http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: PoP2 - thoughts en Wed, 13 May 2026 04:55:40 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=5#post-111893 Sun, 26 May 2013 01:43:01 +0000 Tulyar 111893@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>One detail that Police just don't get is that you don't need to stop all pedestrians crossing a fluid group of cyclists moving along at under 8 mph. </p> <p>Most pedestrians can walk their way through a moving stream of cyclists, much in the same way that flows of cyclists can merge and cross without hitting each other on Dutch cycle routes, which are arranged to have merge junctions rather than cross roads.</p> <p>If PfS can accept a reporting of the event there should be a display for POP3 at PfS in September, and perhaps a POP2 reprise/reunion for the Road Race in Glasgow just to remind the politicians the call for action is not just a day in May, it is a movement that continues through everyone who came physically, and in spirit on 19th keep meeting up at other events and wearing the T shirts. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=5#post-111875 Sat, 25 May 2013 15:02:35 +0000 chdot 111875@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"12 miles of cars"</p> <p>Or about 2 hours if they all came by tram (without their bikes) - plus a long walk. </p> <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/latest-news/edinburgh-trams-infrequent-timetable-fears-1-2944543" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/latest-news/edinburgh-trams-infrequent-timetable-fears-1-2944543</a></p> <p>"Each Tram can carry a maximum of 250 people"</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20236/about_the_trams/1968/about_the_trams" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20236/about_the_trams/1968/about_the_trams</a></p> <p>Though other sources say it's 250 standing...</p> <p><a href="https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=edinburgh+tram+capacity" rel="nofollow">https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=edinburgh+tram+capacity</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=5#post-111872 Sat, 25 May 2013 11:01:17 +0000 Smudge 111872@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"12 miles of cars", or a traffic jam to make the one in "The Italian Job"* look amateur lol</p> <p>(wanders off humming "Get a bloomin' move on" :-)) )<br /> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQl91b7P8HI" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQl91b7P8HI</a> </p> <p>* The proper one with Michael Caine in </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=5#post-111871 Sat, 25 May 2013 10:43:34 +0000 WickyWocky 111871@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I did some maths.<br /> If 4000 cars were lined up on middle meadow walk:</p> <p>Parking space length 4.8m from <a href="http://www.planningni.gov.uk/index/policy/supplementary_guidance/spg_other/parking-standards.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.planningni.gov.uk/index/policy/supplementary_guidance/spg_other/parking-standards.pdf</a></p> <p>Metres in a mile approx 1609<br /> 4000 cars x 4.8m = 19,200 metres of cars<br /> = 12 miles of cars </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=5#post-111868 Sat, 25 May 2013 09:48:52 +0000 tarmac jockey 111868@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What about this for POP3. Agree the same route for 2014. MMW to "Miralles Palace". Cyclists to wear BLACK as a mark of respect for those who have regrettably but perhaps unnecessarily lost their lives. One minute silence followed by reading out the names of anyone who lost their lives cycling in Scotland between POP2 and POP3. No Platform for politicians. No PA system. Everyone to disperse and head straight for Princes Street - TRAMSPOTTING. Four thousand cyclists, dressed in black, massing on Princes Street alongside the most expensive road spend in Scotland should get the proper attention of the media, politicians and the anyone else in Edinburgh city centre on the day. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=5#post-111863 Fri, 24 May 2013 23:41:07 +0000 Uberuce 111863@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Tulyar has also blogged about this very thing, but from the inside-government-wheels perspective: hell yes. </p> <p>We had our heids nipped for the ludicrous expectation/turnout ratio of last year's POP along the route, but the mustering and dispersal at either end caused so little fuss that it was never an issue. When the safety elves and Great Gods of Traffic Flow won't complain about thousands of riders, then....yeah. </p> <p>Maybe I should tell them at the impending debrief that next year we're going to Bike Rack on Parliament. 4000-5000 cyclists, decked out in their best SUVs, sensible family saloons, pimped hot-hatches, crazy homebrew tallcars and tandems, 500bhp sportscars, motorbikes, minivans, vintage bangers and caravans, all with bikes proudly strapped to the top. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=5#post-111853 Fri, 24 May 2013 22:04:36 +0000 Smudge 111853@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Some good stuff here, one thing - am a little surprised has not been pointed out to the meedja etc.<br /> Sunday last four thousand people took personal transport and quietly and efficiently transited through the city, they made minimal disturbance to the traffic, they caused no air pollution, they caused no road damage, they created minimal noise pollution...<br /> Think about that again and consider four thousand people taking almost any other form of transport and attempting to do the same thing! It would be carnage! If there is a single perfect demonstration of the superiority of the bicycle for city transport, PoP was it. If you don't think so, imagine two to three thousand cars attempting the same feat! :-)) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=5#post-111852 Fri, 24 May 2013 22:02:22 +0000 tarmac jockey 111852@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@cb. Yes that was me wearing the red jacket, yellow cycle helmet and sunglasses. I hope that narrowed it down for you as there were probably another five or six hundred wearing a red jacket. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=5#post-111851 Fri, 24 May 2013 21:38:35 +0000 cb 111851@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><strong>tarmac jockey</strong> :"(You can't peddle a portfolio)"</p> <p>Was that you?! I must have been standing quite close by. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=5#post-111848 Fri, 24 May 2013 20:21:43 +0000 chdot 111848@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I think that if we actually managed to convince thousands of kids to start cycling to school next week they would all be killed."</p> <p>That's unduly pessimistic. </p> <p><a href="http://sciennesactivetravel.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/may-big-ride.html" rel="nofollow">http://sciennesactivetravel.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/may-big-ride.html</a></p> <p>Of course there was a RangeRover and BMW Mini that HAD to get post. </p> <p>The cyclists caught up with them at the next lights. </p> <p>There are stupid people out there. They are probably in a minority, and more needs to be done to challenge/marginalise them. </p> <p>Drink driving was 'normal' once. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=5#post-111842 Fri, 24 May 2013 18:31:09 +0000 tarmac jockey 111842@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>No apologies from me for constantly heckling the Wheelhouse. (You can't peddle a portfolio) However, I didn't do it so that the Labour MSP could make some capital out of it, which she did. </p> <p>Some points:<br /> When photographing the cyclists leaving from MMW I thought it would be good idea for every second or third cyclist to double back at Forest Road rejoining the tail of the group at Melville Terrace. A never ending stream of Cyclists.</p> <p>I believe the roads in Edinburgh are risky enough for adults/experienced cyclists to negotiate on a daily basis let alone children. If adults rate Edinburgh roads as too risky to cycle on safely, then you have very little or no chance of same adults allowing their children to cycle on the risky roads. "Make the roads safer for adults and the children will follow". </p> <p>I think the cycle part of the demo was over way to quick. I cycled from MMW all the way to the "Mirallis Palace" without stopping once. I couldn't have done it quicker on my Schwinn Circuit if I tried. </p> <p>I would continue to let the political parties supply the balloons </p> <p>@Focus - Lady with the pram was taking part, I think? I believe she was with someone who was cycling close to her.</p> <p>We need to make more noise!</p> <p>We need to make more impact!</p> <p>We need to take control of the demo and not the well intentioned and behaved Police. Leading me out from MMW to "Miralles Palace" - no thank you! I know the way.</p> <p>We should seriously consider riding in a loop for a couple of hours.</p> <p>Please don't take offence for the work that was put in by those who worked to set up POP2 and those who stewarded.</p> <p>Tarmac Jockey </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111833 Fri, 24 May 2013 16:01:17 +0000 Cyclingmollie 111833@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>amir and CalumCookable, I think you are both right. These arguments are used selectively depending on the intended audience. To government we say the roads are crazy dangerous and we need more infrastructure, to families we shout come on in the water's lovely. Cycle promotion money would be better spent subsidising existing cyclists to encourage them to keep going. Especially families trying to scrape together the cost of bikes for children who grow out of them every couple of years. Maybe more Climate Challenge funding to places like the Bike Station. NB if BS are reading this there are a couple of dozen kids bikes waiting to be collected from the East Lothian recycling depot. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111832 Fri, 24 May 2013 15:37:57 +0000 Calum 111832@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"make it an angry ride not a pleading and compliant one"</p> <p>It was great when that Wheelhouse character was booed. He didn't like that. I'd have been interested to see the kind of reception our beloved Keith would have received if he had bothered to turn up. I suspect it would not have been a positive one.</p> <p>"The biggest factor in improving safety will be a much greater proportion of the population cycling regularly"</p> <p>I don't agree with that. I think that if we actually managed to convince thousands of kids to start cycling to school next week they would all be killed. With some exceptions, the conditions are very poor and children cannot possibly be expected to deal with it. They can't and won't and don't. We have had decades of "encouraging" a wider demographic to take up cycling and it has amounted to absolutely nothing because nobody wants to do it on streets choked with cars. The infrastructure needs to come first. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111747 Fri, 24 May 2013 09:31:21 +0000 amir 111747@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Do the minute's silence at the Parliament. Make that the core of the "demo" - the whole point of it. We've done it twice asking for infrastructure. We shouldn't ask a third time.</p> <p>Maybe we should start being there to commemorate the people that they allowed to die or be seriously injured that year, and in the previous years. If Magnatom wants to be angry, make it an angry ride not a pleading and compliant one. "</p> <p>I kind of agree with this - but on the other hand we are also trying to encourage politicians and the wider public to see cycling as a sensible and safe form of transport. This is difficult if the focus is on death. The biggest factor in improving safety will be a much greater proportion of the population cycling regularly. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111742 Fri, 24 May 2013 08:42:04 +0000 fimm 111742@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I don't recall the exact words "speed up" but we were certainly being encouraged to keep moving - coming off MMW and onto the bit of road there was one place, IIRC. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111734 Fri, 24 May 2013 07:48:25 +0000 MeepMeep 111734@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm interested to know who was asking cyclists to speed up.</p> <p>I was telling those on bikes to <em>carry on</em> because I had asked pedestrians to wait and needed the waves of cyclists to flow. I had better visibility down Meadow Walk than those cycling up it so could anticipate gaps for pedestrians to cross without the possibility of causing a cartoon-like pile up that was created by letting one wizened nice old lady cross. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111723 Thu, 23 May 2013 22:37:39 +0000 Instography 111723@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Do the minute's silence at the Parliament. Make that the core of the "demo" - the whole point of it. We've done it twice asking for infrastructure. We shouldn't ask a third time. </p> <p>Maybe we should start being there to commemorate the people that they allowed to die or be seriously injured that year, and in the previous years. If Magnatom wants to be angry, make it an angry ride not a pleading and compliant one. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111722 Thu, 23 May 2013 22:21:35 +0000 sallyhinch 111722@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>When you get a lot of people and their mobile phones together in one place, the network often overloads. I wouldn't rely on text messages going through in real time. </p> <p>Hearing you loud and clear on the balloons. We have banished all thought of them from our heads. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111720 Thu, 23 May 2013 22:12:07 +0000 chdot 111720@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Another (cheaper) option is"</p> <p>Txt. </p> <p>Must be easy to get the mobile numbers from a number of people intending to attend and organise some to be spread through the crowd (+ a few marshalls). </p> <p>2 minute warning txt, 1 min. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111715 Thu, 23 May 2013 21:31:16 +0000 Smudge 111715@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Interesting ideas, although I also help with Guides I hadn't considered the hand raising option, if it were mentioned in the publicity/posters it could/would spread down the line very quickly and could be quite effective. (It is on the whole a very attentive and disciplined group compared to the average gaggle of excited Guides!)<br /> Less intrusive than whistles imo.</p> <p>As to radios, remember that you don't *have* to rent pro walkie-talkies, PMR is reasonably effective over the sort of short distances we're dealing with, and CB is now both effective and unlicenced and is very lightly used.</p> <p>Another (cheaper) option is to ask raynet for volunteers to run a net for you, or trawl the PoP masses for radio hams in the pre-publicity. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111714 Thu, 23 May 2013 21:31:01 +0000 gembo 111714@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Massive tawny old spread all across the Lang Whang the other night, very sad </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111712 Thu, 23 May 2013 21:27:46 +0000 neddie 111712@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Please, no balloons !<br /> <a href="http://www.rspca.org.uk/ImageLocator/LocateAsset?asset=document&amp;assetId=1232713930874&amp;mode=prd" rel="nofollow">http://www.rspca.org.uk/ImageLocator/LocateAsset?asset=document&amp;assetId=1232713930874&amp;mode=prd</a></em></p> <p>I wonder what the RSPCA have to say about the millions of birds &amp; animals that are injured, killed, or die an agonising slow death after being hit by cars?</p> <p>Perhaps they should issue a brochure advising people to stop driving.</p> <p>Oh wait, that's not a bad idea...</p> <p>Also, I' believe that keeping the speed down while driving massively reduces the chance of hitting an animal. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111672 Thu, 23 May 2013 17:39:06 +0000 EddieD 111672@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>{even further of topic} - I know helium is getting rare, but the day they had to shut down the LHC and release /tonnes/ of helium - it must have been the most fun place to work for half an hour - 300 mickey mouses.....</p> <p>Add me to the anti balloon brigade</p> <p>{Back on topic} We will almost certainly be released in groups again, I think that we need to work out a method of keeping the groups bunched, even if it means putting a line of prams at the front of each group. And ignoring the police cyclists trying to get us to hurry up. I'm as guilty as just about any other cyclist in my ambition to be at the front...it's just that there are times when we need to stick together. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111670 Thu, 23 May 2013 17:23:46 +0000 lionfish 111670@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>[off topic] "Brightly coloured helium balloons are also a terrible waste of helium." -- seconded! I used an MRI scanner for my PhD experiments. During my PhD another scanner (an <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoencephalography">MEG</a>) in the same lab was shutdown as the helium deliveries were restricted due to the global shortage.</p> <p>(To be honest the design of the MEG was also a big waste of helium - most MRI scanners now "recycle" the helium, the MEG seemed to let a lot of it boil off :/ )</p> <p>[on topic] I'm afraid we all talked through the minute silence without realising it had started. The bells (a wave of bells starting at the top of MMW and moving down) at the end told us we missed it! Sorry :/ We were waiting for some sign or something! I think in general we need a way of compacting the crowd and keeping the density up. Especially on the bike ride itself. The people at the front of each 'wave' need to cycle slowly and the marshals need to tell everyone to slow down (not speed up!). I couldn't really see the whole process though, and I'm sure there's reasons for things being they way they were! If there hadn't been a mega-rain the day before maybe we could have stood in a concentrated crowd on the grass? (focused on the cross-roads). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111664 Thu, 23 May 2013 17:05:55 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 111664@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Consider myself reprimanded on the balloons (was aware of chinese lanterns being a problem due to the wire frames, hadn't really considered/known that balloons were just as bad). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111661 Thu, 23 May 2013 17:03:53 +0000 Focus 111661@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Deleted - wrong thread! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111651 Thu, 23 May 2013 16:23:54 +0000 Focus 111651@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ <strong>tarmac jockey</strong></p> <p><em>Please</em> tell me the mother walking with her pram on the cycle side of the path in image 9026 was either part of PoP2 (though she should still have stayed on the left), because otherwise just what did she think she was doing?! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111649 Thu, 23 May 2013 16:18:48 +0000 Focus 111649@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Add me to the anti-balloon brigade. As cyclists, we do like to remind everyone of our green credentials and littering the city and countryside with balloons is not exactly promoting that. In the past, it would have been a great idea as it makes an impact on the day, but we are more environmentally aware these days. You'd probably even get the odd gas-guzzler moaning about it too. The irony! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111641 Thu, 23 May 2013 15:48:39 +0000 tarmac jockey 111641@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Got around to uploading the photos I took on the day. <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/revstar/" rel="nofollow">http://www.flickr.com/photos/revstar/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10220&page=4#post-111640 Thu, 23 May 2013 15:47:01 +0000 Cyclist 111640@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Regarding the minute's silence, an option would be to hold it at Holyrood and communicate it to the assembled masses via the PA. </p>