http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: 6mph on Canal en Wed, 13 May 2026 05:44:37 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=3#post-176213 Thu, 18 Dec 2014 21:41:40 +0000 Greenroofer 176213@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Laidback - that sign is frankly ridiculous. A cyclist following it to the letter would be better walking: it's a direct contradiction of the NCN sign below it and the John Muir sign beside it because there's no way that sign could seriously be used on something that's meant to be a cyclepath.</p> <p>If cyclists coming in opposite directions meet, do they have to give way to each other? How does that work?</p> <p>It's also in the previous style of British Waterways signs: the newer Scottish Canals ones are in a different font and layout. Maybe it's just been forgotten... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=3#post-176207 Thu, 18 Dec 2014 21:04:56 +0000 chdot 176207@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>One of the chicane gates seems to be 'open'</p> <p>Would make sense if the other was too. </p> <p>At least the path has been surfaced. Is it flags/slabs?</p> <p>If so hope they are properly laid. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=3#post-176206 Thu, 18 Dec 2014 20:52:17 +0000 Chug 176206@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I love how that new temporary path dumps peds (&amp; cyclists) out in the middle of the chicane.</em></p> <p>it's the way the half-open chicane forces you against the wall and even at walking pace you can get a nasty surprise if someone steps out (as do they). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=3#post-176201 Thu, 18 Dec 2014 20:42:29 +0000 neddie 176201@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I love how that new temporary path dumps peds (&amp; cyclists) out in the middle of the chicane. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=3#post-176200 Thu, 18 Dec 2014 20:39:12 +0000 Dave 176200@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I had a discussion with another cyclist on the aqueduct a month or two back. He said 'but there's a sign, so you should dismount. If it said 10,000V you wouldn't touch it'. I didn't have the heart to point out that if he obeyed every optional sign he saw, he'd be continually eating, drinking and buying things and going to places that he didn't want to...</em></p> <p>Fast forward to my inevitable dotage, and while I'm slipping away on my death bed thinking deep thoughts, there's <em>absolutely no way</em> I'll be wishing I'd paid more attention to every strident little sign that ever there was.</p> <p>In fact, if I find myself on my death bed and I never once fell in the canal and had a great laugh with the footage afterwards, I will be sorely disappointed. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=3#post-176193 Thu, 18 Dec 2014 18:55:11 +0000 LaidBack 176193@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Here's a sign I found. I was looking for the old red circle sign but it's here.</p> <p>If you joined canal along the way you wouldn't see this.</p> <p><a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/66067108@N08/15862837118/"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7533/15862837118_8912ac6775_z.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/66067108@N08/15862837118/">NCN 75 Canal Advice</a> by <a href="https://www.flickr.com/people/66067108@N08/">LaidBackBikes</a>, on Flickr</p> <p>Plus the cut through is back at Gibson Terrace.<br /> <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/66067108@N08/16048164501/"><img src="https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8674/16048164501_cac581e07f_z.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/66067108@N08/16048164501/">NCN 75 Canal to Gibson Terrace</a> by <a href="https://www.flickr.com/people/66067108@N08/">LaidBackBikes</a>, on Flickr </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=3#post-176054 Wed, 17 Dec 2014 11:37:48 +0000 Greenroofer 176054@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Dave. This is presumably why the signs at each end of the Slateford aqueduct are not red circles with bikes in, but instead are blue rectangles with some text. The signs they replaced even used to say 'please dismount', but they've got a bit sterner with the recent upgrade.</p> <p>I had a discussion with another cyclist on the aqueduct a month or two back. He said 'but there's a sign, so you should dismount. If it said 10,000V you wouldn't touch it'. I didn't have the heart to point out that if he obeyed <em>every</em> optional sign he saw, he'd be continually eating, drinking and buying things and going to places that he didn't want to... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=3#post-176047 Wed, 17 Dec 2014 10:41:03 +0000 Dave 176047@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I'm not sure what any of you mean by "enforceable". It seem to be used as meaning the same as "active enforced" whereas what it means is that if it were to be policed it could be enforced by some kind of sanction.</em></p> <p>To me, an enforceable sign is one which has some basis in criminal law, i.e. you could be prosecuted if you contravene it.</p> <p>We have signs in our office toilets about washing our hands. These are not enforceable (which is not to make any comment on how advisable it is to avoid poisoning yourself by not washing your hands).</p> <p>In contrast a red circle 20mph sign is enforceable. It's not relevant that the police choose not to enforce it in practice.</p> <p>As far as I'm aware, even if the canal were actually a road, the speed limit signs themselves are non-enforceable simply because they don't comply with the mandatory regulations for the size, location, and frequency of signage. They don't need to, since the landowners are free to put up whatever they like on their own land, and more luck to them. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=3#post-176029 Wed, 17 Dec 2014 08:20:47 +0000 gembo 176029@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The canal signs all get ignored. Occasional jolly barge an or water bailiff may give an opinion but won't do anything. The speed limit ones however on suburban streets could come with added polis to enforce </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-176025 Wed, 17 Dec 2014 01:05:23 +0000 Instography 176025@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm not sure what any of you mean by "enforceable". It seem to be used as meaning the same as "active enforced" whereas what it means is that if it were to be policed it could be enforced by some kind of sanction.</p> <p>In that sense, 20mph speed limits are enforceable - they are backed by some law and if they choose to, the police could record people exceeding the limit and impose some kind of sanction. The only sense in which a 6mph speed limit on the canal is unenforceable is if there is no possibility of any properly qualified authority imposing any effective sanction on people who break it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-176021 Wed, 17 Dec 2014 00:28:11 +0000 LaidBack 176021@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If there was a legally enforceable 6mph limit on canal then it it more or less says the path is to be walked.<br /> I do agree that interactions with other users should be careful. Mark Stephen saw that we slowed right down close to walkers and thanked them - not assuming they should move out of our way.<br /> 20mph road situation is different. As Dave says it's only a percentage slower than the legal speed and quite a bit faster than an urban average speed.<br /> 6mph is around half the speed that bikes move at easily.<br /> In zones where cars are asked to go at 10mph they rarely do - but that's another story.</p> <p>Some cyclists do of course use their flexible form of transport in a way that bends the rules. This forum enjoys pointing out the contradictions but at least has started talking about pedestrian rights and how they often suffer convulated routes. (eg George St has some great examples of how not to make direct pedestrian crossings...) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175987 Tue, 16 Dec 2014 18:25:43 +0000 Dave 175987@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>when there is a suggestion that an appropriate speed for a narrow, shared space is implemented, and that dismounting is appropriate for one point, the special pleading comes out.</em></p> <p>Straw man. It would only be special pleading if one could show that the danger posed by cyclists and motorised traffic is at all similar. I don't think anyone will bother dignifying that with an attempt.</p> <p>Or to put it another way... you walk home from the pub over the drink-drive limit? Why not just drive? Special pleading that the law technically only applies behind the wheel? There's no real difference between fake speed signs for cyclists and a TV ad asking pedestrians not to walk home wasted.</p> <p>On a more pragmatic note, even if you lived at the pub in Ratho and worked at the basin at the Lothian Rd end, it would take 3 hours each day to do even that modest a cycle commute at 6mph. It's no wonder that it is widely ignored - in contrast driving at 20mph along the Grange takes an extra ~35 seconds. That seems like something we can reasonably expect people to be OK with. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175984 Tue, 16 Dec 2014 17:43:26 +0000 dougal 175984@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@mgj Safety signs should be enforceable where posted or not posted at all. Unenforceable signs encourage the mindset that such signs don't mean anything. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175983 Tue, 16 Dec 2014 17:37:48 +0000 kaputnik 175983@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@mgj I'd say my "special pleading " around the speed thing is that a car has a speedo to help it be driven within a limit and a bike does not. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175982 Tue, 16 Dec 2014 17:17:54 +0000 mgj 175982@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>20 mph speed limits in the Grange are "unenforceable", and yet folk on here seem very keen on waxing lyrical about car drivers approach to speed, yet when there is a suggestion that an appropriate speed for a narrow, shared space is implemented, and that dismounting is appropriate for one point, the special pleading comes out. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175880 Mon, 15 Dec 2014 13:58:33 +0000 Stickman 175880@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A prototype for a bike version of Hobart's Funnies? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175878 Mon, 15 Dec 2014 13:55:36 +0000 DaveC 175878@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I just attached a flail to the front, driven off my front wheel with an old chain connected to a single speed wheel, on the front. Now I don't find pedestrians a problem anymore, indeed more and more appear to want to go swimming in the canal as I approach! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175869 Mon, 15 Dec 2014 13:14:19 +0000 Dave 175869@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ideally, your 'ride like your granny' bike will have a triple in which case you just need to restrict yourself to the bottom gear. If your bottom gear is big enough to go over 10mph then I can see it could lead to speedo-gazing :) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175832 Mon, 15 Dec 2014 10:41:22 +0000 kaputnik 175832@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Without average speed cameras the limit is a nonsense. Cyclists just slow down to 6mph for the sign and then floor it once they're past, back up to, say, 14mph. Of course, not having a speedo, I just have to guess what speed I'm going at when I pass the sign...</p> <p>Let's campaign for Union Canal Average Speed Cameras <strong>NOW</strong>.</p> <p>I tried Dave's 10mph "ride like your granny" challenge once on the way home, it was very difficult and took a lot of concentration to a/ maintain the speed, checking speedo more than where I was going and it isn't the speed at which the bike is naturally most stable / manoeuvrable. For some reason I always have 14mph as a good speed in my head for parks, it seems to offer an optimum of not <em>feeling</em> like you're going too slow and allows you to slow to 10mph in seconds or stop in metres. 15mph would be too much. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175826 Mon, 15 Dec 2014 10:01:19 +0000 dougal 175826@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Does the 2mph include pub stops? Do I have to stay for another just to reduce my average speed? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175811 Sun, 14 Dec 2014 23:16:22 +0000 Dave 175811@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>6mph just about fast enough to ride at, although it is much slower than foot pace (last weekend I ran a half marathon across the Pentlands at considerably more than 6mph average pace, so I dare to say I could also exceed it on the canal ;-)</p> <p>We should campaign for it to be lower so that it's even more absurd. I think 2 or 3mph, so regular pedestrians and dog walkers are also breaking the limit. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175767 Sun, 14 Dec 2014 12:08:30 +0000 gembo 175767@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes I meant you could read them as giving advice rather than a legal thing like laidback' heckler seemed to think they were.</p> <p>Was once heckled by bare chested man drinking buckfast on the aqueduct whom I had slowed down for and leant into the railing to allow him to pass. </p> <p>The sign says Dismount. Why have you not gotten off? He asked.</p> <p>I replied because the sign is unenforceable. He seemed happy enough with this response. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175766 Sun, 14 Dec 2014 12:06:45 +0000 chdot 175766@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Came up as was doing some cycling on the radio with Mark Stephen BBC Radio Scotland 'Out of Doors' programme.(On again 11am today)."</p> <p>On NOW! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175765 Sun, 14 Dec 2014 12:02:31 +0000 chdot 175765@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"In one way they are advisory"</p> <p>In all ways really, as they are unenforceable and don't seem to have any legal basis. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175763 Sun, 14 Dec 2014 11:54:01 +0000 gembo 175763@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The 6 mph signs were near the aqueduct and maybe some bridges? As were the cyclists slow down signs.</p> <p>And indeed the cyclists dismount signs</p> <p>In one way they are advisory - you might fall in the water or bang into each other</p> <p>I once stopped completely for a pedestrian standing in the middle of the towpath. However, it then transpired she seemed to want me to dismount and push my bike around her. Rather than her deviate from middle of path.</p> <p>My mother just related a story from when she was a hairdresser in kilbarchan in the sixties when she would be giving a customer a shampoo and set and Mrs Samson would arrive in the shop from the Big House. Mrs Samson was six foot wore a turban as she had two hairs and a shoogly one. Christine Mrs samson would bellow, I am here now attend to me.</p> <p>Perception you see is a tricky phenomenon </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175761 Sun, 14 Dec 2014 11:33:49 +0000 LaidBack 175761@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Came up as was doing some cycling on the radio with Mark Stephen BBC Radio Scotland 'Out of Doors' programme.(On again 11am today).</p> <p>They have FaceBook page and apart from expected 'recumbents are dangerous / too low' comment one person said that I appeared to not care that I was cycling too fast for canal limit. </p> <p><a href="https://www.facebook.com/bbc.out.of.doors" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/bbc.out.of.doors</a></p> <p>Actually the whole thing was carried out politely with us slowing right down and thanking people with bells when appropriate. I posted up teh Scottish Waterways page and as you people say there is not speed advice given - other than take care. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175755 Sun, 14 Dec 2014 10:50:25 +0000 gembo 175755@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Used to have a trainee working for our service who had previously carried out an MSc in ecological psychology on the use of shared paths.</p> <p>Her conclusion was that pedestrians like a bell but they also appreciate you talking to them, e.g. I am passing you on the RHS now.</p> <p>I try to do this. Seems to cause less gip. Also thanking people for letting you past goes down well with some, e.g. Big John</p> <p>Does not work if pedestrian / jogger is wearing earphones.</p> <p>I have never dismounted and pushed at a bridge but will get out the saddle and propel myself along slowly with my foot which takes up less room than dismounting.</p> <p>None of this stops boy racers. Young, dumb and full of ...(catchphrase from Gay at Times circa 1990) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175752 Sun, 14 Dec 2014 01:10:12 +0000 SimonS 175752@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>According to the Skippers advice on scottishcanals.co.uk the speed limit for boats on the Forth &amp; Clye and Union canals is 4 mph.</p> <p>Their Towpath code of conduct for walkers, cyclists etc does not mention a speed limit. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175746 Sat, 13 Dec 2014 23:27:06 +0000 Snowy 175746@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's always been unclear if the 6mph refers to the towpath or the waterway. I prefer to think the latter.</p> <p>Pretty pointless anyway. Every jogger goes faster than that! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10374&page=2#post-175744 Sat, 13 Dec 2014 22:56:53 +0000 LaidBack 175744@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>6mph signs? Got a Facebook comment that I should obey this. Can't find anything on Scottish Waterways site. I agree people should cycle carefully close to pedestrians but 6mph all the time? Not enforceable of course.<br /> Is marked as NCN75 so if it was it would take days to use canal. Charity events such as CHSS Canal Ride from Glasgow to Ratho couldn't happen. </p>