http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Bicycle Culture by Design en Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:23:24 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114946 Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:37:31 +0000 PS 114946@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>When the 'chair' was shown at lecture, Mikael Coville-Andersen was surprised how muted the reaction was.</em></p> <p>It was an Edinburgh crowd - past masters in "muted" ;)</p> <p>What was he expecting? Gasps of horror or chortles of amused recognition? I think it probably got a small nod of recognition from me... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114924 Tue, 18 Jun 2013 22:20:59 +0000 LaidBack 114924@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>When the 'chair' was shown at lecture, Mikael Coville-Andersen was surprised how muted the reaction was.</p> <p>I think as we've been living with that particular piece of furniture for so long we recognise it as quite normal! </p> <p>Maybe someone has link so we can see the 'chair'.</p> <p>Either that or there were too many modern art lovers in the audience. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114917 Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:52:16 +0000 chdot 114917@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://bikeablejo.wordpress.com/2013/06/18/design-cycling-as-you-would-a-chair" rel="nofollow">http://bikeablejo.wordpress.com/2013/06/18/design-cycling-as-you-would-a-chair</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114747 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 18:34:28 +0000 Calum 114747@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It would have been nice to have lived in Seville during that period of transition. I imagine I'd have felt the way Jan Gehl says he feels about Copenhagen - "every morning when you wake up, you have the feeling that the city is a little bit better than it was yesterday". Lovely.</p> <p>I read that Seville is aiming for 15% modal share. We hear about targets all the time, of course, but I'm more inclined to believe Seville's because they have already demonstrated an ability to actually achieve something. It would be amazing if they reached that target - proof that it can be done in other places. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114743 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 18:11:06 +0000 crowriver 114743@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Portland? Even has hills... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114722 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 16:23:25 +0000 sallyhinch 114722@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think they'd be better looking to Seville - or Chicago. The latter has the advantage of having worse weather and more of a car culture than Scotland, yet is forging ahead putting in protected lanes. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114720 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 16:16:16 +0000 Instography 114720@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sure, I get that it's not the same thing. I was just trying to think myself into a politician's shoes and imagining what it might be like. I got to thinking that if I was a politician looking at Copenhagen, without the money, the civic support and probably only a bit of the political support, I maybe wouldn't find it all that inspiring. That was the only point of the Jools Holland comparison - his playing isn't inspiring. It's impressive but it emphasises how far away you are and the futility of aspiring to that level. </p> <p>So, you're a politician and people point you to Copenhagen. Inspired by the challenge of completely redesigning the whole city? Maybe not much. Within the time available, let's say 5-10 years, how close could you get and how much pain would you need to go through? Who would share that kind of vision apart from cycling nerds? What would be the chances of getting kicked out after 1 term for inflicting all that disruption before you had anything to show for it? In a way it makes sense to just want without actually trying.</p> <p>They need a comparator that's closer to their goal. Dublin sounds good. It looks achievable. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114716 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 15:21:14 +0000 Cyclingmollie 114716@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I did plan to go though with the same sense of foreboding I feel when I read hel**t threads. I try to keep an open mind. But the fiftieth birthday party was great. And no, it wasn't mine. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114689 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 12:16:20 +0000 Roibeard 114689@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Inst - The comparison with a skill is perhaps a bit misleading. We don't need to go through every phase of development experienced by the Dutch, and we don't need to learn everything for ourselves.</p> <p>Instead it's more about standing on the shoulders of giants...</p> <p>Companies considering going into space today, don't need to spend all the time NASA spent on their space programmes, they just need to appropriate that knowledge and skill, rather than reinvent the wheel.</p> <p>Of course, we may need to spend 40 years developing the political will...</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114653 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 10:05:35 +0000 SRD 114653@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>the politicians might want to look to their counterparts in those cities who showed political will </p> <p>Unfortunately for us, these mostly seem to involve elected mayors... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114644 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 09:40:12 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 114644@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think it was Seville that was mentioned that went from something like 0.2% modal share to 7% in 6 years. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114643 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 09:31:33 +0000 PS 114643@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Insto Dublin and Barcelona seem to have demonstrated considerable improvement in cycling levels in a short (say, 5 year?) timeframe. So did Paris and London, for that matter. </p> <p>Rather than the city looking to other role model cities, the politicians might want to look to their counterparts in those cities who showed political will and how they faced down the motoring lobby/hostile press/etc. It's at that point that pointing to case study cities would provide them with the ammunition they need to make their case. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114627 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 00:14:53 +0000 Instography 114627@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think I want a Paperbike.</p> <p>I remember reading about how Jools Holland learned to play piano. How old he was. How long he'd been playing for. He's not much older than me. I was about 35 when I read it and I just thought, "Oh well, I should just pack it in. Even if I can put in the hours, I'll be 70 by the time I'm that good".</p> <p>I think Edinburgh needs a more realistic role model. Some place that it can be match within a politician's timeframe. Trying to catch someone who's miles ahead is demoralising. It's got failure written all over it. It's much easier to just want to or to stop trying at all. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114606 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 19:37:06 +0000 sallyhinch 114606@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Now that's a pretty colour for the Paperbike. Really like that one. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114602 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 19:01:12 +0000 LaidBack 114602@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Two pictures of Mikael Colville-Andersen on his courtesy Paper Bicycle.<br /> ©www.edfoc.og.uk / Kim Harding</p> <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/97093596@N08/9054242625/"><img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3790/9054242625_3bb8ab818e.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/97093596@N08/9054242625/">DSC_1954</a> by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/people/97093596@N08/">edincyclefest</a>, on Flickr</p> <p>With John Knox looking down....<br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/97093596@N08/9056435052/"><img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3666/9056435052_644140184d.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/97093596@N08/9056435052/">DSC_1951</a> by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/people/97093596@N08/">edincyclefest</a>, on Flickr </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114598 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 18:31:02 +0000 chdot 114598@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> A desire path (also known as a desire line, social trail, goat track or bootleg trail) can be a path created as a consequence of foot or bicycle traffic. The path usually represents the shortest or most easily navigated route between an origin and destination. The width of the path and its erosion are indicators of the amount of use the path receives. Desire paths emerge as shortcuts where constructed ways take a circuitous route, or have gaps, or are lacking entirely.</p> <p>"</p> <p>"bootleg trail"!!<br /> <a href="http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desire_path" rel="nofollow">http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desire_path</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114597 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 18:30:17 +0000 chdot 114597@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desire_Lines" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desire_Lines</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114596 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 18:27:59 +0000 PS 114596@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Another thing that was I took away from last night was the importance of observation - cities watching what people are doing, understanding why they're doing it, then facilitating it, rather than trying to prevent them doing it. Some good stuff on desire lines, a phrase which WC claims credit for introducing MCA to. :) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114595 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 18:16:26 +0000 chdot 114595@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Jim Orr (@CllrJimOrr)<br /> 14/06/2013 10:20<br /> Dutch"used to invest in cycling to reduce the number of accidents, but now we do it for economic and health reasons" <a href="http://www.goo.gl/xSIVf" rel="nofollow">http://www.goo.gl/xSIVf</a></p> <p>"</p> <p>(Link headline - "Going Dutch on cycling ‘could cut £1.6bn a year from health budget’ ")</p> <p>That's good and bad. </p> <p>Clearly shows that cycling isn't just 'transport'. </p> <p>Presumably means JO agrees. </p> <p>Means 'shared responsibility' aka 'not (just) my responsibility'. </p> <p>BIG opportunity for Government(s) to make different departments work together <em>and</em> take a longer view. </p> <p>Will NHS chip in the extra money for Leith Walk??</p> <p>Can John Swinney be persuaded about the economic case for ALL this!? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114594 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 18:09:01 +0000 PS 114594@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Morningsider Yep, although comparing the two diagrams I can see why Scandanavian design has such a good rep. ;)</p> <p>Politicians need to grasp the thistle. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114593 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 18:03:52 +0000 Morningsider 114593@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>PS - in effect, the same as diagram 2.2 in Transport Scotland's "Cycling by Design" - the only difference in Copenhagen is the powers that be actually make it happen:</p> <p><a href="http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/strategy-and-research/publications-and-consultations/j185500-02.htm#linkspecificationguide" rel="nofollow">http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/strategy-and-research/publications-and-consultations/j185500-02.htm#linkspecificationguide</a></p> <p>It's not that Scotland lacks the knowledge, plans or money. The only thing really lacking is the political will to invest in cycling infrastructure. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114592 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 17:59:51 +0000 PS 114592@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I thought it was a good talk. Not as in your face as it could have been, and thought provoking.</p> <p>For instance, interesting that Mikael suggested cycle-hire schemes as one of the key ways to get people cycling as they allow folk who wouldn't normally cycle (eg, train passengers) to use bikes for the last mile of their journey. </p> <p>Imagine what things could be like if this proposed Waverley bike hub offered hire bikes on which commuters could then fan out of the station down the segregated infrastructure on Leith Walk down to Leith... Or if you had cycle hire docking stations at either end of George Street, in the West End, Lothian Road. Who would spend 15 minutes walking between these points if they could just hop on a hire bike and be at their destination in 5 mins? Instant critical mass and human scale city.</p> <p>And the hill argument can be turned on its head: Hire a bike from a docking station at the Castle and cruise all the way to Princes St, George St, Leith, Stockbridge. The bike hire guys would just pop the bikes that gravitated to the bottom of the hills onto trailers and take them back up the hill. It works in Paris wrt Montmatre... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451&page=2#post-114591 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 17:48:49 +0000 PS 114591@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This is the diagram SRD refers to above:<br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/16nine/8662320975/" rel="nofollow">http://www.flickr.com/photos/16nine/8662320975/</a><br /> <img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8247/8662320975_a65709f210_c.jpg"> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451#post-114589 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 17:33:13 +0000 SRD 114589@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Oh, the other thing i was really glad to hear last night was the mention that Dublin doesn't allow HGVs in the city centre. had asked for this to be on transport forum agenda. May just 'remind' Lesley and Jim to ask them about this too. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451#post-114581 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 17:09:33 +0000 chdot 114581@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> Monica Magnussen (@twitmomag)<br /> 16/06/2013 15:20<br /> Visited @edfoc @copenhagenize photo exhibit @thehubroyalmile Very inspiring! LOVE the bike cargos, and that 80% still cycle through winter!</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451#post-114580 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 17:07:48 +0000 Kim 114580@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@SRD thanks for getting the word round Edinburgh Uni, I did try to get the word round the other Unis and even offered discounted tickets, but there just wasn't any interest. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451#post-114579 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:30:21 +0000 SRD 114579@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well sort of, but not really. we were just chatting after when we realized we'd been at a workshop together some months back. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451#post-114576 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:13:31 +0000 chdot 114576@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Just the sort of people we need to get on board our campaigns"</p> <p>Presume you know who they are... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451#post-114575 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 15:45:00 +0000 SRD 114575@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On another note entirely, I was quite pleased that at least three people came simply because they saw an email that I asked our school and our transport office to circulate. </p> <p>Too bad we didn't manage to do that at all the local unis (maybe we did and I just don't know it?). </p> <p>One of them said that she didn't cycle in Edinburgh because she is too scared. Just the sort of people we need to get on board our campaigns. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10451#post-114574 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 15:40:49 +0000 SRD 114574@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"kinda shows you don't like the guy" </p> <p>have no idea at all if i like the guy or not. seemed nice enough in person. </p> <p>I don't much like the persona/brand he is selling, especially when his whole schtick is 'we don't have a bike culture' when that is exactly what he is selling...</p> <p>On a more academic note, I thought he flunked badly in trying to answer my colleague's question about developing countries - although he did realize how condescending he sounded and tried to fix it at the end. I also found his rather flippant references to 'the anthropology' of it - both in talk and my discussion with him after - a bit glib and unsatisfactory - pop anthropology rather than the real thing. </p> <p>But, if Edinburgh were to buy into his package 100% I would be delighted and absolutely convinced that the city would be a million times better to live in. </p>