http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Tag: strict liability - Recent Posts en Wed, 13 May 2026 01:49:01 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11458#post-130242 Sun, 27 Oct 2013 11:26:27 +0000 Edinburgh Cycle Training 130242@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>done.</p> <p>thanks Kim </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11458#post-130082 Fri, 25 Oct 2013 14:38:16 +0000 Kim 130082@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Alison Johnstone, has put a Motion (<a href="http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/28877.aspx?SearchType=Advance&amp;ReferenceNumbers=S4M-07934&amp;ResultsPerPage=10">S4M-07934</a>) to the Scottish Parliament on Strict Liability:</p> <p>"That the Parliament believes that the number of fatalities and injuries to pedestrians and cyclists on Scotland's roads, including in the Lothian region, is unacceptably high; recognises that the Scottish Government has funded a number of national cycle safety initiatives; notes that versions of a strict liability rule exist in the civil law of many European countries; notes that a number of walking and cycling organisations support the introduction of such a law in Scotland; understands that a petition by Cycle Law Scotland on this topic has secured nearly 5,000 signatures; considers that a stricter liability rule could have positive benefits for the safety of more vulnerable road users as part of a package of measures, and would welcome further debate on this proposal."</p> <p>Please <a href="http://writetothem.com">write to your MSPs</a> and ask them to support this motion. If we can get enough support Scotland could take another step toward become a cycle friend nation, like those on the mainland of Europe.</p> <p>Then we should take <a href="https://twitter.com/thegreenplace/status/393337523579396096">Alasdair Reid</a> advice that "Scotland should take inspiration from Copenhagen for our cities and Finland for rural cycle ways". </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10881#post-121152 Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:45:26 +0000 Greenroofer 121152@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This was published yesterday: not sure if it's been mentioned here already.</p> <p>"This week marks the beginning of the Nice Way Code, a government campaign to improve road safety in Scotland by encouraging us all to behave better on the roads. </p> <p>It’s costing £500,000 and will be led by Scotland’s Transport Minister, Keith Brown. With recent figures from Transport Scotland reporting the deaths of nine cyclists on Scotland’s roads this year so far, and the total number of cyclists killed rising for the fifth year in a row, is it not reasonable to expect more than a few soft words of advice from the minister on the issue of road safety?</p> <p>I think the time has come for the government to take much tougher action. After all, the government has it in its power to do something far more meaningful and substantive by directing policy and legislative focus..."</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/brenda-mitchell-a-liability-regime-could-prevent-cyclist-deaths-1-3033590">Link to article</a></p> <p>Don't read the comments: it's the usual crowd of ranting and frothing about the usual things... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9942#post-107681 Mon, 15 Apr 2013 09:56:20 +0000 Instography 107681@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I presume by "survey" Lesley Riddoch is referring to the Scottish Household Survey. Actually, it's not true that 36% of adults have a bike. 36% of adults live in households with at least one bike that an adult could use. It's an important distinction since there can be more adults than bikes, substantially reducing the apparent disparity between ownership and use.</p> <p>And it's not just 4% using bikes regularly on the road. There's about 5% of adults cycle to work or education as their main mode or as a regular alternative mode. We don't know if they cycle on the road. Even with Scotland's dismal infrastructure I can get from home to work (16 miles) and barely touch a road. It's not all fear of being run over.</p> <p>On top of the 5% commuting, there's another 10% of adults who regularly cycle recreationally, although we don't know if they cycle on roads either. But 15% is much more than 4%. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9942#post-107677 Mon, 15 Apr 2013 09:23:50 +0000 cc 107677@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, there are some appalling driving instructors out there. I've had a driving instructor leap out of his pupil's car and aggressively yell abuse at me because I was politely waiting behind the car rather than pass it on the wrong side of the road at a blind junction. They were trying reversing-round-a-corner. If there's a vehicle behind you and you keep on with your manoeuvre, it's an immediate fail, or so <em>my</em> driving instructor told me.</p> <p>PS: I'm all for strict liability and I wish the campaign lots of luck. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9942#post-107671 Mon, 15 Apr 2013 08:58:34 +0000 Instography 107671@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I find it more worrying that 25 per cent of driving instructors seem not to believe that learner drivers should be taught to be more aware of cyclists. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9942#post-107667 Mon, 15 Apr 2013 08:42:54 +0000 Cyclingmollie 107667@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"The last survey found 36% of Scots have a bike in the garage – but only 4% use it regularly on the road. The main reason for the disparity – not rain, not hills not even bad hair. It’s fear of being struck by cars."</em></p> <p>Good to hear a BBC journalist with an informed view (cf Newsnight Scotland). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9942#post-107663 Mon, 15 Apr 2013 07:29:47 +0000 gembo 107663@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sounds good to me, I imagine there will be some comments when the newspapers pick this up? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9942#post-107662 Mon, 15 Apr 2013 03:50:23 +0000 olivercw 107662@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Brenda Mitchell: Strict alternative to mayhem on our roads and in court Scotsman Monday 15 April<br /> <a href="http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/scotland/brenda-mitchell-strict-alternative-to-mayhem-on-our-roads-and-in-court-1-2894845">http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/scotland/brenda-mitchell-strict-alternative-to-mayhem-on-our-roads-and-in-court-1-2894845</a></p> <p>Facebook page<br /> <a href="https://www.facebook.com/pages/Campaign-for-Strict-Liability-Road-Share/325490610906406">https://www.facebook.com/pages/Campaign-for-Strict-Liability-Road-Share/325490610906406</a></p> <p>Twitter account <a href="https://twitter.com/roadshare">https://twitter.com/roadshare</a></p> <p>Web page <a href="http://www.cycling-accident-compensation.co.uk/strict-liability.aspx">http://www.cycling-accident-compensation.co.uk/strict-liability.aspx</a></p> <p>PRESS RELEASE</p> <p>Strictly embargoed for Monday April 15, 2013</p> <p><strong>Cycling Campaign to bring Scotland in line with the rest of Europe</strong></p> <p>A campaign is being launched to bring Scotland into line with the rest of Europe by introducing strict liability to Scots civil law for road accidents involving cyclists. </p> <p>Strict liability will ensure that cyclists and other vulnerable road users involved in road traffic accidents are compensated fairly and quickly, by establishing a hierarchical structure to identify responsibility.</p> <p>Cyclists seriously injured in a road traffic accident and the families of those killed typically battle through the legal process for well over two years before receiving compensation or the full and proper medical care for their injuries. This is despite the fact that almost all cases brought to court are found against the motorist and in favour of the cyclist. </p> <p>Lynda Myles of Edinburgh lost her son Craig Newton in April 2011. He was fatally injured in a collision with a City of Edinburgh Council vehicle. His bicycle was struck by the lorry and in all probability he fell underneath the wheels sustaining fatal injury. The case is still going through the legal system. </p> <p>Jamie Aarons of Glasgow had to fight through the Courts to obtain compensation after a taxi driver who, parked on her nearside, opened his door into her path. She had no opportunity to take evasive action causing damage to her bike and helmet. The legal costs grew to nearly £20,000. </p> <p>Those leading the Campaign for Strict Liability: Road Share say that it is the only proper response of a mature and civilised nation and that Scotland should take a lead if it is serious about reducing the 156 serious injuries sustained by cyclists on Scottish roads in 2011. Campaigners believe that not only will it help to resolve liability quickly, but it will also create a cultural shift in driver behaviour, cutting the number of accidents.</p> <p>Brenda Mitchell, a personal injury lawyer of 25 years’ experience and a passionate cyclist, said:</p> <p>“The UK is out of step with Europe as only one of a small number EU countries alongside Portugal, Malta and Ireland that does not operate a system of strict liability for vulnerable road users. </p> <p>“As a consequence, our current system expects those injured or the families of those killed to go through an often harsh and protracted process to gain much needed treatment, care or compensation. On the Continent, strict liability is seen as an integral factor of cycle safety and Scotland has the power to introduce this principle into civil law to demonstrate its credentials as a civilised, cycle-friendly nation. In those EU countries who have strict liability, accidents involving cyclists are also significantly lower.</p> <p>“We believe that as the Scottish Government promotes cycling as a means for good health and energy sustainability, it should also take a lead in providing cyclists with proper legal protection.”</p> <p>The campaign has been launched by Cycle Law Scotland and is backed by both cycling and motoring groups in Scotland, including CTC Scotland, SPOKES, Pedal on Parliament and RED driving school. A petition will be launched shortly and the aim is to introduce a Member’s Bill into the Scottish Parliament. </p> <p>Brenda adds:</p> <p>“The campaign sets out to highlight the dangers cyclists face from motorists and help facilitate a change in attitudes amongst road users to one based on mutual respect and understanding. Over the course of the next two months, we are running an online petition and forums to share knowledge and advice.”</p> <p>Richard Lyle, MSP for Central Scotland, supports the campaign. He said:</p> <p>“The laws around strict liability should be looked at as we work to make Scotland a cycle-friendly nation. </p> <p>“For too long, strict liability for road users has been dismissed as too difficult or too contentious a law, but in a modern society that sees cycling as an integral part of a healthy lifestyle and sustainable economy, it is important to put this debate back on the agenda. </p> <p>“If strict liability can be shown to help improve road safety and provide protection for those injured, then Scotland should not be afraid to take a lead and change the law.”</p> <p>Lesley Riddoch, the award winning journalist, commentator and broadcaster has also backed the campaign. </p> <p>Lesley said: </p> <p>“We know for the good of health, happiness and the planet it makes sense to get to school, work and shop on bikes. The last survey found 36% of Scots have a bike in the garage – but only 4% use it regularly on the road. The main reason for the disparity – not rain, not hills not even bad hair. It’s fear of being struck by cars. </p> <p>“Other European nations countries massively increased cycle use by building cycle paths that are separated from roads and pedestrians – and by changing the law so drivers are presumed to be in the wrong if there’s an accident. Having cycled in Oslo and Copenhagen I can testify to the “kid glove treatment” given by drivers to cyclists and pedestrians. </p> <p>“The “strict liability” law is rarely used– it’s changed driving behaviour so profoundly. Just like seatbelts we will look back one day and wonder how on earth we ever tolerated the mayhem on our roads before we put the onus on drivers to take more care.”</p> <p>Facebook page <a href="https://www.facebook.com/pages/Campaign-for-Strict-Liability-Road-Share/325490610906406" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/pages/Campaign-for-Strict-Liability-Road-Share/325490610906406</a><br /> Twitter account <a href="https://twitter.com/roadshare" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/roadshare</a><br /> Web page <a href="http://www.cycling-accident-compensation.co.uk/strict-liability.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.cycling-accident-compensation.co.uk/strict-liability.aspx</a></p> <p>Notes to Editors</p> <p>1. The Campaign for Strict Liability: Road Share has been initiated by Cycle Law Scotland and has the support of cycling groups Pedal on Parliament, SPOKES and CTC Scotland, the driving school RED and politicians, including Richard Lyle, MSP for Central Scotland.<br /> 2. Cycle Law Scotland is headed up by Brenda Mitchell a personal injury lawyer of 25 years standing and a passionate cyclist.<br /> 3. In all cases handled by CLS primary fault and responsibility always rests with the motorised vehicle.<br /> 4. In 2011, the last year when data is available, 156 cyclists were seriously injured on Scotland’s roads (ref. Transport Scotland).<br /> 5. Cyclists injured in accidents involving a car currently wait, on average, 6-9 months to receive compensation, when the case is relatively straightforward. In serious or fatal injuries, the cyclists or their families can wait in excess of 2 years before their case is decided.<br /> 6. Evidence from cycling groups on the Continent show strict liability to be an integral part of cycle safety, increasing mutual respect between motorists, cyclists and pedestrians. The UK is only one of a small number of EU countries, along with Portugal, Malta and Ireland, that does not operate a Strict Liability system for road users.<br /> 7. Research by RED Driving School found that 75 per cent of driving instructors believe that learner drivers should be taught to be more aware of cyclists.<br /> 8. All enquiries, please call Fiona Miller or Elizabeth Lambley, Indigo, 0131 554 1230 </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5588#post-59911 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 17:57:50 +0000 Kim 59911@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It is worth giving it another go, this was the out come of<a href="www.kimharding.net/blog/?p=1646"> my last attempt</a>. Since then I have found more about the way it works in NL, there is it only strict if the victim is below the age of 14 years. At 14 and over it there is a presumption the driver is liable unless the driver can show the cyclist was "reckless", in which cast the liability is 50/50. However, the Dutch say this is <em>not</em> a major factor in their roads being safer, infrastructure is far more important. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5588#post-59870 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 15:28:33 +0000 crowriver 59870@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@slowcoach, the problem with that document is that it basically says, as long as the company/self-employed trader carries out a risk assessment, then that's about it.</p> <p>So when the HSE turn up after an HGV has crushed a cyclist to death, the employer says "Ah, but we carried out a risk assessment, here's a copy. Also our H&amp;S policy regarding work related driving." So that's alright then.</p> <p>If they did apply the rules of liability as they are construed for workplace premises then that would be different! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5588#post-59856 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 14:32:47 +0000 Instography 59856@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm willing to forgive his poor grasp of the law. His cycling, not so much. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5588#post-59849 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:53:03 +0000 splitshift 59849@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>as I understand H+S, everyone has a duty of care to everyone else , as well as themselves , be carefull, whoever and whatever we are doing !<br /> scott </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5588#post-59841 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:35:49 +0000 Dave 59841@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ah, I see. To be honest I didn't read much of the linked article because firstly, he sounds like he rides like a tit, and secondly, he seemed to be confusing civil and criminal law. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5588#post-59834 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:24:56 +0000 Instography 59834@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Dave said "I'm not sure that I follow this." I was responding to the broad structure of his argument which seems to me to say, 'regardless of the cyclist's behaviour (using his own examples of his own behaviour) we should just assume that the driver is at fault'. That seems to me, staying within his own argument, to make the cyclist like an infant who cannot reasonably be expected to understand or anticipate the consequences of his behaviour. On that basis, I would reject his whole argument even if there is a sentence or two that doesn't seem completely stupid.</p> <p>I generally don't have a problem with the idea that the bigger vehicle should carry a heavier responsibility to ensure that they don't present a danger to other road users in general and more squashy ones in particular. But I like to see adults take responsibility for themselves too and not just try to offload that onto someone else just because they happen to be bigger. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5588#post-59831 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:14:54 +0000 Roibeard 59831@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@crowriver - That would be <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5572#post-59543">me</a>, but here it is again:</p> <p><a href="http://lovelobicycles.blogspot.com/2012/02/what-if-hse-ran-dft-cyclesafe.html">HSE applied to roads</a></p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5588#post-59829 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:12:58 +0000 slowcoach 59829@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"The Health and Safety at Work etc Act 19742 requires you to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health and safety of all employees while at work. You also have a responsibility to ensure that others are not put at risk by your work-related driving activities. (Self-employed people have a similar responsibility to that of employers.)"<br /> from<br /> "Driving at work. Managing work-related road safety"<br /> <a href="http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg382.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg382.pdf</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5588#post-59823 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:01:38 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 59823@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Occupier's Liability (and Vicarious Liability for actions of employees) are actually two of the areas where strict liability does exist.</p> <p>In this case it would actually be possible to launch a civil action against the driver's employers (rather than the driver himself) to claim damages, relying on vicarious liability, thereby landing the employer with the burden of proving the driver did nothing wrong. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5588#post-59822 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:01:29 +0000 Dave 59822@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>But what he means is to 'place the burden of responsibility on drivers' in the way that you might say to an older child, '...but she's only three and you're a much bigger boy. You need to take more care.' I'm not so sure that I want to be infantilised.</em></p> <p>I'm not sure that I follow this. To draw on splitshift's example above - suppose you were walking around B&amp;Q and you were hit by a forklift truck.</p> <p>If B&amp;Q were a road, you'd get nothing unless you were prepared to take take B&amp;Q to court and could prove through a legal judgement that you didn't contribute to the collision.</p> <p>With a system of assumed liability, B&amp;Q would have to pay out whenever its forklift drivers ran over people in the aisles unless they could demonstrate that the customer had contributed to it.</p> <p>I don't see the latter as being infantilised; quite the reverse, it seems like the judgement of a mature society should be, when the overwhelming majority of people who are injured suffer as the result of driver error (what's the figure? 75, 85%?)</p> <p>Defences would always be available - in a topical reference, perhaps the cyclist had no lights (which would probably be as good as an automatic defence). Even better, because far fewer people would need to drag their cases through the courts, court time would be freed up to really address the contentious issues.</p> <p>All the win. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5588#post-59820 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 12:56:36 +0000 crowriver 59820@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Which does rather beg the question "What if we treated the road as a workplace?", just as we do factories, warehouses, building sites, etc. Someone posted a link about applying H&amp;S to the roads the other day, can't find it right now...</p> <p>It seems that professional drivers <em>are</em> the problem as far as cycling fatalities are concerned. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5588#post-59813 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 12:47:35 +0000 splitshift 59813@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>slight cat among pigeons,<br /> first thing that police officers ask any lorry driver involved in rta is GENERALLY, was there anything that you could have done to avooid accident ?If the answer is yes,then due care and attention/dangerous driving, etc,you are heck ! Hgv are GENERALLY assumed to be guilty unless proved otherwise !I couldnt listen to call Kay yesterday, my bood was boiling !In industry, a forklift hits a pedestrian, the fork lift driver is instantly assumed to be at fault......legally !<br /> scott. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5588#post-59808 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 12:38:17 +0000 Instography 59808@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Jeff kind of lost me when he started out with his sniggering confession that, broadly, he throws his bike into gaps between taxis, ignores red lights (although he sometimes shouts his own SMIDSY when he barrels through crossings) and takes what I would consider a cavalier approach to his visibility. As the starting point for arguing that we should presume the driver is always guilty it's not a very convincing one.</p> <p>I'm not sure that his musings on Bryan Simons' behaviour or anyone else, adds anything nor am I convinced of the logic of his conclusion that it's not his or anyone else's complacency that leads to accidents, it's cars. Just cars. The sheer volume of them. Actually, as Dave and others have pointed out, its HGVs and taxis.</p> <p>But what he means is to 'place the burden of responsibility on drivers' in the way that you might say to an older child, '...but she's only three and you're a much bigger boy. You need to take more care.' I'm not so sure that I want to be infantilised. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5588#post-59778 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 11:30:27 +0000 wingpig 59778@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Rather than seeking to automatically ascribe guilt, more realistic would be to highlight the relative capacities for harming others inherent in various forms of transport. Introduce a requirement that whatever legal entities are involved in the machinations following a collision are reminded of the unlikelihood of a cyclist having actively sought to end their journey under the wheels of a lorry or on the bonnet of a taxi? Forcibly remind those tasked with apportioning blame of the relative invulnerability (in collisions with cyclists or pedestrians) of the drivers the lorries and taxis? Stating something like "this may have reduced the driver's perception of the risk of a collision" would be forensically inadmissable without swathes of data to back it up but it's what some of us see every day when people heft their vehicles about as casually as if they're shouldering their way to the bar in a crowded pub. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5588#post-59771 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 11:17:12 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 59771@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>One wee comment on the poll options above, since someone has voted for "Sort out the RLJ, ninja, headphone wearing cyclists first"</p> <p>Again, this would have no effect on criminal cases, so we're only talking about civil law suits here. So if the driver could show that the cyclist who has launched the action had dangerously RLJ'd, been a ninja, or was wearign headphones (and the wearing of those headphones actually contributed to the incident) then that driver will not be liable.</p> <p>It's a really subtle shift. Normally the cycling claimant has to prove the driver did something wrong; with strict liability the driver has to prove that he didn't. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5588#post-59770 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 11:14:22 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 59770@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's not a <em>bad</em> article - though I've had to poibnt out in the comments, again, that this is a civil law matter and does not create a criminal presumption of guilt before proving innocence.</p> <p>There are a few flippant comments. And yes, I noticed the photo too! (naughty boy, stealing pics). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5588#post-59769 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 11:11:51 +0000 Min 59769@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Oh no, I recognise that photograph! Run for cover!</p> <p>I don't think I can read past the second paragraph, sorry. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5588#post-59761 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 10:48:21 +0000 crowriver 59761@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.betternation.org/2012/03/give-scottish-cyclists-a-break-place-assumption-of-guilt-on-drivers/" rel="nofollow">http://www.betternation.org/2012/03/give-scottish-cyclists-a-break-place-assumption-of-guilt-on-drivers/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1670#post-16818 Wed, 17 Nov 2010 00:03:11 +0000 Cyclingmollie 16818@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Arellcat, another unused approach might be to counter the absence of "malice aforethought" in cases where motorists are prosecuted for colliding with cyclists by checking the driver's computer for evidence of anti-cylist vitriol. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1670#post-16804 Tue, 16 Nov 2010 21:09:15 +0000 gembo 16804@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>More people than cars means there is still a market to exploit -check out China. Cyclists are the minority on the roads, and tonight's traffic was a disgrace, survived two near misses with vehicles deciding they were in a lane they didn't like [due to the queues] one at longstone and really bad one at Gillespies. Swore twice. HAd another near miss last night as the guy was going straight on but didn't fancy waiting til car ahead turned right and he undertook it in the left lane (left turn only) and then came back into the middle just as I made it to safety on the right. Do not tell my partner. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1670#post-16795 Tue, 16 Nov 2010 18:02:27 +0000 Matchstickwarrior 16795@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Only rough figures:<br /> UK population somewhere between 60-65 million, so potentially 60-65 million pedestrians.<br /> Number of cars on the road, about 22 million.</p> <p>At the most basic level of our political system, surely government policy should favour the majority, not the minority (or those who have the most money to splash on lobbying). </p>