http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Edinburgh Bike Coop vs The Bike Chain en Fri, 22 May 2026 06:24:29 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-133860 Thu, 21 Nov 2013 19:16:06 +0000 Edinburgh Cycle Training 133860@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Chapeau! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-133840 Thu, 21 Nov 2013 16:58:16 +0000 DaveC 133840@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Great news!! I guess it does pay to be stubborn. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-133839 Thu, 21 Nov 2013 16:54:19 +0000 spencerm 133839@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>As an end to the sorry saga: after a visit from trading standards and my visa company giving them a phone call or two, Madison decided 'as a gesture of goodwill' to refund the entire amount I paid for the day one.</p> <p>Turns out being stubborn, determined and right do sometimes pay off! Took a while though... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-114632 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 07:27:40 +0000 spencerm 114632@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Greenroofer: who knows if you were lucky, or I unlucky. The lass you mention bought hers around the same time mine was back for a warranty issue. I remember discussing with Mark/Brad later that she was having some of the issues I was, noteably the skipping/slipping to bottom gear when changing down.</p> <p>The chap at Madison said they don't often get trouble with the 8 spd, but they do get a lot of 11 spds back. Pinch of salt required. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-114621 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 22:14:05 +0000 Greenroofer 114621@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I know this is a thread about spencerm getting his or her bike sorted, and oddly enough I know someone at work who got a Day One 11-speed Alfine from TBC and she had quite a bit of trouble with the hub gear too. </p> <p>However I must say that I'm quite a fan of the 8-speed hub. I've had one on my daily commuter for 3 years with no trouble at all. It's done 10,000 miles on the towpath in all weathers all year round and it works fine. It's been serviced twice in that time, although that was an old 'regrease' service rather than the newer oil-bath service which seems to be the standard now.</p> <p>Inevitably now, of course, it will disintegrate tomorrow... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-114608 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 19:52:34 +0000 spencerm 114608@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks BenN, I'm waiting to hear back from my cc company. It is likely to be my route of recourse as Madison have said they will only refund the trade cost. Personally I think Madison should pick up the whole bill as a lesson to them for selling seriously substandard gear.</p> <p>I do wonder what would happen were I to continue riding it and ended up under a bus due to the fault... downside is I wouldn't be about to find out!</p> <p>On this note, at the recommendation of Citizens Advice I notified Trading Standards. They can't act on my behalf, but are keen to follow up. Will be interesting (if I hear about it) what happens!</p> <p>gembo - I opened my second hub to see if I could spot anything wrong. You're meant to do this every 5000 miles to replace the grease. What I found, 1000 km in, was that the extreme non drive side had beautiful white grease and the rest of the hub was full of watery brown muck. It amazes me how Vin Cox managed to ride around the world with an Alfine 8 spd! Did he stop every week and get a new hub?!</p> <p>Instography - Madison have all along been quite happy to replace the hub gear and even suggested swapping the bike for a dérailleured model. Given it's taken them 7 weeks to say this I've since bought another bike (life must go on).</p> <p>I'm also seriously distrustful of the Genesis brand now. Whilst the main issue lies with the Alfine hub (only lasting 1000 km before needing to be replaced) the bike has many other problems. In an effort to save others from making the same mistake (buying one) I'll list below:<br /> <ul><br /> Avid BB5 brakes require adjusting every 50 miles or so otherwise they don't stop you, when they're set up to stop you they rub/drag<br /> Even when set up well the front brake lacks the stopping power of the back brake, it's been suggested to me that because the front brake lever also has the shifting mechanism in it it isn't capable of pulling through enough cable...<br /> The versa shifter slips whilst changing down, maybe once in every 15 shifts, leaving you in bottom gear<br /> The bike with mudguards and rack (750 g) weighs 15 kg (60 cm frame)<br /> The throw on the versa shifter is enormous, you need big hands to change up!<br /> The wheels are badly made: I snapped a spoke in the rear free-wheeling down a smooth road. The front wheel spent most time out of true (I never used this bike for cyclocross, like it's designed for).<br /> </ul><br /> As a comparison, since I stopped riding the Genesis day one and now use a Mercian (11 kg with guards, no rack) my average speed has gone up by ~ 5 km/h. This is likely a mix of the reduced weight and lack of brake/hub drag.</p> <p>Thanks for all your comments! If anything interesting comes out of the process, I'll definitely update you. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-114527 Sat, 15 Jun 2013 08:50:54 +0000 gembo 114527@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@spencerm I agree with your assessment on hub gears but I could not convince EBC of this. Big Ged, one of the founding fathers of the EBC rides one very happily to Dalmeny every day along the canal towpath and has never had any trouble. The trouble with nexus 8 was water ingress. mr G the mechanic reported that whenever he opened a nexus 8 hub (now not allowed to open them as such) the grease was gone and in its place a kind of dirty water would run out. My conclusion, but not Ged's - nexus 8 no use in rainy scottish winters? Alfine was supposed to be a step up with better protection against water penetration. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-114516 Fri, 14 Jun 2013 23:29:41 +0000 Instography 114516@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Surprised at Madison. When I had to get the rear wheel of my Croix de Fer replaced they were pretty good. They made a bit of a pigs ear of replacing it - losing bits that I had to be given new for - but they did replace it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-114515 Fri, 14 Jun 2013 23:03:16 +0000 BenN 114515@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>spencerm - I had a falling out with an appliance company recently who refused to honour their warranty, so became well acquainted with section 75 refunds. As you have probably noted by now, your credit card company are AS liable as the original retailer. In essence, you have as much recourse to claim a refund from them as you do from the original company under the sale of goods act - hence 'warranty' periods don't come in to it, and it is governed by acceptable lifespan. </p> <p>The credit card companies usually try to pass the buck to the retailer or the manufacturer, but frankly it's up to YOU who you claim your refund from - not them. And trust me, any company who can afford to fund an entire credit card arm are going to be hurt a lot less than a bike shop with a limited number of branches, thus in my opinion are a lot more likely to give in and refund you... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-114495 Fri, 14 Jun 2013 17:18:57 +0000 spencerm 114495@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Finally heard back from Madison. They'll refund the trade cost, but not the price I paid.</p> <p>Still waiting to hear from my credit card company.</p> <p>The moral of the story is: don't buy a hub geared bike.</p> <p>Must get around to writing a full review of the day one alfine... so others don't make the same mistake! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-113317 Thu, 06 Jun 2013 19:18:13 +0000 gembo 113317@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ Spencerm, I am agreeing with you and have had the same experience, but I gave up on 8 speed hub gears (nexus because they break)</p> <p>Good to hear Madison refunding. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-113187 Thu, 06 Jun 2013 10:00:25 +0000 spencerm 113187@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Point is, three brand new alfine 8 spd hubs have failed after approx 1000 km each.</p> <p>When they fail it's dangerous (complete loss of power, akin to chain snapping).</p> <p>Service interval for the hub is ~ 5000 km. So at no point have they met their expected life span (or sale of goods act: fit for purpose).</p> <p>Currently the distributor, Madison, agree with me and are hopefully sorting out a refund.</p> <p>Safe to say - I've been put off hub gears. Fine when they work. But they're binary: they either work or don't. Trouble is there's little the user can do to fix one when it doesn't.</p> <p>I'm not interested in changing the hub for something else, as I bought a complete bike. You expect it to work and it shouldn't be my problem! (it would be a different story had I built it myself). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-113160 Thu, 06 Jun 2013 07:50:17 +0000 gembo 113160@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>After four days in alps I took spesh crossroads very heavy bike up from hermiston with fully loaded panniers in first gear of the three speed. Maybe it is just better legs I need?</p> <p>Did consider the two speed you kick to change. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-113146 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 23:01:58 +0000 Nelly 113146@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My mate (big boned!) Had a 2 yr old EBC country traveller bust at a frame joint. EBC could have sent it for repair or played hardball but got him a 'brand new' ex demo instead.</p> <p>He was delighted, natch.</p> <p>I think service usually depends on who you get - in any walk of life. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-113141 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 22:38:27 +0000 wee folding bike 113141@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I find 3 speeds are very reliable.</p> <p>My SA 5 doesn't deal well with the torque required to get up our hill but it is a stiffish hill. If the adjustment is slightly off then the sliding key doesn't slide far enough then it will skip a wee bit and eventually damage the key.</p> <p>Other hills don't cause it any trouble. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-113140 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 22:06:47 +0000 Dave 113140@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>gembo, the 5 speed is terrible (based on my experience of 1 that exploded and had to be refunded).</p> <p>It doesn't seem like any of the hub gears are really that reliable unfortunately. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-113132 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 21:29:42 +0000 gembo 113132@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I had a nexus 8 tht packed in under warranty and EBC managed to replace it and it came with a new back wheel for free which was nice. Packed in again out with warranty. Thought Alfine 8 was supposed to be better? @ Spencerm I agree you should have a new one under warranty but also if they keep packing in might be worth converting? I went for sturmey archer three speed which isn't enough, should have gone for the SA 5 spd. It was Brad who fitted it for me no less. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-113104 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 16:45:38 +0000 spencerm 113104@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There was talk on single track that Brad had set up under another company. Mark is at 2Pure.</p> <p>Back on topic... Madison seem OK with providing a refund. We'll see if they get their before my credit card company! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-113077 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 12:49:44 +0000 wingpig 113077@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I saw an unverified report that Brad was at Edinburgh Cycle Co. in Granton. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-113075 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 12:43:40 +0000 Its_Me_Knees 113075@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not 100% on-topic, but does anyone know what became of TBC people? There was a dark hint on their f/book page that they might reappear in a new guise at some point, and my hybrid needs to be serviced... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-112993 Tue, 04 Jun 2013 18:15:45 +0000 remberbuck 112993@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sorry spencerm for causing confusion - the point that I was trying to make clumsily was that the manufacturer has a place in your chain. Simply the manufacturer of a steel frame with an expected life of 25 years cannot wriggle out of a failure after two years just because you had a warranty of one. Warranties and guarantees after all are not instruments of consumer protection, but declarations of limited liability, that may or may not stack up against expected asset life. </p> <p>And your problem of course is that you do not have a vendor.</p> <p>Sincere advice? Take up the EBC offer of approaching Genesis - you have the advantage that they are a current distributor, or if you are fed up with them take up with Genesis or Shimano direct. </p> <p>(On reflection the question of whether EBC would take over the oversight of any warranty would not feature in an acquisition contract - there is no asset, no liability and no bearing on value - so a verbal "OK we'll do it" would do). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-112992 Tue, 04 Jun 2013 16:37:48 +0000 spencerm 112992@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I've contacted Madison (the distributor) and am awaiting a reply...</p> <p>SRD, I'll give them a shout if Madison and my cc company fall through! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-112991 Tue, 04 Jun 2013 16:14:39 +0000 SRD 112991@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>you could always try these folks too: <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/series/bachelor-and-brignall-consumer-champions" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/series/bachelor-and-brignall-consumer-champions</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-112990 Tue, 04 Jun 2013 16:12:26 +0000 Min 112990@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I've had a fair bit of wriggling from the Coop who claim they're only looking after warranty and not refunds and that TBC has responsibility for refunds.</em></p> <p>Well that is total nonsense since TBC no longer exists there is no-one to claim a refund from.</p> <p>Sorry to hear you got caught up in this. Is there any possibility of recompense from the manufacturer? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-112987 Tue, 04 Jun 2013 15:24:38 +0000 spencerm 112987@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm also exploring Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act, which makes my credit card company jointly liable...</p> <p><a href="http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/can-i-claim-on-my-credit-card-when-something-goes-wrong/">which.co.uk</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-112983 Tue, 04 Jun 2013 14:48:46 +0000 Dave 112983@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I've posted before that when I bought my first 'proper' bike (Edinburgh Courier Race) from the co-op, after a few months the steel fork bent just under the crown. Otherwise the bike was immaculate...</p> <p>Although the shop floor staff were horrified and immediately took it off me with a guarantee to rectify, in the end Edinburgh Bicycle declined to repair it and offered to charge me £xxx to replace. Needless to say I took it down the road to the Bicycle Works who did it for half the price.</p> <p>I'm more savvy now and would probably have Sale of Goods'd them if it happened now, but instead I buy high margin items that I need ASAP from other bike shops. </p> <p>Given our huge annual spend on bikes I should think that shrugged initial responsibility has cost them twenty or more times over by now. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-112964 Tue, 04 Jun 2013 13:49:41 +0000 spencerm 112964@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>'As regards the warranty, in strictness this is nothing to do with the vendor, but between you and the manufacturer'</p> <p>That's in stark contrast to consumer rights. The contract/agreement is between the vendor and purchaser.</p> <p>I was surprised by the lack of contract. Does this mean that anyone who bought anything from TBC can't return it if faulty?</p> <p>Hopefully citizens advice will come back with something useful. Plenty of companies are bought out and warranty/retuns still offered. It would be a known risk of acquiring an ongoing concern.</p> <p>Fingers crossed! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-112956 Tue, 04 Jun 2013 13:35:41 +0000 remberbuck 112956@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It would beggar belief that there was no contract to order and seal this acquisition, occupancy of the premises and title to any stock being the most obvious conditions that would demand this. I wonder if it is the warranty management that is meant by the comment.</p> <p>Sadly, the point about not being responsible for any refunds that originate in a transaction with a previous owner is the commercial norm. Only an innocent is going to take on such an unknown and contingent liability. As regards the warranty, in strictness this is nothing to do with the vendor, but between you and the manufacturer although most will administer this for you as a matter of good customer service, and may be a condition of their contract for the manufacturer.</p> <p>Bottom line is that EBC could walk away from this if they wished, but their offer to look after the warranty from the previous vendor is doing the decent thing. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10356#post-112948 Tue, 04 Jun 2013 13:15:52 +0000 spencerm 112948@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In May 2012 I bought a genesis day one alfine 8 spd from TBC on Rodney St. Service from TBC was excellent. Over the past twelve months I've had a number of problems with it, the main being the hub gear has failed dangerously and been replaced under warranty twice. Last month the hub packed in again.</p> <p>In the period since the hub was last replaced (Jan) TBC has been bought out by the Ed Bike Coop.</p> <p>I've had a fair bit of wriggling from the Coop who claim they're only looking after warranty and not refunds and that TBC has responsibility for refunds.</p> <p>Anyone else had experience of this? I've contacted citizens advice to see where I stand.</p> <p>Struggling to believe the Coop didn't draw up a contract with TBC stating what would happen, but I've been told they only have an informal verbal agreement.</p> <p>Not much use if neither side are playing ball! </p>