns to restore original poor paint. Soon, in other words. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=6#post-275715 Thu, 22 Feb 2018 15:39:50 +0000 Harts Cyclery 275715@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>PS. Email reply from engineer is on page 5. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=6#post-275714 Thu, 22 Feb 2018 15:39:10 +0000 Harts Cyclery 275714@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The main issue to putting an edge in is the drainage, as mentioned previously. The roundabout is shallow and the only run-off is to the centre of the roundabout. There is no drainage at the perimeter.</p> <p>Therefore, without significant redesign that would incur large expense, they can't introduce an actually hard edge in that area. The engineer also said that spaced orcas would only last 5 minutes with the buses trampling them all the time.</p> <p>It looks as though the rumble strip could be introduced quite quickly. Let's see how that goes.</p> <p>Of course, there's still a very big case for a proper crossing at end of Silverknowes Road. Something to take up with the Community Council? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-275713 Thu, 22 Feb 2018 15:33:22 +0000 Harts Cyclery 275713@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Got a reply to my email from the design engineer.</p> <p>Excerpt:</p> <p>I would recommend taking an incremental approach to the problem with the next step to enhance the markings by introducing a solid white line around the perimeter of the hatched area to replace the existing broken line and also include ribs on the solid white line, similar to that you find on the edge of the motorways which gives vibration and audible signals to drivers when driven upon. This would give them warning that they are entering an area that is not normally meant to be driven on.</p> <p>The next step after that if proven to be ineffective would be to make the hatched area more visible using a brightly coloured surface treatment.</p> <p>The existing markings are due to be renewed as they are not to the required standard and are already showing signs of excessive wear, the introduction of the solid white line could be done at the same time to reduce costs but more importantly could be done relatively quickly. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-275644 Wed, 21 Feb 2018 19:43:07 +0000 Blueth 275644@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I have a pile of them dating back to the Seventies :-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-275611 Wed, 21 Feb 2018 11:09:56 +0000 teddybears 275611@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Blueth; you're right. It was me that mentioned legislation.</p> <p>Don't know when you last looked at a Highway Code but my 2007 version says exactly the same! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-275574 Wed, 21 Feb 2018 01:07:19 +0000 Blueth 275574@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>But hatching on the outside of the kerb would prevent cyclists using that area as the Code applies to cyclists too. I really don't see the logic of the hatching at this location - either way it brings cyclists and motorists in to conflict. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-275549 Tue, 20 Feb 2018 18:45:18 +0000 HankChief 275549@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>At the <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11930">tram depot entrance</a> on the Gogar Roundabout there is hatching and a raised bumpy white line but still the majority of drivers cut the corner.</p> <p>It would have been better had they put the hatching on the outside of the kerb so you had a more reliable vehicle path when you are crossing on foot or bike </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-275548 Tue, 20 Feb 2018 18:20:27 +0000 ih 275548@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>IMO this hatching has been inappropriately applied. Traditionally, hatching has been used to separate traffic from hazards (either traffic coming in the opposite direction, or fixed obstacles) and is therefore quite easily understood and in general, complied with. This hatching (which I've only seen on the video clip above) does not perform that function. I'm not sure what function it is supposed to perform. Just as cyclists and pedestrians will create desire lines, so will drivers, that could easily have been predicted. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-275546 Tue, 20 Feb 2018 18:04:01 +0000 Blueth 275546@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I didn't mention legislation, but the Highway Code which used to say, with reference to hatchings <em>do not drive over these areas if you can avoid doing so</em> with no reference to the nature of the border surrounding the hatching.</p> <p>It now does differentiate between solid and broken border and, with reference to the latter <em>you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so </em>, which to me is a relaxation giving more scope to use these areas.</p> <p>I would say there is a difference in meaning between "necessary" and "avoiding doing so". </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-275520 Tue, 20 Feb 2018 12:56:58 +0000 teddybears 275520@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>legislation hasn't changed. Always been able to dive in hatched area if necessary.<br /> I doubt if those involved are aware of the differences in hatching as you describe.</p> <p>This roundabout has been a shambles from start to finish </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-275517 Tue, 20 Feb 2018 12:52:13 +0000 Blueth 275517@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I see that the rules about what hatching means have changed since I last looked - the Highway Code seems to change without any publicity these days, I always used to buy the latest edition.</p> <p>Whether or not motorists should drive on this particular hatching does, I suppose, depend upon the definition of "necessary". As the hatching is bounded by broken lines then it should not be driven over "unless it is necessary". I daresay there is an argument that it is "necessary" to drive over the hatching in order, for example, to give good clearance to a cyclist on the left.</p> <p>Of course, if the hatching had a solid border, then lorries and buses technically could not drive over it. Given that it is presumably there to allow their passage then broken lines it has to be, </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-275515 Tue, 20 Feb 2018 11:48:31 +0000 davidsonsdave 275515@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"The hatched inner circle is completely inaffective at discouraging drivers from driving over it".</p> <p>IMO the only change is that now the drivers are more used to the wider, smoother surface so they now have a better idea of how little they need to slow down for it. </p> <p>The build-outs for the crossing don't reduce speeds at all because the carriageway of the roundabout is wider than it was previously so there is less need to turn around it, assuming that you cut across the hatched markings as most drivers do. However, they do make it feel less exposed when crossing there.</p> <p>The only saving grace is the raised zebra that was then put in after Harts got involved.</p> <p>You can already see from Reggie Tricker's video how worn the hatched markings have become from drivers constantly going over them.</p> <p>IMO the cheapest and simplest way to solve this problem is to repaint the hatched markings using the raised paint used on motorways and the like. The slight discomfort of bumping over them would probably be enough to encorage drivers to follow the correct line. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-275486 Mon, 19 Feb 2018 18:36:33 +0000 Harts Cyclery 275486@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I've emailed the engineer Martin and I met with regarding the crossing of the painted area. I must confess, I was under the impression from our meeting that this would be some sort of kerbed edge, which would discourage casual mounting. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-274746 Thu, 08 Feb 2018 21:55:59 +0000 HankChief 274746@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"The hatched inner circle is completely inaffective at discouraging drivers from driving over it"</em></p> <p>How have things settled down?</p> <p>Here's a <a href="https://twitter.com/reggietricker/status/961703108631031808">video</a> of the finished produce </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-269798 Fri, 15 Dec 2017 11:38:21 +0000 Ed1 269798@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In Livingston when alighting the train at Livi south it is a 30 mph yet they boast the speed up to 50 mph just for a roundabout then back to 30 mph. The roundabout is off the A71 , not on it, so no reason for it be 50 in middle of town. The quality of west Lothian councils thinking makes Edinburgh look thoughtful. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-269795 Fri, 15 Dec 2017 11:35:00 +0000 NiallA 269795@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Min - that might be a little extreme... ;-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-269695 Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:25:25 +0000 Min 269695@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>(Then following the worst offenders home of course...)</em></p> <p>Yes, drone strikes are the way forward. They'll soon get the message. ;-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-269694 Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:13:39 +0000 chdot 269694@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“Perhaps "guerilla-camera placement" needs to be added to the set of cycle-campaiging tools”</p> <p>Wonder if such places are ideal for drone-filming?</p> <p>Unlikely to affect driver behaviour and good for the ‘bigger picture’.</p> <p>(Then following the worst offenders home of course...) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-269685 Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:42:08 +0000 NiallA 269685@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Perhaps "guerilla-camera placement" needs to be added to the set of cycle-campaiging tools (like human bollarded lanes etc). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-269683 Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:34:43 +0000 davidsonsdave 269683@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>When I was passing the cars were battering around it way too fast, which was why I stopped to film. Once I got the camera out, they were all on thier best behaviour! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-269681 Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:30:30 +0000 NiallA 269681@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I was looking at this the other day (pre-hatching), and my reaction was "they've made it faster!". The hatching is probably nudging people to take the outer lane slightly (think driver behaviour was worse when I watched for a few minutes the other day, but it also wasn't raining/ icy then), but still...</p> <p>Guess it shows that small details of execution are all important. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-269679 Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:25:28 +0000 davidsonsdave 269679@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Things seem to be a bit behind with the works on Silverknowes Roundabout. As of this morning, the zebra crossings are still not functional and to my mind, it looks unlikely that everything will be completed this side of Christmas.</p> <p>My continuing concern is the level of traffic calming that the design provides. Because they reduced the size of the inner circle, the roundabout is now wider than it was previously which means cars have less roundabout to go around. </p> <p>The hatched inner circle is completely inaffective at discouraging drivers from driving over it - almost as if red chips and paint aren't a substitute for real infrastructure. It might me improved if the council used the same raised paint which is used on motorways on stuff they don't want you to drive over?</p> <p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEhEKxuU7Q8" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEhEKxuU7Q8</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-268414 Fri, 01 Dec 2017 13:19:20 +0000 HankChief 268414@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Cllr Lang update</p> <p><em>"SILVERKNOWES ROUNDABOUT UPDATE<br /> We were pleased to see the traffic lights management removed at the Silverknowes roundabout last week.</p> <p>The remainder of the surfacing is (weather permitting) due to be completed by Monday 4th December and there may be some temporary traffic management off peak until that point.</p> <p>The new zebra crossings should be functional by 8th December and all remaining works should be complete and the contractor off site by the 15th December"</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-268306 Thu, 30 Nov 2017 15:16:32 +0000 davidsonsdave 268306@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Further to my message yesterday, all work on the Silverknowes Roundabout has ceased. I assume that this is because of the festive embargo? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-268041 Tue, 28 Nov 2017 16:12:00 +0000 davidsonsdave 268041@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>All the roads are now open but cones still out as they are still to complete the zebra crossings and do something with the inner "turning space" of the roundabout. The segregated cycle lane looked complete but I was in a rush so didn't fully check. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-268036 Tue, 28 Nov 2017 15:32:17 +0000 HankChief 268036@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I hear that the traffic lights have moved from the Silverknowes Roundabout.</p> <p>Anyone been down to take a look? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18115&page=5#post-266254 Sat, 11 Nov 2017 22:31:33 +0000 HankChief 266254@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Work seems to be coming on well - still a mess of roadworks but you can see where the segregated cycleway behind the bus parking will be and the '@Harts cyclery' Zebra crossing. </p>