http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Sentence for killer of Audrey Fyfe will be appealed en Tue, 19 May 2026 00:20:12 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322&page=2#post-126259 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 18:53:38 +0000 fimm 126259@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@SRD interesting and worrying. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322&page=2#post-126255 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:25:56 +0000 SRD 126255@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>this is getting a lot of play on twitter <a href="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVK_K2FCQAE0KZX.png:large" rel="nofollow">https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVK_K2FCQAE0KZX.png:large</a></p> <p>from Iain Walker </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322&page=2#post-126254 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:25:34 +0000 i 126254@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@twq </p> <p>You should report the incident as soon as possible, ideally on the same day. Either go to the police station or phone 101. Even if they don't do anything, they know its a problem. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322&page=2#post-126253 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:00:12 +0000 Morningsider 126253@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In what way could driving a car on the wrong side of a road into an oncoming vehicle (regardless of cars/deer etc) be considered careless? I would say this clearly meets the definition of dangerous driving.</p> <p>The zebra crossing death is shocking - "I simply didn't see him", anyone saying this should have these words automatically changed to "I simply wasn't looking".</p> <p>I am amazed at how difficult it seems to be to have a driving licence removed for life. How can an HGV driver be disqualified 20 times? How is a one year ban considered appropriate for causing a fatal collision.</p> <p>I wonder if at some point in the future people are going to look back at this and consider us a bunch of savages. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322&page=2#post-126252 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:54:48 +0000 fimm 126252@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, it does sound like the girlfriend is claiming to have been looking out of the window in order to avoid having say what she saw, but do we really expect passengers in a car to watch the road as intently as the driver? Are passengers not allowed to look at the view?</p> <p>But we're back to the CPS (or whatever it is here) deciding they were more likely to get a conviction for Careless than for Dangerous. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322&page=2#post-126251 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:34:01 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 126251@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@SRD, that is truly truly astonishing. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322&page=2#post-126249 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:31:14 +0000 twq 126249@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@holisticglint On the way home yesterday I had a car being a bit indecisive at the roundabout on Queen's drive (left lane, then went right), then accelerated and blasted through zebra crossing as a couple of people were crossing. Have it all on camera if anyone's interested. Reckon I should report it? Driver had earphones in too, to top it off.<br /> I wonder if the guy on a bike who I spoke to after is on this forum? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-126244 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:10:08 +0000 SRD 126244@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Read the earlier story on the drink-driver motorbike crash <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-23928241" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-23928241</a></p> <p>Surely overtaking dangerously is dangerous driving not careless? </p> <p>They must have cast a huge amount of doubt on the witnesses' story? and you gotta love the girlfriend was 'looking at clouds'. </p> <p>unbelievable. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-126243 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:07:08 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 126243@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>Warning - this report may cause you to swear loudly in the workplace.</em>"</p> <p>You're not wrong! I love how there's an attempt to paint her as a 'careful' driver, because she was paying attention to the large group that (apparently) she thought posed a danger. Apparently it's just 'carelessness' to look to the left, but not the right, while driving, and it's tragic because she was 'driving within the speed limit'. Good god...</p> <p>As has been said, though, in most of these circumstances (save some obvious examples) imprisonment is perhaps secondary to the need to remove people from the roads altogether. Certainly if you've killed twice. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-126242 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 14:54:08 +0000 kaputnik 126242@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well I assume in this case the Sherriff wasn't trying to blame the victim for not wearing a magic plastic hat. Also he didn't kill his victim "gently". Got to remember that according to the court, Gary Mccourt was only a "gentle" killer.</p> <p>Courts also (in my opinion) like to be seen to be tougher if drink is involved. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-126241 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 14:47:19 +0000 holisticglint 126241@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@kaputnik at least that guy went to jail but only 3 year ban! Why can't the courts take these dangerous people off of the road permanently? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-126240 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 14:44:09 +0000 kaputnik 126240@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And not just cycling bikers;</p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-24303256" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-24303256</a></p> <p><em>A man who has previous convictions for drink driving and driving without a licence has been jailed for 12 months for killing a biker.</p> <p>Phillip Hogg's Alfa Romeo hit 53-year-old James Burns' motorbike head-on on the A70 Kilmarnock to Edinburgh road, near Carnwath, on 7 September 2011.</p> <p>Hogg, 43, who had been drinking but was under the legal limit, claimed he had swerved to avoid hitting a deer.</em></p> <p>Driver was overtaking a car in the rain and poor visibility, after (at least) a glass of wine, hit the oncoming motorcyclist and ended up with his car off the road and on it's roof. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-126238 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 14:21:26 +0000 fimm 126238@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24281043">this article on the BBC:</a></p> <p>"<em>In 2009, Anish Patel's wife, Catriona, 39, was killed by a serial offender while cycling to work. She was crushed under the wheels of his lorry outside Oval tube station in south London. The driver had three previous drink-driving convictions, <u>had been disqualified 20 times</u> and had three previous convictions for reckless driving.</em>"</p> <p>An old story, but somehow those facts didn't change anything - was it somehow thought to be an isolated incident? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-126236 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 14:19:12 +0000 holisticglint 126236@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Another pathetic sentence. This time for mowing someone down on a zebra crossing.</p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-24300631" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-24300631</a></p> <p>Warning - this report may cause you to swear loudly in the workplace. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-126157 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 05:51:10 +0000 Charterhall 126157@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Why can't why all be nice to each other and get along ? Because our legal system frees killers like McCourt to kill again and again, that's why. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-126101 Thu, 26 Sep 2013 16:53:06 +0000 kaputnik 126101@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I have written to the Justice Minister to express my disgust with this pathetic sentence.</p> <p>If you'd like to do the same, his email address is:-<br /> </em></p> <p>I shall be. Think I'll go as far as paper and stamp letter. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-126100 Thu, 26 Sep 2013 16:51:48 +0000 kaputnik 126100@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The whole "but roads are dangerous, it's their own fault" argument is a load of nonsense.</p> <p>Flying in a commercial airliner is (potentially) very dangerous, if something goes wrong, you're going to fall very far and very fast and hit something very hard.</p> <p>But it's not dangerous at all, because safety is taken extremelly seriously by the industry, manufacturers and the authorities and is rigorously enforced with the legal and financial penalties to back it up.</p> <p>If something does go wrong, we don't blame the passengers for having the temerity to get from A to B by taking a plane. We don't have the newsrags screaming "<strong><em>how many more innocent air crash victims and grieving families will it take before people stop flying on their holidays</strong></em>?"</p> <p>Instead, blame is rightly put on the responsible parties and the authorities by and large come down on them very severly if the airlines, manufacturers, controllers etc. are found lacking.</p> <p>Cycling is exactly the same. It's a very safe thing to do. It becomes increasingly more dangerous when cyclists are obliged to go into an environment where they are the vulnerable party and where there isn't the safety-by-design backed up by proper regulation, enforcement and judicial punishments when people are found guilty of acting dangerously or carelessly. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-126095 Thu, 26 Sep 2013 16:27:13 +0000 Instography 126095@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>People would say that in all sorts of circumstances. When people have died in canoeing or diving accidents I've seen similar comments about it being their own fault for participating in activities with an element of danger. </p> <p>Two things are different. First, that cycling on the road is a legitimate form of transport not an extreme sport. The fact that has some of the features of an extreme sport is an indicator that something is wrong. Second, cyclists tend not to die because of their own misjudgements about the weather or by over-estimating their abilities. They die because someone else used what should be a safe and benign alternative mode (their car) in a way that is dangerous. It's the acceptance of careless and dangerous driving that makes cycling an extreme sport. That's the problem that needs to be solved. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-126092 Thu, 26 Sep 2013 16:15:19 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 126092@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Some of the latest comments on the story are truly pathetic. Quite a few along the lines of, "the roads are dangerous places, cyclists are taking their own risks" - so basically we should just accept possibly being killed every time we ride on the roads, it's our own fault.</p> <p>In what other facet of life would we respond to something being dangerous and killing people by saying "well don't go near it" rather than "let's stop it being dangerous"?</p> <p>The only one I can think of is effectively blaming rape victims for putting themselves in a position where, well, y'know, you were basically asking the man to rape you. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-126087 Thu, 26 Sep 2013 15:52:35 +0000 Colin 126087@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I have written to the Justice Minister to express my disgust with this pathetic sentence.</p> <p>If you'd like to do the same, his email address is:-</p> <p>Kenny.MacAskill.msp <a href="mailto:Kenny.MacAskill.msp@scottish.parliament.uk">Kenny.MacAskill.msp@scottish.parliament.uk</a></p> <p>Colin </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-126085 Thu, 26 Sep 2013 15:31:45 +0000 crowriver 126085@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Whoah! Did you see that? The EEN appear to have removed yesterday's report on this, and now <a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/call-for-legal-review-as-gary-mccourt-dodges-jail-1-3110496">at the same link</a> have a very different angle, published today, expressing revulsion at the appeal. Wow. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-126061 Thu, 26 Sep 2013 12:30:58 +0000 threefromleith 126061@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The EEN has form on this; they've previously left the comments open on stories about Audrey Fyffe's death, whereas they have NEVER allowed comments on stories involving any other death. </p> <p>They seem to think cyclists are fair game for online abuse &amp; insensitivity, regardless of the feelings of their families.</p> <p>Anyone working for the EEN or the Scotsman should be hanging their heads in shame. I sincerely hope that Mrs Fyffe's family don't see some of the stuff posted there. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-126055 Thu, 26 Sep 2013 11:57:59 +0000 SRD 126055@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Strong comment in EEN today</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/comment-cyclists-need-protection-from-courts-1-3113471" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/comment-cyclists-need-protection-from-courts-1-3113471</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-126016 Thu, 26 Sep 2013 09:37:09 +0000 LaidBack 126016@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Excellent graphic Kaputnik.</p> <p>Call Kaye (on now) has Audrey's daughter on explaining why the decision was wrong. </p> <p>Despite her plea the majority of callers have used the programme to demonise cyclists. </p> <p>Sports cyclists 'blocking' rural roads seems to be a popular gripe.<br /> As we know the NWC has had no effect on attitudes and much ignorance on display about cyclists knowing their place. 'Why don't they use the paths'. 'Cyclists want it all' etc etc<br /> The attitudes on display are beyond parody.... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-125949 Wed, 25 Sep 2013 18:24:00 +0000 kaputnik 125949@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><img src="http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/811041956.jpg"></p> <p>"The Scottish Legal System" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-125944 Wed, 25 Sep 2013 17:17:23 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 125944@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>To be fair, a number of EEN writers have expressed their own personal shock/dismay at today's rulings.</em>"</p> <p>Absolutely, but someone suggesting the cycling lobby have got their 'comeuppance' and the like, even if it's only 2 or 3 nasty comments, is completely and utterly innappropriate. EEN should not be allowing comments on that story. It's a matter of respect for the families. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-125943 Wed, 25 Sep 2013 17:14:11 +0000 SRD 125943@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The all powerful bike lobby is on twitter </p> <p><a href="https://mobile.twitter.com/BicycleLobby" rel="nofollow">https://mobile.twitter.com/BicycleLobby</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-125942 Wed, 25 Sep 2013 17:04:45 +0000 Morningsider 125942@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>WC - with regards the showing of remorse, I think actions speak louder than words here. By choosing to plead not guilty he put a grieving family through a further ordeal. </p> <p>I really, really doubt the Crown Office was influenced by the "cycling lobby". I would be intrigued to know why some people seem to think cyclists have huge influence on the powers that be - when everything would appear to indicate the opposite (see miniscule budgets, increasing cyclist deaths etc.) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-125941 Wed, 25 Sep 2013 17:04:14 +0000 SRD 125941@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>To be fair, a number of EEN writers have expressed their own personal shock/dismay at today's rulings. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10322#post-125940 Wed, 25 Sep 2013 16:49:46 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 125940@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I can't believe they're letting comments on the story</p> <p>"<em>An excellent decision by the Court of Appeal. The original sentance of Sheriff Scott was also correct. The Crown should never have appealed this case on the strength of the cycling lobby. It serves them right for pursuing the appeal and they deserved to lose. Also a warning shot against the cycling lobby.</em>" </p>