CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Edinburgh's worst intersection?

CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Edinburgh's worst intersection? http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Edinburgh's worst intersection? en Thu, 16 Jul 2026 08:59:55 +0000 neddie on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362&page=2#post-285336 Wed, 20 Jun 2018 15:31:23 +0000 neddie 285336@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Thread's previous post by @neddie was 5 years ago. "The King's junction is just too dangerous to wait until 2014/2015" Cool. Well spotted LaidBack on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362&page=2#post-285324 Wed, 20 Jun 2018 13:58:07 +0000 LaidBack 285324@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @bax - things happen slowly in the world of cycling. Thread's previous post by @neddie was 5 years ago. "The King's junction is just too dangerous to wait until 2014/2015" (!) minus six on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362&page=2#post-285190 Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:01:50 +0000 minus six 285190@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Hazardous sunken drain cover on the road adjacent to tram tracks at Shandwick Place junction, just before House Of Fraser eastbound. That's directly across the road at the same spot where Zhi Min Soh died a year ago. Almost caught me out, who knows how long its been like that. neddie on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362&page=2#post-114753 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 21:04:37 +0000 neddie 114753@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ The King's junction is just too dangerous to wait until 2014/2015 when they connect the 'family network' through here (if it even comes through here at all?). Why can't CEC just add another phase to the lights to allow cyclists through on their own? Or at least just do something about the horrific right turn? Andrew Burns cycles through there every day. Why isn't he kicking up hell about it? DaveC on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362&page=2#post-114684 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 11:54:15 +0000 DaveC 114684@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I wonder if we could have some stickers made up to amend all the T signs in Edinburgh. Though where the T is on a cycle route there are signs indicating a through route. <a href="https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=55.960156,-3.233671&spn=0.000024,0.025513&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=55.960177,-3.237909&panoid=nxXdc-KaDWluXITE3tGk6A&cbp=12,295.32,,0,8.54">Here is a prime target</a> SRD on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362&page=2#post-114647 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 09:48:49 +0000 SRD 114647@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <img src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5446/9064185357_538c031d63.jpg"> This is what is needed on mkns' intersection. <a href="http://www.fietsberaad.nl/index.cfm?lang=nl&section=nieuws&mode=newsArticle&repository=A+new+traffic+sign+-+the+living+end+road&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter">Belgium will soon have a new traffic sign that will be referred to as the “living end road” sign. It signals that the road is a blind alley for motorised traffic but not for cyclists and pedestrians.</a> At the end of April a bill to this end was approved, officially paving the way for a new traffic sign with symbols that indicate that the road is a blind alley except for cyclists and pedestrians. A sampling done by the Pedestrians' Movement indicates that 70 to 75 percent of all “blind alley” streets in Belgium allow, in fact, through passage. In the meantime an “action kit” has been made ready for municipalities, containing an instruction and a set of stickers. These stickers portray the symbols for a cyclist and a pedestrian and can be applied to the front of the “F45: blind alley” traffic sign to indicate to cyclists and pedestrians that the road allows through passage for them. The idea is not entirely new. The International Federation of Pedestrians (IFP) had previously suggested that the 'Living End Road' be made known. The road authorities themselves will decide if they wish to make use of this possibility. crowriver on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362&page=2#post-113582 Mon, 10 Jun 2013 01:51:24 +0000 crowriver 113582@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ The roundabout with appended t-junction at the foot of Easter Road/entrance to Leith Links has got to be a contender for worst interesection in Edinburgh. Pelican crossings across three (out of four) roads converging on this roundabout are the only factor calming the traffic here. Not very nice on a bike, but I'm so used to it I sometimes forget how hazardous the junction is... allebong on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362&page=2#post-113581 Mon, 10 Jun 2013 00:59:40 +0000 allebong 113581@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Was going to put this in the rubbish cycling thread but it's probably more relevant here. Also might not be rubbish cycling as such depending on your perspective... So, I'm approaching CCEs most favorite junction, the jewel in Edinburghs model cycling city crown, the shining beacon of national cycling infrastructure, the place everyone just relishes to breeze effortlessly through during rush hour while accompanied by several black taxis, HGVs and double deckers. Yep - Gilmore place at the Kings theatre. I'm doing the standard route to Valleyfield St so right lane for me. Roads were quite quiet, this was 4:30ish on a Sunday after all. Car had already placed itself strategically in the ASZ of course. Guy with a child in a trailer was behind the car and I stop behind him. 3 (or maybe 4) 'young people' on various hybrid and mountain bikes are also trying out this junction, from their behavior I'm guessing their first and only time. Given that they did stop for the light I don't want to be too harsh on them but they were clearly not all that experienced or indeed committed to the whole riding on the roads thing. Picture wobbling slowly about everywhere while looking at each other far more than the road and sharing in some sort of joke all the time. Mostly harmless I'd say in the grand scheme of things. Up to the point where they wobbled into the left lane, and then decided to go right when the lights went, thus cutting up the car (yeah, the one in the ASZ, I know...). Caused a bit of a mess for me and trailer guy as you can imagine. OK that car shouldn't have been there but if he'd been outside the ASZ he'd only be a couple of meters back and the same thing would happen, or I might have been in the ASZ and have to deal with getting left hooked by a bunch of bikes of all things. Not really the best move in my mind but they do say 'never assume malice where stupidity will do' (or thereabouts) and I don't think these guys had set out to be problematic, they seemed blissfully ignorant of everything going on. I almost envy them. chdot on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362&page=2#post-113535 Sat, 08 Jun 2013 11:47:03 +0000 chdot 113535@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " Jon Snow (@jonsnowC4) 08/06/2013 11:31 Is London's Haymarket the most potholed urban road surface in Britain?..Has Wedtminster City Council (UKs richest) run out of cash?) " Kenny on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362&page=2#post-113530 Sat, 08 Jun 2013 09:55:56 +0000 Kenny 113530@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ If the definition of "worst intersection" were to mean the greatest likelihood of being hit by a car in proportion to the number of times using the junction, then the junction highlighted by the green arrow (not the red marker, damn you Google Maps) is vastly worse than any other in Edinburgh, IMHO: <img src="http://www.irreverence.co.uk/img/danger.png"> If you are heading west from Ocean Terminal, and are *not* turning left up North Leith Sands but are instead heading west straight on towards ASDA, then you are in grave danger of being t-boned by a car coming northwards downhill on North Leith Sands. The reason for this is that virtually no-one goes straight on (i.e. continuing west towards ASDA), since it is a cul-de-sac for cars, but there is access at the end for peds/cycles. Every day I go through this junction, and almost every time a car comes down that road, I have to be very aware that they are almost certainly going to go straight over, turning right towards OT, as they will assume I will be turning left. Indeed, yesterday someone actually stopped correctly, and I thanked them because it is such a rare occurrence. I'm very surprised no-one's been killed or seriously injured there (or maybe they have and I am unaware of it). Dave and I have both had very close calls at that spot. Beware. Snowy on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362&page=2#post-113239 Thu, 06 Jun 2013 11:30:22 +0000 Snowy 113239@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Red light cameras might help for the ones jumping the lights to turn right into GP. If we were giving the benefit of the doubt, the junction design is dreadful and I suspect that a lot of the RLJs feel that that they have already crossed the stop line and are somehow 'entitled' to keep going (or set off again) and complete their turn. But, in reality, I use this most days to turn right out of GP and I see a lot of blatant genuine RLJs. But let's face it, that's a sticking plaster solution. The light phasing needs a complete overhaul. Oh, and could someone please fill in the craters? chdot on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362&page=2#post-113190 Thu, 06 Jun 2013 10:06:30 +0000 chdot 113190@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Is this true? Not doubting regular users. Coming out of Tarvit Street, it's red while the filter is on for vehicles turning left out of GP. Then goes green, usually still vehicles coming out of GP, but I'd never noticed/realised lights in GP then went red. Shutting TS still best option keeping light phase for bikes - possibly even extended? Other local issue is that there really ought to be cycle contra-flow on Valleyfield Street. Might be part of Family Network redesign?? steveo on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362&page=2#post-113185 Thu, 06 Jun 2013 09:54:44 +0000 steveo 113185@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ What is worst about that junction is that there is no way for those coming along Gilmore Place to know that traffic leaving Tarvit Street has a green light phase that is longer than theirs Seriously?! What half wit thought that up! chdot on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362#post-113150 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 23:18:38 +0000 chdot 113150@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Just seen - " John Lauder (@John_Lauder) 05/06/2013 11:55 @SRDorman @Edinburgh_CC 2/2 re. re-aligning route NCN75 there; depends on agreement with developers; then ASAP thereafter as Community Link " If that means Lochrin Place to canal basin, SHOULD be covered by planning permission(?) chdot on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362#post-113149 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 23:11:43 +0000 chdot 113149@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ New route will be via Lochrin Place when current new development finished. But don't think that'll help most people using GP - unless they shut Tarvit... SRD on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362#post-113147 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 23:03:46 +0000 SRD 113147@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I don't think it's too much to ask that a cycle route follow the shortest and flattest distance between two well-used off-road paths. The good news is that John Lauder from sustrans confirms on twitter that "junction being re-designed within ATAP. For future we're planning new NCN75 through there" I'd had some impression that the new route might go elsewhere nearby. if it actually goes through here, and results in serious junction improvement, then I'll be delighted. allebong on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362#post-113142 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 22:44:11 +0000 allebong 113142@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I used to go the Leamington Terrace way and down the meadows but I found it quite frustrating if I was in a hurry as opposed to just cruising. The grind up Leamington Terrace itself gets tedious after a while and if the meadows are busy then heading down Leamington Walk is rather trying at the best of times. At least by blasting along Gilmore Place I can get onto Melville drive pretty quickly. As I said though this is the perspective of someone who doesn't have to commute this during rush hour. kaputnik on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362#post-113130 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 21:07:07 +0000 kaputnik 113130@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Another one of Edinburgh's messy junctions where there's just no sensible, safe alternative for those on 2 wheels. Rosie on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362#post-113124 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 20:17:26 +0000 Rosie 113124@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I work in Foutainbridge so if I'm heading to the Causewayside area I would go along Gilmore Park, and then up Leamington Road. On the section between Rope Walk and Gilmore Place I'm going the wrong way up a one way street (a quiet one). It's a nice route, but it certainly is the long way round. The Gilmore Place/Tarvit Street intersection is terrifying. cc on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362#post-113123 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 19:01:34 +0000 cc 113123@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Sounds like it needs a separate phase for each direction and at least one separate phase for bicycles and bollards across Tarvit Street and only one lane on Gilmore Place and protected cycle lanes, to say nothing of resurfacing. When I go from the canal to the Meadows I avoid that junction entirely and instead go from Lower Gilmore Place straight across Gilmore Place into Upper Gilmore Place, then up Leamington Terrace, across the cycle crossing and down the Leamington Walk cycle path to the Meadows. lionfish on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362#post-113121 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 18:31:33 +0000 lionfish 113121@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "To be fair to Sustrans, the issues with their routes are primarily within urban areas" I didn't mean to criticise Sustrans - I think they're doing a great job with what they've got - I just feel the <strike>council</strike>Scottish Government needs to help them and actually spend some effort/"political capital"/money on making the Sustrans routes better. "only to have cyclechic woman try to cut me off (remember, I am going straight, she is turning), while lycra guy swears at her 'for F*s sake'" *sigh* b****y cyclists ;P SRD on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362#post-113113 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 17:58:51 +0000 SRD 113113@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ amusingly...I was coming through tonight. sat at the lights at tarvit street, watching two cyclists opposite -- sporty looking guy on racer, helmet, maybe some lycra and an older, cyclechic woman on upright European style bik -- but mainly concerned for two young female cyclists who had come up and sat between me and kerb <grrr>. Lights changed. I shot off, only to have cyclechic woman try to cut me off (remember, I am going straight, she is turning), while lycra guy swears at her 'for F*s sake' . I managed an 'Excuse me, I have priority', which I thought was pretty good, all things considered. mgj on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362#post-113112 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 17:25:29 +0000 mgj 113112@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ What is worst about that junction is that there is no way for those coming along Gilmore Place to know that traffic leaving Tarvit Street has a green light phase that is longer than theirs. I see from comments above that most people just assume that when the light is red for those coming out of GP, it is also red for TS, and that isnt the case, so those tunring right up BP for example think that many of those exiting TS are jumping a red light when they arent due to the phasing. SRD on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362#post-113095 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 15:38:37 +0000 SRD 113095@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @lionfish what drives me crazy about those rat-runners is how they are all* desperate to get past me to get the lights - even when those are green. *okay, all is unfair and inaccurate but at least every two days, I get someone doing that as I toodle along at a reasonable pace, while they rev their engine, hoot at me, or overtake at great speed only to slam on brakes 3 seconds later sallyhinch on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362#post-113084 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 13:30:09 +0000 sallyhinch 113084@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ NCN 7 down here isn't that great - it's actually better in town than on the rural roads. The stretch from Dumfries to Glencaple is on a B road that's actually one of the more unpleasant roads to cycle on round here as there's some sharp doglegs with poor visibility. I've yet to meet a cyclist who's at all nervous who will contemplate it - and most experienced cyclists regard it with some trepidation, and generally take another road. There is a river path that with some upgrading would be an excellent alternative but because that part of the network is already complete, there's no money to improve it. It's a shame because when Sustrans do stuff properly they produce really cracking routes crowriver on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362#post-113082 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 13:23:00 +0000 crowriver 113082@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ To be fair to Sustrans, the issues with their routes are primarily within urban areas. With a few exceptions, most of the rural routes are pretty good, often providing quiet on-road alternatives to fast, busy A or B roads. I find the rural Sustrans routes handy when planning DIY audax rides or touring with the family. Granted, I'm not 12, but do take my kids on the NCN routes. sallyhinch on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362#post-113080 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 13:18:56 +0000 sallyhinch 113080@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Sustrans' own design standards are that the on-road network should be ridable by a competent 12-year-old on their own, or a novice of any age in a group. Anyone got a British standard 12-year-old Sustrans can borrow for testing their on road network? Because the one they're using at the moment is clearly a highly trained vehicular cyclist with iron nerves... lionfish on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362#post-113074 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 12:31:44 +0000 lionfish 113074@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @DaveC & allebong: sorry! I didn't mean to suggest they were going the wrong way! I guess mentioning it's one-way was a bit of a red herring. They're not breaking the rules, I've just noticed a lot more cars using it as a route around the traffic lights etc (I guess). So going from Melville Drive to Bruntsfield Place!! Sorry people! I reread what I wrote and that's exactly how it sounded. Ugh, I'll try to be more careful next time :) allebong on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362#post-113073 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 12:27:16 +0000 allebong 113073@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I have to deal with the pleasures of this intersection quite regularly, fortunately outside of rush hour most of the time. Based on the comments here I'm thinking it might be worth doing some 'covert' filming of traffic and bike flow through it to show to the interested parties (Sustrans, CEC even...). Bonus points if we can catch any real bad behavior like the one-way nonsense as experienced by Lionfish. DaveC on "Edinburgh's worst intersection?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10362#post-113071 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 12:09:13 +0000 DaveC 113071@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Lionfish said "I've noticed more and more cars sneaking (at speed) through the one-way bit at Leven Terrace. If you see this then you should report it to the police at the nearest station, though I think St Leonards are responsible for that street, Valleyfeild Street yes? I can't see why they would cut through that long one way street the wrong way when Glengyle terrace is a few yards further on. Even if the police don't do anything, you should keep reporting and then complain to your local councillor who should chase it up with the police.