http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "drivers of electric cars should be charged 10p per mile to pay for the power" en Sun, 31 May 2026 08:07:00 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9737 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 14:37:35 +0000 Kim 9737@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Electric or otherwise there will still be large numbers of metal and plastic boxes clogging the streets, they are far from a panacea! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9733 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 14:23:39 +0000 ARobComp 9733@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@anth at work - fair point. although I was more meaning the "n1" routes. Not the cobbles!!! </p> <p>@cb you forgot: fly, wash itself, repair itself, be a transformer in order to take me on whacky adventures ;) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9732 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:58:06 +0000 cb 9732@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I won't buy an electric car until they can accelerate as fast my petrol one, go as fast, recharge in less than five minutes and have range of over 500 miles.</p> <p>Until then I refuse to compromise. Not even one bit.</p> <p>Oh, and they have to cost the same too.</p> <p>And look good. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9726 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:32:55 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 9726@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Necessity is the mother of invention etc etc etc. Current developments away from the internal combustion are good, but it's only once oil gets truly too expensive/scarce that we'll see a big jump in the technology. For the moment the mindset will remain the same as a view I saw expressed on the tv this morning on a report about that solar plane flying through the night - it can only carry one person which shows how far the technology still has to go.</p> <p>It's used as an excuse not to really bother taking it seriously at the moment. Forgetting, of course, that Orville was the first man in the air because the flyer wasn't capable of carrying both of the Brothers Wright.</p> <p>"<em>I actually sometimes dream of the roads in France. So smooth. Beautiful</em>"</p> <p>You weren't watching the Tour two days ago then... ;) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9719 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:43:57 +0000 ARobComp 9719@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>better road surfaces are unlikely in the current climate though. . . I actually sometimes dream of the roads in France. So smooth. Beautiful. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9718 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:23:57 +0000 cb 9718@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Electric cars will still make some noise and above 30mph most of the noise comes from the tyres.<br /> Better road surfaces and tyres can help reduce this.</p> <p><a href="http://www.noiseresourceservice.org.uk/index_files/page0006.htm">http://www.noiseresourceservice.org.uk/index_files/page0006.htm</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9717 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:22:38 +0000 steveo 9717@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I suspect that cost will be a greater constraint in the future. </p> <p>What ever technology we move to will be move expensive than the IC, both fuel cells and pev use many "exotic" materials thus driving up the cost of the machine. The actual power plant of the fuel cell will need refurbished every couple of years more so than IC and batteries would currently need replaced every two again more expense compared to the IC.</p> <p>Hydrogen will probably be as expensive as petrol and oil based fuels will start to become cost prohibitive soon enough. </p> <p>tldr; We'll soon see less cars used less often driven by cost not the need to be healthy. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9716 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:08:43 +0000 chdot 9716@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"do WE really want the roads flooded with 'green' (motorised) vehicles that are silent?! "</p> <p>Well that livened up the debate - two brand new posters!!</p> <p>Obviously quieter is better, silent is complicated. </p> <p>BUT I'm more concerned about replacing current situation with just many (or more) four wheeled boxes - even if they are smaller and 'nicer'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9715 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:05:30 +0000 spytfyre 9715@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Stepdoh - the annoying frog/thing was originally from a website pretending to be an F1 car accelerating and gear shifting (www.madnesstester.com or something similar, gone now as it obviously sold for ludicrous sums of money) - we could use that. That way people wouldn't want to drive anymore as their vehicle made stupid noises </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9714 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:03:02 +0000 Stepdoh 9714@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Maybe they will be forced to play the sounds of an F1 race car from speakers above the headlights...</p> <p>Or <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcawnRIyeok">The Chain</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9713 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:01:16 +0000 spytfyre 9713@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot - perpetual motion - let's all just <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/10550430.stm">fly</a> instead</p> <p><em>do WE really want the roads flooded with 'green' (motorised) vehicles that are silent?! </em><br /> Maybe they will be forced to play the sounds of an F1 race car from speakers above the headlights...</p> <p>@ARobComp - <em>Why not more of this and "go-cycle" style machines.</em><br /> possibly due to our crappy weather<br /> PS Welcome to the show ;)</p> <p>@digiphotoneil - <em>A sensible thing to do would be to tell the vehicle when you next need it and it would charge when electricity was cheap or in time for you to use it again.</em><br /> Nice one. Like with "white meter heating" - our water tank heats up during the night when electricity is cheapest </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9712 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:00:59 +0000 digiphotoneil 9712@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>chdot,</p> <p>I think you can achieve a reduction in pollution by moving from lots of wee engines (IC) to fewer large installations. The large installations can achieve higher efficiencies and use more varied fuel sources. This assumes a good grid infrastructure, a reasonable assumption if you live in a city. </p> <p>Adding 16-18% 'deferrable demand' would actually be beneficial to the grid as it can approximate energy storage. The idea of doing this with fridges has been mooted and there is research ongoing into using electric vehicles in this manner. A sensible thing to do would be to tell the vehicle when you next need it and it would charge when electricity was cheap or in time for you to use it again.</p> <p>Ensuring a sensible billing strategy would be an interesting topic for research/debate!</p> <p>Personally I'd be a fan of quieter vehicles passing my window early in the morning! </p> <p>Mahalo! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9711 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:47:36 +0000 steveo 9711@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/pSdnycHfLnQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/v/pSdnycHfLnQ</a></p> <p>The above youtube video has an interesting take on the peaking/charging issue.</p> <p>Lithium is likely to become a very expensive commodity its quite rare in commercial quantities.</p> <p>Personally i'd rather a fleet of virtually silent "emission free" vehicles than a fleet of dirty diesel's clogging the streets. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9710 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:45:27 +0000 ARobComp 9710@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>long time reader - first time poster· Love the show... </p> <p>I don't think the fact that we'll have to check over our shoulder more is any reason to not promote green energy. I really hope that once people invest in these green cars they suddenly realise that it would so much easier just to cycle anyway and save the car for specific journeys where you need to carry lots. </p> <p>In every recession there is a push for new technology. As chdot said - there is innovation in technology and the manufacturing and energy industry in this country has to rise to the challenge and create itself an industry.</p> <p>EDIT * Also I have an electric skateboard which would be perfect for shooting to work accross town - its responsive - fast and has really excellent brakes (better than most bikes apart from discs) - yet that is not "road legal". Why not more of this and "go-cycle" style machines. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9709 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:34:38 +0000 chdot 9709@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"As you drove along it would generate some power from the passing wind..."</p> <p>Ah yes <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion">perpetual motion</a>.</p> <p>Is the future of transport electric? </p> <p>Is the (commercial) interest because there is a realisation that cars won't be able to run on (cheap) oil for much longer? Or a desire to 'reduce pollution' - in the short term by moving it to Cockenzie, Torness etc?</p> <p>I'm sure battery technology will get better/cheaper - though large scale use will lead to other resource issues. Perhaps a combination of (much) better insulation (buildings) and a coherent wind/wave/other strategy will delivery enough electricity to deal with present 'needs' and leave a surplus for individualised transport.</p> <p>BUT do WE really want the roads flooded with 'green' (motorised) vehicles that are silent?! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9708 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:34:35 +0000 Stepdoh 9708@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I guess the cars will have regenerative braking and all sorts of other smart tricks to help squeeze every bit out of the battery.</p> <p>I suspect the easiest way to control the charging would be to step the charging voltage down to a non-standard amount, like 150V or something. Although I suspect there would then be a market for voltage adaptors! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9707 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:31:34 +0000 cb 9707@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>An additional 18% electricity generation in the UK required to convert all road traffic to electric.</p> <p>I'm sure I read that statistic recently but can't remember where and I can't find it now.</p> <p>But I did find <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/extras/big-question/the-big-question-are-electric-cars-the-answer-to-britains-environmental-problems-1666749.html">this</a> which suggests 16% under the section "Well, what will that involve?"</p> <p>16%/18% doesn't sound <em>that</em> much although the above link does point out that 16% only stands if recharging of all vehicles is equally spread out across the day. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9705 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:12:36 +0000 spytfyre 9705@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I find it hard to believe that recharge points would not have a license plate camera to measure how long you sat charging (and at what time of day, electricity being cheaper at night) there is no way people will get electric car top ups for free and more than likely would be charging at home and at work anyway rarely using on street stands unless they live in a tenement, cue extension cables hanging out of windows electrocuting passers by in the rain...<br /> This seems like a spectacular own goal on behalf of the Saturn Energy company (maybe just desperate for a little free press advertising as I for one have never heard of them before). Maybe we need separate power infrastructure if large numbers of electric cars are sucking down juice off the same grid, what would we call this flavour of electricity? Oilectricity is my favoured option. What if it was all to come from wind farms? Could you put a mini turbine on the roof of your car? As you drove along it would generate some power from the passing wind... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9703 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 09:53:17 +0000 Kim 9703@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The elephant in the room with electric cars which no one seams to want to talk about is where all the extra electricity is going to come from. Make electricity cheaper for drivers is going to make it more expensive for the rest of us. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9693 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 08:56:41 +0000 Dave 9693@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There are serious questions about electricity infrastructure when it comes to electric cars. Part of the problem is there's no way to force people to charge up at a petrol station (nor is it really practical), so you can't have a 'special rate' of electricity for that alone.</p> <p>They should move away from a flat rate electricity payment system towards one based on increasing tariffs (a bit like taxation). </p> <p>Everybody should be able to use a basic amount of power for heat and light. Above this, the rate per unit should rack up increasingly to discourage (and/or make shedloads of money from) "excess" use. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9681 Wed, 07 Jul 2010 21:25:01 +0000 steveo 9681@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Errm or they can pay for the power they're using! If that's too cheap then raise the cost of electricity, this was kind of the point of deregulating the electricty board, open it up to competition and let the market decide, not that i'm saying its working though.</p> <p>The argument seems to be it cost 12p in a petrol car and only 2p in an electric car there for you should pay more what stupidity. The benefits of the electric car over the IC aren't just the savings in fuel, the cost of me not having to breath in petrol fumes, or the irreversible damage done to the cities land marks </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1050#post-9678 Wed, 07 Jul 2010 20:15:41 +0000 chdot 9678@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.metro.co.uk/news/834258-energy-company-suggests-road-tax-on-electric-cars-to-save-energy" rel="nofollow">http://www.metro.co.uk/news/834258-energy-company-suggests-road-tax-on-electric-cars-to-save-energy</a> </p>