http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Riding through the Dalmeny Estate because of closure of the A90 path en Wed, 13 May 2026 02:38:37 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-329884 Wed, 13 May 2020 20:42:23 +0000 HankChief 329884@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Open again...</p> <p><a href="https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2938491719560893&amp;id=225518404191585?sfnsn=scwspmo&amp;extid=LFB8ZYH7Kok2szEu" rel="nofollow">https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2938491719560893&amp;id=225518404191585?sfnsn=scwspmo&amp;extid=LFB8ZYH7Kok2szEu</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-328675 Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:39:17 +0000 minus six 328675@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Dalmeny</p> <p>Yesterday lunchtime I was cycling up the hill to Dalmeny and was enveloped in a white cloud emanating from behind one of your tractors, which was in the arable field behind the dyke. I assume this was pesticide? </p> <p>There were various cyclists, walkers and joggers (one elderly) who were not at all happy with this state of affairs, as there was a moderate breeze pushing this cloud right into us. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-328668 Wed, 29 Apr 2020 16:32:10 +0000 crowriver 328668@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Quarantine zone - stay out"</p> <p>Translation from landowner speak: "Gerrorf my land!" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-328521 Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:11:00 +0000 Murun Buchstansangur 328521@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It’ll be closed till the lambs are hoggits if the estate gets its way... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-328507 Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:22:41 +0000 fimm 328507@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A friend of mine reports on Facebook that there are signs on the cycle route through the Dalmeny Estate saying "Quarantine zone - stay out". Are these the same signs as earlier in the thread? </p> <p>Surely they've had their 3 weeks lambing? Or not yet? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-327201 Wed, 08 Apr 2020 15:08:31 +0000 chdot 327201@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/illegal-signs-claiming-routes-are-closed-slammed-196048/" rel="nofollow">https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/illegal-signs-claiming-routes-are-closed-slammed-196048/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326564 Thu, 02 Apr 2020 09:48:14 +0000 chdot 326564@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>However, we’re also encouraging people to stay local and not travel unnecessarily. You may also find that core path access across the countryside is disrupted with many farmers keen to discourage people from walking through their yards and for walkers to keep a safe distance.</p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.fife.gov.uk/news/stay-at-home-guidance-on-the-use-of-fifes-parks-and-open-spaces" rel="nofollow">https://www.fife.gov.uk/news/stay-at-home-guidance-on-the-use-of-fifes-parks-and-open-spaces</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326273 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 17:01:53 +0000 14Westfield 326273@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Dalmeny. Thanks for the update, it is much appreciated. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326266 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:44:39 +0000 I were right about that saddle 326266@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I have to say I detect a degree of exceptionalism here. Every business has to operate inside the law and also deal with those who don't follow suit. Shops have shoplifters, insurance companies have fraudsters, pubs have various gangsters and extortionists. </p> <p>It's just part of the cost of doing business. </p> <p>And this isn't a tragedy of the commons as this is not common land. If it was common land the income from it would be commonly held and we'd have a say in how it was managed. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326261 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 14:56:18 +0000 Morningsider 326261@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Dalmeny - an induction loop, rather than a magnetic sensor, could possibly solve that problem. They can detect everything from bikes to HGVs, but people and animals shouldn't set them off. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326260 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 14:55:49 +0000 neddie 326260@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'd be interested to know the total amount of money spent over the years on installing and maintaining these substantial electric gates with electronic access equipment and the various sensors tried, versus the net income raised rearing sheep/lamb. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326259 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 14:42:40 +0000 Dalmeny 326259@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Morningsider</p> <p>About hand-bike access through security gates.</p> <p>Thank you very much for your suggestions. Those are feasible ideas for getting in (although, as @Trixie points out, codes have a habit of spreading to those who shouldn’t have them and then needing to be changed). The real problem is getting <em>out</em> again.</p> <p>The electric gates originally had an optical sensor to open them when someone was leaving: fine for cyclists, but we soon discovered that cows, sheep, even deer were setting it off – and worse, car drivers discovered that they could walk in, trigger the gate, and then <em>drive</em> in, defeating the whole purpose. The gates now have a magnetic sensor, which means that only a metallic object the size of a car will open them. So, unfortunately, even with an entry code, hand-bike riders would find the estate like the Hotel California: you can check out but you can never leave.</p> <p>As IWRATS suggests, a lot of these access conundrums would disappear if there were more effective policing of anti-social behaviour, although I’m afraid we may not see that happening anytime soon. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326254 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:50:39 +0000 gembo 326254@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Noted points 1-5 in previous posts and stated not unreasonable</p> <p>I watch daily from my splendid isolation the tragedy of the commons on NCN 75 which is perhaps narrower and more enclosed (Water of Leith path) than paths through Dalmeny Estate.</p> <p>A couple walk their dog up and down coughing ass they go. Some cyclists then cycle through the same airspace.</p> <p>A jogger snots away and a cyclist ovetakes within a foot</p> <p>The coughing cyclist has not been past for three days, maybe he has realised belatedly he needs to self isolate.</p> <p>The NCN75 is however a lot narrower partic at bottom of my garden. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326250 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:23:11 +0000 Dalmeny 326250@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot and others</p> <p>Understood – so here is a quick repeat of the facts:</p> <p>1) The closure is not an order, but a request.</p> <p>2) The request covers the three-week lockdown period, which happens to coincide with the lambing and Spring planting times.</p> <p>3) The main Shore Walk here has been open to the public for at least two hundred years; we have no problem with responsible access.</p> <p>4) There is still open access to the paths and beaches from Queensferry to Hound Point and from Cramond Brig to the Snab.</p> <p>5) We, like you, would like the situation to return to normal as soon as possible. What we are trying to avoid is a "tragedy of the commons," where thousands of people, each acting in reasonable self-interest, combine to create a severe, unintended problem. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326248 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:04:04 +0000 Harts Cyclery 326248@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>The Dalmeny shepherds and farm workers have asked me to pass on their heartfelt thanks for the positive response of the Edinburgh cycling community to our emergency closure request. It has made a huge difference, greatly reducing an extra source of stress during what is always an anxious time of the year.</p> <p>At the risk of boring you with bucolic detail, here are some of the tasks that your forbearance is helping with: the first lambs have appeared and, like premature human babies, these are the ones at the greatest risk – so the shepherds need to get them in and under the heat-lamps in minutes. We are also beginning the process of matching orphan and triplet lambs to foster mothers.</p> <p>The maternal bond in sheep is a fragile thing; during the first weeks, it is not unusual for lambs or ewes, having been startled by something (fast-moving road-users, or dogs, even if on a lead) to run off and become separated. If the separation lasts more than a few hours, the ewe can reject the lamb when it returns. So a lot of the work after lambing is going around and reuniting lambs with their mothers (it’s why they have numbers painted on them).</p> <p>And, Scotland being Scotland, this is one of the very few years when there is good ploughing weather at ploughing time, so every available hand is in the tractors, rushing to get seed in the ground before the rains return. All of this could have been jeopardized if we had a repeat of the thousands of visitors who came here the weekend before last. But today we can say “so far, so good,” thanks largely to the understanding and decency of cyclists.</em></p> <p>Fascinating, but irrelevant. More gaslighting and red herrings. Why are you attempting to restrict access? Who did you speak to in the Council? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326247 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:03:34 +0000 chdot 326247@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The current epidemic <em>should</em> concentrate minds on ‘local’ food. </p> <p>Farming in a post CAP UK <em>will</em> be different - by accident or design. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326246 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 13:00:50 +0000 chdot 326246@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks for thanks. </p> <p>As you will see from thread there are (always) concerns about access and the possibilities of things under lockdown not returning - much bigger issues than your land/farming activities. </p> <p>‘Emergency laws’ that last for two years for a situation (initially) expected to last 3 months doesn’t help! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326245 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 12:48:13 +0000 Dalmeny 326245@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The Dalmeny shepherds and farm workers have asked me to pass on their heartfelt thanks for the positive response of the Edinburgh cycling community to our emergency closure request. It has made a huge difference, greatly reducing an extra source of stress during what is always an anxious time of the year.</p> <p>At the risk of boring you with bucolic detail, here are some of the tasks that your forbearance is helping with: the first lambs have appeared and, like premature human babies, these are the ones at the greatest risk – so the shepherds need to get them in and under the heat-lamps in minutes. We are also beginning the process of matching orphan and triplet lambs to foster mothers.</p> <p>The maternal bond in sheep is a fragile thing; during the first weeks, it is not unusual for lambs or ewes, having been startled by something (fast-moving road-users, or dogs, even if on a lead) to run off and become separated. If the separation lasts more than a few hours, the ewe can reject the lamb when it returns. So a lot of the work after lambing is going around and reuniting lambs with their mothers (it’s why they have numbers painted on them).</p> <p>And, Scotland being Scotland, this is one of the very few years when there is good ploughing weather at ploughing time, so every available hand is in the tractors, rushing to get seed in the ground before the rains return. All of this could have been jeopardized if we had a repeat of the thousands of visitors who came here the weekend before last. But today we can say “so far, so good,” thanks largely to the understanding and decency of cyclists. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326243 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 12:34:28 +0000 I were right about that saddle 326243@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Walk, cycle, swim and paddle. Open water included also. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326242 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 12:28:19 +0000 Harts Cyclery 326242@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@stiltskin yes, cars only. You can walk and cycle wherever you want, provided you are socially-distancing. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326241 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 12:23:52 +0000 I were right about that saddle 326241@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Harts</p> <p>Agreed. Reminds me of the hill estate that tried to turn me back on the grounds that I would be disturbing the 'wild' deer that were calmly eating their silage from the feeder in a field. Wild my backside. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326239 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 12:14:26 +0000 stiltskin 326239@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Barrier across the road on Braepark Road ‘Residents Only’ (I’m assuming it means cars). Cramond esplanade likewise closed off. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326237 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 12:03:25 +0000 I were right about that saddle 326237@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@neddie</p> <p>Leaving animals at large in order to discourage or impede access is specifically unlawful;</p> <p><a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2003/2/section/14" rel="nofollow">http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2003/2/section/14</a></p> <p>All stock should be fenced, obviously. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326235 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 12:03:07 +0000 Harts Cyclery 326235@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, the anti-social thing is a complete and utter red herring.</p> <p>There's a lot of gaslighting in the Dalmeny defence. It *seems* reasonable, but it is not. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326234 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 12:01:38 +0000 I were right about that saddle 326234@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Harts</p> <p>The 2003 Act is widely resented by some of the controllers of the land it covers. (I won't dignify them with the title 'owner' as they frequently don't own it even legally.) I've no idea if Mr Primrose of Dalmeny is one such.</p> <p>So yes, we have to <em>insist</em> on our right of responsible access. </p> <p>Thinking about it more the anti-social behaviour thing is a totally different issue, as is Covid-19. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326233 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 12:00:43 +0000 Harts Cyclery 326233@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I cycled past dozens of fields of sheep in West Lothian on Saturday. I even waved and said hello to a farmer in one of them.</p> <p>Amazingly, he hadn't felt the need to close of the road past his farm.</p> <p>Indeed on Sunday, I even cycled through a Rosebery estate farm, the one on the road to Dalmeny Village, on my way to West Craigie Quarry, within 5m of a farmer who nodded in acknowledgement. Remarkable how these farms aren't restricted and yet Sustrans routes that runs right past the Big Hoose, and nowhere near any sheep is..... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326232 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 11:54:22 +0000 neddie 326232@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>One solution might be to discontinue the keeping of sheep and do something more environmentally beneficial like planting native woodland. Then the gates could be left open.</p> <p>Aren't the government meant to be funding woodland plantation and removing subsidies for livestock? I'm not sure what the current situation is, but I would like to see the government making woodland plantation more lucrative than sheep rearing.</p> <p>If sheep really do still have to be kept, then surely they could be contained in fenced-off fields, to stop them going on the road or coming into contact with the general public, much like the ones next to the M6.</p> <p>With regards to NEDs on motorcycles, this could be a problem anywhere. As we have seen, gates &amp; chicanes are not the solution. What is needed is proper resourcing of the police to crack down on the small number of groups that cause so many problems.</p> <p>The native woodland could act as a buffer to the fields of sheep. It's very hard to get a motorcycle through woods, last time I checked. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326231 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 11:42:45 +0000 Harts Cyclery 326231@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>OK, I'll bite.</p> <p>This is an unjustified attempt to restrict access. The COVID legislation does not restrict land access rights. The Land Reform Act (2003) still applies.</p> <p>Dalmeny are using the most flimsy of justification imaginable to restrict access. It is the responsibility of the estate to ensure the safety of their work force, respecting access rights, not to restrict them.</p> <p>Given how little resilience exists amongst staff, I presume the estate is doing all it can to isolate them. I imagine they're not allowed to visit corner shops and supermarkets - a sure site of cross contamination. I imagine they are being delivered food parcels....</p> <p>How long is this going to go on for? Until the end of the lambing season? Until harvest? Until there's a vaccine? We are looking at COVID social-distancing measures for the best part of a year. It is not proportionate or justified to attempt to limit access like this.</p> <p>Our rights have not changed. Use your access rights RESPONSIBLY. I certainly will. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=4#post-326224 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 11:07:23 +0000 Trixie 326224@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I don't know the entrances but I assume, being chicanes, that they preclude any non-standard bike and there are increasing numbers of those around.</p> <p>It wouldn't make sense to have a generic keypad code. In order to be useful it would have to be widely known. Thus the neddery would get it in no time and the place would be crawling with motorbikes and none of us want that.</p> <p>How do they do it at Dalkeith? They have passable locked gates, right? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10267&page=3#post-326218 Mon, 30 Mar 2020 10:09:14 +0000 I were right about that saddle 326218@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Morningsider</p> <p>It is a poser. Possibly quite demeaning to have to request access that others have by right? </p>