http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Meadows 'upgrade' en Mon, 06 Jul 2026 14:46:14 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=4#post-132556 Thu, 14 Nov 2013 14:22:19 +0000 Baldcyclist 132556@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em> Much better than the previous (wrong) ones.</em></p> <p>Agreed, but if you get them at the wrong ange they can still 'slide' your back wheel. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=4#post-132555 Thu, 14 Nov 2013 14:16:22 +0000 SRD 132555@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I've now ridden the new strips a few times in good/bad weather and day/night and haven't felt slippy or unsteady. Much better than the previous (wrong) ones. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=4#post-131221 Sun, 03 Nov 2013 16:56:37 +0000 crowriver 131221@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ach well, at least they are putting the 'correct' slabs down. Still work in progress, as I noted this afternoon... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=4#post-130352 Mon, 28 Oct 2013 14:43:54 +0000 kaputnik 130352@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm very confused also. The general rule should be not to use/implement something that you don't understand the correct application of. I've a feeling that the planners have imagined that they should put these in as way of "slow down" rumble strips for bicycles around the junctions, which is absolutely not what they are meant to do. In fact they are not meant to impede the passage of bicycles at all!</p> <p>Leamington Walk has the speedbumps which is sensible as a lot of speed is easily picked up on the way down the hill. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=4#post-130351 Mon, 28 Oct 2013 14:38:47 +0000 chdot 130351@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not sure if the last two posts complement or contradict!</p> <p>I understand the continuous strip (not paint) 'rule', but not the reasoning that the same sort of tiles on both sides are permissible (essential?) - which seems to be the official line. </p> <p>No wonder CEC/contractors are confused!! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=4#post-130349 Mon, 28 Oct 2013 14:26:09 +0000 SRD 130349@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Guidance is that there should be a raised median strip where tactiles are used. [edit -- along full length of segregated path) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=4#post-130348 Mon, 28 Oct 2013 14:26:07 +0000 kaputnik 130348@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Are you saying this is OK if there is a centre strip?<br /> </em></p> <p>If there is a raised central strip, it is meant to be for the whole segregated path, not for segregation by paint and not just between the flags. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=4#post-130347 Mon, 28 Oct 2013 14:17:45 +0000 chdot 130347@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Didn't follow all that. </p> <p>Are you saying this is OK if there is a centre strip?</p> <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/10535363064/"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7338/10535363064_ae46b5eba8.jpg"></a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=4#post-130337 Mon, 28 Oct 2013 13:41:03 +0000 Arellcat 130337@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>They've lifted all the flags (even on the pedestrian side, which was correct) and replaced them all with the sort meant for cycling side.</em></p> <p>I'll need to have another look at the works, then.</p> <p>Figure 28 on page 54 in the <a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/3622/tactile-pavement.pdf">Government guidance</a> is the 'cycling' tactile surface, and Figure 19 on page 38 is the 'corduroy' hazard tactile surface. Figures, 30, 31 and 32 all show that the cycling tactile surface is used on both the pedestrian and cyclist sides, if it's a shared segregated path that intersects with a dedicated footpath or a cycle path.</p> <p>The corduroy tactile flags are not for use adjacent to a delineator strip. <em>"The purpose of the corduroy surface is to warn visually impaired people of the presence of specific hazards: steps, level crossings or the approach to on-street light rapid transit (LRT)<br /> platforms. It is also used where a footway joins a shared route (see Chapter 5). It conveys the message 'hazard, proceed with caution'."</em> Per Figure 30 you would use them at the point where a footpath joins an unsegregated junction on the cyclists' side.</p> <p>The real issue is that CEC hasn't installed the delineator strips along the length of the paths, and therefore blind users will not be able to tell which side of a path is correct until they encounter one of the tactile installations.</p> <p>The point where the western end of NMW meets the pedestrian crossing at the end of Lonsdale Terrace is particularly complex because the cycle entry from Melville Drive is not well defined. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=4#post-130312 Mon, 28 Oct 2013 10:57:51 +0000 kaputnik 130312@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>My money says they relay the cycling flags on the pedestrian side now, meaning it's still wrong, but just a back to front sort of wrong! </em></p> <p>My prediction is correct. They've lifted all the flags (even on the pedestrian side, which was correct) and replaced them all with the sort meant for cycling side (SRD's top photo). This means that the pedestrian side is now incorrect.</p> <p>If Edinburgh Council can't be bothered to familiarise themselves with the regulations for using these sorts of slabs, they shouldn't be letting their design/planning department put them onto plans and then having the contractors waste time and money getting it wrong and then wrong again. This will be (at least) third time lucky to get this simple thing right. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=4#post-130245 Sun, 27 Oct 2013 12:00:17 +0000 SRD 130245@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>New <img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7344/10510171854_10cb181da0.jpg"> </p> <p>Old<br /> <img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3768/10510348953_97bdfde997.jpg"> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=4#post-129938 Thu, 24 Oct 2013 18:10:09 +0000 kaputnik 129938@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Bafflingly, they've lifted the pedestrian side too, which was already done correctly.</p> <p>My money says they relay the cycling flags on the pedestrian side now, meaning it's still wrong, but just a back to front sort of wrong! </p> <p>T.I.E. after all. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=4#post-129905 Thu, 24 Oct 2013 13:33:05 +0000 DaveC 129905@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I rode past the Bombay Bicycle Club resturant, this morning on my way to PY Oct (1/2). I joined the path on the corner, rather than just past the barrier, and then over the ped side of the path, and saw two single lines of slabs with a yellowish concerite in between. Temporary? Anyway I also sotted the opened path cordoned off as show in WC's pic above.</p> <p>I didn't slip. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=4#post-129883 Thu, 24 Oct 2013 12:10:58 +0000 Dave 129883@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>When you come onto the Meadows at the west end the slab is very badly positioned - right on the corner. My route to PY also.</p> <p>I either ride over the grass or use the pedestrian side along NMW now. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=4#post-129861 Thu, 24 Oct 2013 10:54:20 +0000 fimm 129861@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Oh yes, I came along north meadow walk this morning. Gave myself a bit of a fright on the first lot of tiles you get to after the crossing, it was dark and there are leaves and you cross them at a bit of an angle. Took the second set as designed and that was ok but as it was early and there were not many people around I then nipped onto the pedestrian side to run over them the prefered way. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=4#post-129857 Thu, 24 Oct 2013 10:33:07 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 129857@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ah yes, reminds me I grabbed a photo this morning</p> <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/blackpuddinonnabike/10455296563/"><img src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5495/10455296563_1d5e71bb3a.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/blackpuddinonnabike/10455296563/">Untitled</a> by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/people/blackpuddinonnabike/">blackpuddinonnabike</a>, on Flickr </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=4#post-129855 Thu, 24 Oct 2013 10:19:00 +0000 jdanielp 129855@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Looks like they are in the process of swapping the curved top paving slabs on NMW for what appear to be the correct flat top slabs based on the conversation so far, assuming of course that they install them in the right direction... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=3#post-129504 Tue, 22 Oct 2013 12:39:34 +0000 jdanielp 129504@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I can't say that I've had any problems yet on my hybrid MTB; if anything the smooth surface of the majority of NMW feels less grippy than the 'yellow' shared sections and even the 'rumblestrips', especially now that the leaves are coming down properly. I did almost fall foul of tramlining as a result of the raised dividing line between the cycle side and pedestrian side on the old path, but have yet to feel anything like that from the new surfacing. I will be extra cautious now that I hear that others are having issues with the surfacing though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=3#post-129449 Tue, 22 Oct 2013 09:11:51 +0000 chdot 129449@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Fraser Kirkpatrick (@fkp123)<br /> 22/10/2013 08:39<br /> @SpokesLothian @CyclingEdin anyone know what these are? Love new meadows path, but these are lethal in wet leaves.. <a href="http://pic.twitter.com/8zM8OcuuxB" rel="nofollow">http://pic.twitter.com/8zM8OcuuxB</a></p> <p><a href="https://twitter.com/fkp123/status/392555729560686592" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/fkp123/status/392555729560686592</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=3#post-124740 Fri, 13 Sep 2013 01:03:05 +0000 Snowy 124740@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Nearly came off the road bike tonight coming east along the Broomhouse Path. It's flat ridges until a set on Broomhouse Drive suddenly become rounded ridges. In the drizzle this evening, the front wheel suddenly tramlined a good 15 degrees on the rounded ridges and very nearly tipped me off. Very dangerous. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=3#post-124612 Thu, 12 Sep 2013 09:21:00 +0000 Colonies_Chris 124612@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The TRRL document is very interesting. It really does recommend placing the lengthwise grooves (ironically, they refer to them as tramlines) on the cycle side. I can't think why - perhaps no one at TRRL rides a bike? As for the style of ridges, it probably depends on the bike. On a hybrid, I find the rounded ridges, as on NMW, are not really a problem, whereas the flat wider-spaced ridges on the Broomhouse path channel the wheel alarmingly. For a road bike, the opposite might well be true. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=3#post-124498 Wed, 11 Sep 2013 10:25:48 +0000 kaputnik 124498@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@colonieschris on the Broomhouse path there's a real mix. They've used the "cyclist" type flags (wide, shallow, flat-profile ridges) on the pedestrian side and also used the "pedestrian"-type flags (narrow, raised, round-profile ridges) on the cycling side.</p> <p>They've managed to get it right at about 2 locations and wrong in all the others.</p> <p>On NMW at the Boroughloch end they never installed a lot of the flags on the cycling side as it finally sunk in to the council that they were using the wrong ones after much feedback about the Lauriston-end of the path. You can still see the white marks on the tarmac where the flags should have been installed, but until they get the correct ones they will be absent. John Lauder from Sustrans tweeted recently that it should be done by end-October I think.</p> <p>Council won't touch Broomhouse path until the Trams (also Council!) have finished and they adopt it. Until then we have to put up with wrong and potentially dangerous surface. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=3#post-124483 Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:17:58 +0000 Arellcat 124483@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>There is a Traffic Advisory Leaflet TAL 4/90 available to download.</em></p> <p>That looks <strike>really good</strike> quite good. It doesn't suggest the use of hazard flags for the pedestrian side though, and both sides look like they use the cyclist-friendlier flags.</p> <p><a href="http://www.ukroads.org/webfiles/TAL%204-90%20Tactile%20Markings%20for%20Segregated%20Shared%20Use.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ukroads.org/webfiles/TAL%204-90%20Tactile%20Markings%20for%20Segregated%20Shared%20Use.pdf</a></p> <p>I think I'll investigate NMW on my way home today, just for the heckuvit. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=3#post-124482 Wed, 11 Sep 2013 07:29:59 +0000 SRD 124482@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@allebong from melville drive to chalmers street, the tactile paving is all in place. there is none from chalmers st to MMW, where you can see they started to put it in, and then stopped. </p> <p>@colonieschris @gembo the direction is not in doubt, but many of these cases have used the wrong paving (albeit correctly aligned). (i'm no expert, but I' m fairly sure that is the collective wisdom as it now stands). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=3#post-124480 Wed, 11 Sep 2013 07:21:46 +0000 gembo 124480@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Colonies chris, this has been the subject of much discussion on here. I do what you did and take the speed bump on the ped side. When various forumers have queried whether they re laid the correct way, the contractors have said either,m No, they are he wrong way or err, I dunno</p> <p>They do make you slow down</p> <p>They will cause some people to fall off, some of whom may try to make a claim for injury? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=3#post-124474 Tue, 10 Sep 2013 23:14:31 +0000 Colonies_Chris 124474@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A couple of days ago I rode the path from Carrick Knowe out to Edinburgh Park. Every one of the tactile paving segments there has the longitudinal grooves on the cycle side. They felt risky even on a hybrid on a dry day - the grooves are wider and shallower than the ones on the Meadows path. After the first few I started crossing over to the ped side. Are these really the right way round? And why are they different from the NMW ones? And what about the final section into Edinburgh Park on a brick-tiled pavement? These have been laid lengthwise too, which makes for an anxious ride. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=3#post-124472 Tue, 10 Sep 2013 22:42:38 +0000 Tulyar 124472@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Some suppliers swear black is white that the units they supply are the correct sort, but they certainly are not when you check the catalogue, and installed units, but of course the compliance check by someone ordering the units comes back OK and they order them. Glasgow has used some moulded ones which have a greasy/waxy feel to the touch and glue to the road surface, from which several have peeled away...</p> <p>I believe that the wrong units were widely used in Devon, and following from a fall on the wrong units they ended up with a major replacement programme to rectify the problem</p> <p>There is a Traffic Advisory Leaflet TAL 4/90 available to download.</p> <p>Units of various types were tested by TRL for DETR around 25 years ago (I recall discussing the testing with Fred Offen then section head of CLT3). Try as I have to locate the papers relating to this both TRL and DfT have not delivered - the work at TRL was done under Gordon Harland. Any budding detectives care to try? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=3#post-124462 Tue, 10 Sep 2013 18:07:41 +0000 allebong 124462@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I was on NMW last night from having come down MMW. Unless I'm suffering from delusion and/or hallucinations it seems most of the tiles have been removed. There were a few single rows here and there near junctions with other paths and entrances, but aside from that it was back to being uniform buttery smooth.</p> <p>Can someone confirm that I did not just imagine that? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=3#post-119495 Fri, 26 Jul 2013 09:28:13 +0000 fimm 119495@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I've ridden it a couple of times recently and have noticed that there are places where they've marked out the tarmac to put in the tiles but have then stopped and not put the tiles in on the cycle half of the path...</p> <p>On Wednesday evening I had to take evasive action onto the pedestrian half of the path as there was a horde of runners (well 30 or so) coming towards me on the cycle half. Some kind of organised event, they had numbers on. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10606&page=3#post-118997 Mon, 22 Jul 2013 12:24:31 +0000 NiallA 118997@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I rode along here on the way into work this morning and had the same experience - a bit of slippage due to the damp road surface. Have ridden it a few times now in the dry and had no problems, but one hint of rain...</p> <p>Otherwise, it's a lovely path to cycle along - a great improvement on the rather narrow, rough version there before. </p>