http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: THE Helmet Thread en Sun, 17 May 2026 21:51:23 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-382708 Fri, 09 Jan 2026 15:06:11 +0000 neddie 382708@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote>10.7% of helmeted cyclists [that were involved in serious crashes and impact to the head] suffered serious spine injuries, compared to 5.4% of un-helmeted cyclists</blockquote></p> <p>Wearing a helmet doubles your chances of a spinal injury</p> <p><a href="https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/default/files/document/2020/01/helmets-evidence_cuk_brf_0.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/default/files/document/2020/01/helmets-evidence_cuk_brf_0.pdf</a> (page 9) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-375511 Tue, 18 Jun 2024 12:01:34 +0000 gembo 375511@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Interesting also that older women in more accidents as Women are way better drivers at youngest age range and about same at other ages.</p> <p>But basically upside down bell curve for both populations. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-375509 Tue, 18 Jun 2024 10:37:42 +0000 neddie 375509@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Wow. I did not expect that. I stand corrected.</p> <p>Perhaps the graph I saw was not corrected for miles-driven, giving overall lower figures for older people, as they drive less?</p> <p>I'd be interested to see the same graph for absolute casualties versus age and also casualities corrected <em>per journey</em></p> <p>I'm now going to have a chat with my mother... </p> <p>(my father stopped driving decades ago, mainly because he could see the harm that it caused) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-375508 Tue, 18 Jun 2024 10:32:09 +0000 gembo 375508@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks @frenchy I thought my anecdata was correct in terms of over 70s </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-375507 Tue, 18 Jun 2024 10:15:53 +0000 Frenchy 375507@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A graph of rate of KSI casualties per billion miles by gender and age group of car drivers is here: <a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-older-and-younger-driver-factsheets-2022/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-younger-driver-factsheet-2022" rel="nofollow">https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-older-and-younger-driver-factsheets-2022/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-younger-driver-factsheet-2022</a></p> <p>Risk goes down with age until about 40 years old, then is flat for a while before increasing again from about age 70. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-375504 Tue, 18 Jun 2024 10:02:05 +0000 neddie 375504@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm willing to bet if you follow the money trail through the NGO / "grassroots" organisations presented in the article, you'll find it leads back to the automotive / fossil fuel industry.</p> <p>Because they aren't grassroots at all, they are astroturf organisations, no doubt funded by dubious sources.</p> <p>The reason for this is the motor industry have worked out that if they can crack* helmet wearing in the Netherlands, it will soon become mandatory worldwide. And that will lead to fewer people cycling and fewer "obstacles**" in the way of cars</p> <p>*Pun intended<br /> **Except that they are their own self-defeating obstacles! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-375503 Tue, 18 Jun 2024 09:53:40 +0000 neddie 375503@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote>Older drivers are certainly statistically poorer drivers</blockquote></p> <p>Pretty sure this isn't true, at least statistically, although there may be a spike in crashes for very old people i.e. 90+</p> <p>Older drivers may have poorer eyesight, slower reactions, etc, but risk-compensation comes into play. They know their limits and drive slower and/or more carefully and/or avoid nighttime / avoid difficult junctions, etc to compensate. Also many have "self-retired" from driving, so the crashes you do see are the result of the hardy few that insist on continuing to drive. </p> <p>It's young drivers that present by far the greatest risk per mile and that risk steadily decreases with age, even into the 70s and 80s</p> <p>There is a nice graph that demostrates this somewhere... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-375499 Tue, 18 Jun 2024 08:14:04 +0000 gembo 375499@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>How old do you need to be before you. Become an older rider?</p> <p>Asking for a friend.</p> <p>Older drivers are certainly statistically poorer drivers hence the need in previous times for reapplying for their licence.</p> <p>We also shopped my father in law a kind and generous man to the DVLA as his poor driving aged 85 made him a menace to society.</p> <p>So maybe very old dutchies are at risk or maybe this is marketing? I shall ask a big Dutch Wookie I know when I see him up Scotmid. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-375495 Mon, 17 Jun 2024 22:07:16 +0000 Greenroofer 375495@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'd suggest that in this case it's not drivers ruining everything.</p> <p>It's easy to imagine scenarios where the increasing incidence of injuries to older riders is to do with the access to higher speeds/heavier bikes than they could manage unassisted, and therefore that the incidents that cause injury may well not involve another vehicle. The injuries may be be simple falls from a bicycle.</p> <p>So in this case helmets could be serving the purpose for which they are designed and tested (stationary fall from head height). I'd therefore say that the reasons in favour of wearing one for this group are a bit stronger than for younger adults. Whether there is a societal benefit from encouraging older riders to wear them is a different question. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-375471 Sun, 16 Jun 2024 20:21:49 +0000 neddie 375471@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I wonder how many additional years of life are gained, and how many additional “good quality health” years are gained, by those e-bike-riding elderly people? The same elderly people that wouldn’t bother/be able to ride were it not for e-bikes? Then factor in how many would be put off by the need (social or otherwise) to don a helmet…</p> <p>FFS, drivers ruin everything </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-375469 Sun, 16 Jun 2024 20:13:55 +0000 gembo 375469@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Helmets effective under 12.5mph</p> <p>E-bikes go at 15.5 mph</p> <p>Though I imagine Dutch cars go faster. And in Kilometers, </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-375468 Sun, 16 Jun 2024 20:10:28 +0000 neddie 375468@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And Myrthe Boss‘s qualifications to speak on helmet use are what exactly? - that her mother was killed by a driver? (Note that the article doesn’t mention a driver, only a “car”) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-375465 Sun, 16 Jun 2024 18:56:37 +0000 Greenroofer 375465@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This one interesting<br /> <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/16/the-brain-is-very-vulnerable-dutch-cyclists-urged-to-wear-helmets-as-road-deaths-rise" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/16/the-brain-is-very-vulnerable-dutch-cyclists-urged-to-wear-helmets-as-road-deaths-rise</a></p> <p>I'm sure I've heard before from the Netherlands that older cyclists on e-bikes are proving to a be a high-risk group... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-375464 Sun, 16 Jun 2024 14:24:15 +0000 acsimpson 375464@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The message is addressed to all dad's. Vital protection against little ones tantrums. Nothing hurts more than a bare headed rattle battle </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-375458 Sun, 16 Jun 2024 10:34:47 +0000 neddie 375458@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I see we now have celebrity chefs thinking they’re medical experts. Or even thinking they understand the health impacts at societal level of “wEar A hElmeT”</p> <p><a href="https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1002z9vne3o" rel="nofollow">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1002z9vne3o</a></p> <p>No indication as to whether a driver was involved </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-373553 Thu, 22 Feb 2024 16:06:34 +0000 chdot 373553@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>"I had cyclists telling me I was a disgrace for saying my helmet saved my life": Dan Walker recalls helmet backlash after being knocked off bike by driver </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://road.cc/content/news/dan-walker-recalls-helmet-backlash-after-driver-hit-him-306887" rel="nofollow">https://road.cc/content/news/dan-walker-recalls-helmet-backlash-after-driver-hit-him-306887</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-371646 Sat, 11 Nov 2023 09:40:55 +0000 chdot 371646@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>I’m often asked about/criticised over posting pics on my upright bike without wearing a helmet. This piece explains why it’s a much more nuanced debate than most people take the time for. If you’re interested, please do read in full. Thanks<br /> @rouleur for the space to explore.</p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://x.com/SportsOrla/status/1722883794124845282" rel="nofollow">https://x.com/SportsOrla/status/1722883794124845282</a></p> <p><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53328218899_a73465bd3c_z.jpg"></p> <p><a href="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53328218899_a73465bd3c_b.jpg">BIGGER</a></p> <p>Mostly reasonable DM piece</p> <p>“</p> <p>The broadcaster encouraged people not to respond to posts on her social media accounts with negative responses but asked people instead to lobby their local MPs for better cycling safety initiatives. </p> <p>The UK Government's stance remains that it encourages helmet wearing but hasn't introduced legislation to make it illegal to not wear one - despite multiple attempts in recent years by politicians to change the law. </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-12734403/amp/Eurosport-presenter-Orla-Chennaoui-sparks-backlash-cycling-without-helmet-including-16mph-e-bike-claiming-SAFER-not-wear-one-makes-drivers-careful.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-12734403/amp/Eurosport-presenter-Orla-Chennaoui-sparks-backlash-cycling-without-helmet-including-16mph-e-bike-claiming-SAFER-not-wear-one-makes-drivers-careful.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-371191 Mon, 16 Oct 2023 20:50:41 +0000 chdot 371191@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/the-big-bike-helmet-debate-readers-reject-change-in-law/" rel="nofollow">https://roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/the-big-bike-helmet-debate-readers-reject-change-in-law/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-370708 Sat, 23 Sep 2023 23:14:50 +0000 chdot 370708@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://news.sky.com/video/ed-davey-arrives-at-lib-dem-conference-by-bike-to-fire-starting-gun-on-general-election-12968058" rel="nofollow">https://news.sky.com/video/ed-davey-arrives-at-lib-dem-conference-by-bike-to-fire-starting-gun-on-general-election-12968058</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-365165 Thu, 08 Dec 2022 14:17:02 +0000 Murun Buchstansangur 365165@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://twitter.com/EdinPolNE/status/1600800954214977537" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/EdinPolNE/status/1600800954214977537</a></p> <p>"4 cyclists stopped and spoken in regards to various matters including lack of lights and protective headwear</p> <p>6 roadside breath tests conducted - all negative result" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-354558 Sun, 12 Sep 2021 14:00:06 +0000 chdot 354558@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://road.cc/content/news/scottish-active-travel-minister-slated-no-helmet-286177" rel="nofollow">https://road.cc/content/news/scottish-active-travel-minister-slated-no-helmet-286177</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-354310 Fri, 03 Sep 2021 19:46:40 +0000 Greenroofer 354310@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I had a thought about pedestrian head injuries quoted. I wonder how many of these arise when someone faints or collapses and falls <em>backwards</em> without breaking their fall, hitting the back of their skull on the ground. Falls like this are what cause the tragic one-punch kills outside pubs.</p> <p>Falls off a bike will usually have a forward or sideways component, so perhaps less likely to have the head strike the ground directly.</p> <p>Just goes to show how complicated this question is.</p> <p>The answer, though, is safe infrastructure. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-354308 Fri, 03 Sep 2021 18:39:08 +0000 chdot 354308@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“did involve coming off on loose gravel flying down Maidens Cleugh on a MTB and a Boulder to helmet collision“</p> <p>Few people would suggest that such helmet use was inappropriate. </p> <p>There is an argument that helmets encourage (some) people to be more bold/reckless. </p> <p>Similar arguments have been used about seatbelts… </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-354301 Fri, 03 Sep 2021 17:15:56 +0000 mcairney 354301@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I’ve been saved from severe injury by a helmet in the past (though that did involve coming off on loose gravel flying down Maidens Cleugh on a MTB and a Boulder to helmet collision). And I probably do wear one more often than not but I’d quite like to not be compelled to wear one even fir a trip to the shops </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-354298 Fri, 03 Sep 2021 17:04:34 +0000 Baldcyclist 354298@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Oh, this thread popping up a good reminder to go an buy a lid before going back to office in Oct.</p> <p>Cracked my last one in two falling off a skateboard.</p> <p>(not making any points) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=30#post-354294 Fri, 03 Sep 2021 16:36:59 +0000 gembo 354294@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The first article from 2014 starts strongly. Riskier to get head injuries in a car. Teenage drivers should wear helmets. This is seen as prepsoterous.</p> <p>Weaker on helmets cause injuries. As Ian Walker gave up on wigs etc and went with nothing works build infra. And neck injuriy research IIRC is the old leather Sean Connery helmets?</p> <p>Not sure why it is out and about? Published 2014 and citing 1978 research.</p> <p>The second article not really about Helmets but about The Tragedy of the Commons.</p> <p>Both were good reads. Thanks @fimm </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=29#post-354292 Fri, 03 Sep 2021 15:25:33 +0000 fimm 354292@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Good article on helmets<br /> <a href="https://how-sen.com/journal/2014/2/bike-helmets" rel="nofollow">https://how-sen.com/journal/2014/2/bike-helmets</a></p> <p>and really interesting article on helmets, climate change, and collective action:<br /> <a href="https://how-sen.com/journal/2014/5/what-bike-helmets-can-teach-us-about-climate-change" rel="nofollow">https://how-sen.com/journal/2014/5/what-bike-helmets-can-teach-us-about-climate-change</a></p> <p>Both are quite old so I don't know why the first one was doing the rounds on twitter today. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=29#post-352369 Fri, 02 Jul 2021 16:02:42 +0000 chdot 352369@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“is some kind of joke/insincere trolling? Perhaps because I'm not embedded in the "cycling culture", “</p> <p>Don’t worry, even ‘regulars’ on here don’t always understand things. </p> <p>Irony doesn’t always travel well on the internet. Usually not worth over-analysing. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=29#post-352368 Fri, 02 Jul 2021 15:52:38 +0000 Yodhrin 352368@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From reading the posts here I'm not quite sure if the disingenuousness inherent in comparing the evidence for the efficacy of vaccines against the evidence(or lack of it, rather) for helmet use is some kind of joke/insincere trolling? Perhaps because I'm not embedded in the "cycling culture", I'd always been under the impression that it was fairly uncontroversial that they're Safety Theatre for ordinary bike riders, so suggesting people who question their benefits are of the same order as antivaxxers is...bizarre.</p> <p>If you're belting along on a drop-handlebar road bike at 30+ mph, or half-falling down the side of a mountain on a dirt trail, sure, wearing gear that will protect you from the <em>serious</em> gashes and abrasions that can result seems like a sound plan. But those injuries aren't going to happen to someone pootling along at sub-15mph on an upright, that's skinned-knees and cuts you can treat with plasters territory, not to mention that while using any kind of safe cycling infrastructure the chances such riders will even have an accident at all are negligible, nevermind a worst-case scenario one. Also, it seems rational for a child or adult learning to ride wear one, since they have a real chance of falling off even at low speeds in a safe environment. But otherwise? Pure Safety Theatre, and as much for the benefit of status-quo loving motorists("Wot can I do guv, he wasn't wearing a helmet! Yes, my two-ton death machine might have pulped half his organs and turned his spine to spaghetti, but if only he'd taken some care and put on an inch of foam with a thin plastic shell, perhaps he'd still be here today, s'not my fault is it!"), as anyone else. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427&page=29#post-352364 Fri, 02 Jul 2021 13:34:07 +0000 chdot 352364@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not about helmets <em>as such</em> -</p> <p>“</p> <p>Danielle Obe, the founding member of the Black Swimming Association, told the Guardian the ruling underlined the inherent systemic and institutional inequalities around the sport. “We believe that it confirms a lack of diversity in (the sport),” she said. “Aquatic swimming must do better.” </p> <p>The original swimming cap, designed by Speedo 50, was created to prevent Caucasian hair from flowing into the face when swimming. Obe said the caps did not work for Afro hair, which “grows up and defies gravity”. </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/02/swimming-caps-for-natural-black-hair-ruled-out-of-olympic-games-alice-dearing" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/02/swimming-caps-for-natural-black-hair-ruled-out-of-olympic-games-alice-dearing</a> </p>