http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Why does cycling have podium girls? en Sun, 31 May 2026 20:12:28 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=4#post-224537 Sat, 02 Jul 2016 18:40:22 +0000 chdot 224537@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>They are getting younger.</p> <p><img src="https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7389/27424884823_c730b37c61.jpg"> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=4#post-117233 Sun, 07 Jul 2013 07:38:10 +0000 chdot 117233@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"re thread closing: the discussion's been quite civil really."</p> <p>Well mostly, perhaps. </p> <p>"I am just so grateful that..."</p> <p>That sounds like a good place to finish. </p> <p>I don't often close threads, but this has developed - like some previous helmet ones did - to a point where two 'sides' emerge and useful/enlightening discussion gets overwhelmed by a degree of unCCElike rancour. </p> <p>That may sound like a new rule ' CCE should remain friendly - <em>and bland'</em>', but once things get like tennis (but without much actual point scoring) it becomes time to put the roof on - and turn the lights off. </p> <p>Looks like another day for lots of sun cream, water and exploring Edinburgh and the surrounding area. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=4#post-117232 Sun, 07 Jul 2013 07:09:49 +0000 Charterhall 117232@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I am just so grateful that the majority opinions voiced on this thread aren't reflected in society as a whole and that nicely dressed attractive young ladies remain a central part of most podium presentations. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=4#post-117230 Sun, 07 Jul 2013 06:41:29 +0000 SRD 117230@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>re thread closing: the discussion's been quite civil really. </p> <p>but disappointing that otherwise intelligent, kind, rational people feel they have to defend gendered institutions and judging people on appearance rather than other characteristics. </p> <p>this is of course simply reflects our society - challenging these assumptions threatens peoples' own self-identity and self-worth, as well as all the institutions they've been brought up with. which can be very threatening and difficult - for both men and women. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=4#post-117229 Sun, 07 Jul 2013 06:33:45 +0000 SRD 117229@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I'm not trying to impose my morality on the <strike>situation</strike> product."</p> <p>The problem is that you think I'm imposing my morality, but that you're not. </p> <p>Why don't you go lobby for 'podium girls' in tennis? and football too if you think they're such a great thing that adds so much value to your sport watching? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=4#post-117227 Sun, 07 Jul 2013 01:21:23 +0000 Two Tired 117227@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes you are so right crowriver on both accounts. The response was from some entirely not what I would hope for. and secondly, with as much sarcasm as I can lay on: yes, of course this is entirely a case of my throwing the dolly out the pram at not getting my way. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=4#post-117226 Sun, 07 Jul 2013 01:04:18 +0000 crowriver 117226@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Presumably you started the thread to provoke a response. Well, you got a response! The response was not what you hoped for, so now it's shut down the thread time it seems. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=4#post-117224 Sun, 07 Jul 2013 00:51:19 +0000 Two Tired 117224@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I don't know whether to laugh or cry at your posts Steveo. If this is your view why the hell are you on this forum? Have you never posted here about being unsatisfied with any aspect of cycling?For that matter if you are at all unsatisfied with the safety provision or cycling infrastructure for cyclists why are you cycling? Surely you should be boycotting it all together? </p> <p>As for "imposing your morality" and various other comments this thread has veered to far now into the realm of blatant sexism and I am properly disgusted. Think it is near time it was locked down if not deleted completely. Though this is a case where boycotting makes sense and that is exactly what I shall do if the admins don't see a problem with this thread. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=4#post-117223 Sun, 07 Jul 2013 00:36:33 +0000 steveo 117223@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Not sure what you want from me steveo. </em></p> <p>I want nothing from you, I'm not trying to impose my morality on the <strike>situation</strike> product. </p> <p><em>But if I object to what podium girls represent in an on-line forum, I must also boycott everything to do with cycle racing or else I'm the hypocrit? </em></p> <p>If you actually want to see it change then objecting on an online forum is just talking at the wind, so why bother? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=4#post-117222 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 23:55:09 +0000 Uberuce 117222@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>(I'll put this in a separate post since there's edit confusion)</p> <p>SRD: Admire? Hell yes. Within the context of power-generating sports(and I don't know if this is what RTC meant when he mentioned privilege, given how broad an issue it is) a person born with two less testoterone-blarting organs than me is plainly winning hard if they win over me. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=4#post-117220 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 23:45:26 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 117220@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>The problem with our debates is, i think, that many of our regular posters think of themselves as relatively 'liberal' or 'progressive' but then find themselves justifying gendered roles and being intelligent blokes, they realize the hypocrisy of their positions, and that makes them uncomfortable, so they argue more stridently or exit entirely</em>"</p> <p>Oh good god. Consider me exited. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=4#post-117219 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 23:40:16 +0000 Uberuce 117219@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I would still like a number.</p> <p>SRD: Deep down and shallow down I know there's many men who can outride me, and that bothers me by X, and X is often a lot since I'm competitive. It bothers me by Y that there's women that can outride me. </p> <p>X&lt;Y. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=4#post-117218 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 23:40:03 +0000 ruggtomcat 117218@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://io9.com/women-do-better-on-math-tests-when-they-fake-their-name-670082790" rel="nofollow">http://io9.com/women-do-better-on-math-tests-when-they-fake-their-name-670082790</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=4#post-117217 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 23:25:56 +0000 SRD 117217@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's the slapping that counts I think.</p> <p>Because, deep down, you know full well that there are many women out there who can outride you. They just happen not to live in Edinburgh/be on strava. Yes?</p> <p>And you admire them don't you? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=4#post-117216 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 23:24:43 +0000 ruggtomcat 117216@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>see thats good, Uberuce experiences privilege and then he <em>notices</em>. thats the hard bit. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=4#post-117215 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 23:13:23 +0000 Uberuce 117215@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On a scale of one to ten, how much of a sexist pig am I being when feel relieved that I've not been beaten by the Queen of Mountain on any given Strava segment?</p> <p>Because I do. Moments later I morally slap myself upside the head, but it's an uncertain slap, what with testosterone being an empirical thingmy. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=3#post-117213 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 22:50:35 +0000 SRD 117213@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not sure what you want from me steveo. I'm a member of a number of campaigns, boycott a number of companies/places of origin of goods, sign more petitions than I ought, and spend a good deal of my 'free' time campaigning for safer cycling. </p> <p>But if I object to what podium girls represent in an on-line forum, I must also boycott everything to do with cycle racing or else I'm the hypocrit? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=3#post-117212 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 22:26:48 +0000 steveo 117212@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em> So presumably better to object than boycott?</em></p> <p>And what form that objection? I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest you and I aren't the first to think of a writing a letter. So lets assume this conversation was had a couple of years ago by two very similar people and a sternly worded letter was received by the tour organisers. Lets also assume nothing changed, since nothing has changed, now what? Is you conscience assuaged by the letter have you done all you can? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=3#post-117209 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 21:45:49 +0000 Charterhall 117209@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So what's the verdict on this year's outfits? As ever nice classy stuff for yellow, and I'm pleased to see the polka dot outfits are big improvement on previous years. But none of them as classy as the Giro dresses. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=3#post-117202 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 20:25:33 +0000 SRD 117202@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Actually, I think that as a consumer i have much more right to object to stuff. Obviously boycotts have their place as well, but in this case, I don't object to the TdF, I object to one aspect of how they present prizes. So presumably better to object than boycott?</p> <p>Voice rather than exit or loyalty, in the venerable words of the late and much missed Alfred Hirschmann. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=3#post-117201 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 20:21:04 +0000 steveo 117201@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The point I was trying to make is that the hosts are a marketing tool, when you buy into the product (sport) you support the marketing perception that pretty girls sell cycling gear. It's a commercial transaction just like any other. </p> <p> Your position is a bit like objecting to Foxconn's workers rights but still buying an iPhone becuase they make the only phone you like. You can try and change the system from the inside but big companies only really notice the bottom line and as I said earlier disgruntled eye balls are worth just as much. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=3#post-117200 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 20:09:57 +0000 ruggtomcat 117200@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>oh and thanks SRD, i totally agree about the liberal men being unwilling to face their own privilege, this is <strong>only</strong> the third peer group I've had this discussion with... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=3#post-117199 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 20:03:08 +0000 ruggtomcat 117199@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Steveo, I watch the news and go to concerts, when there is only one culture you have to participate in it, but you also have to try and change it.</p> <p>there is no 'feminists world cup' but I would defo watch it if I had the choice. Just because I like cycle racing means I have to agree to institutionalised sexism? Dont be silly, I can like cycling without agreeing with the way its presented. Its not viable to make a whole new cycling federation but its totally viable to change the one we have, especially in these 'enlightened' times.</p> <p>Its a non argument really, its like saying 'dont like the goverment? then move!' we all live here, it should be accessible for all. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=3#post-117192 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 18:55:59 +0000 rust 117192@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>How many of us actually watch all the way to the podium?</p> <p>And aren't the podium girls just a way of trying to make people watch the medal ceremony and get more coverage for it?</p> <p>In which case, optimistically they're just an example of what some marketing person things the public wants to see? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=3#post-117191 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 18:36:54 +0000 steveo 117191@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Rugg, SRD, others, do you watch the sport? Don't you consider the hypocrisy in consuming the product despite your moral objections to it? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=3#post-117157 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 11:06:42 +0000 SRD 117157@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>We have had feminism debates here before, but never so well articulated. thank you ruggtomcat! </p> <p>The problem with our debates is, i think, that many of our regular posters think of themselves as relatively 'liberal' or 'progressive' but then find themselves justifying gendered roles and being intelligent blokes, they realize the hypocrisy of their positions, and that makes them uncomfortable, so they argue more stridently or exit entirely. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=3#post-117155 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 10:08:36 +0000 crowriver 117155@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I was trying to be funny in a context which was inappropriate.</em></p> <p>Peter Sagan probably said something similar in his video apology earlier in the year. I dunno, I didn't watch it. The reaction to his inappropriate behaviour (bordering on sexual harrassment) was interesting. He was roundly condemned from all quarters, not only for his lewd behaviour but also for breaking the rule regarding the podium women: you can look but don't touch.</p> <p>The tension between this perfectly reasonable rule and the quasi-sexualised nature of the ritual itself (though rather formal, with only 'acquaintance' kissing allowed) lends the whole spectacle a bit of a frisson. The women in these ceremonies are a bit like latter day Vestals, garlanding the returning victors. They are dressed quite formally (a bit like airline or hotel staff) which is in stark contrast to the equivalent roles in motorsports (or, it seems, darts).</p> <p>There's a formality and a chasteness about the TdF rituals which makes them distinctive. I can't help but think this is partly due to France's (ostensible) Catholicism. Personally I see these differences as important enough that they codify how the victors (and by extension the audience) ought to behave. The rituals do not suspend wider norms about how people who don't know each other well should behave to one another. Whether these qualities make the rituals any less acceptable to those who view them as subjugating women is neither here nor there. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=3#post-117151 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 09:41:27 +0000 Two Tired 117151@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>+100 what Ruggtomcat said!</p> <p>And my own personal thanks to Cyclingmollie for:</p> <p>"<em>You're right of course. I was trying to be funny in a context which was inappropriate."</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=3#post-117150 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 09:32:09 +0000 Cyclingmollie 117150@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>ruggtomcat: <em>"the fact that fit people are attractive is beside the point, the fit men are depicted doing something heroic, the fit women are only there to highlight the men's heroism. Its not about boobs, its about roles."</em> </p> <p>You're right of course. I was trying to be funny in a context which was inappropriate. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10633&page=3#post-117148 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 09:30:07 +0000 ruggtomcat 117148@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The thing is any overarching ideology such as patriarchy is essentially invisible from the inside. Only the outsiders see the prejudices inherent in the culture because thoes predjudices dont effect the cis majority. To understand as a male what effect the podium girls have you have to put yourself in the place of someone who has only ever had podium girls to aspire too, we can all dream about being Bradly Wiggins, but its only very recently that anyone could dream of being Victoria Pendleton. </p> <p>Progress is being made but its not being helped by refusing to accept that thease outdated images of females do not belong in our society anymore. Would you rather your daughters grew up to be Ellen Mcarthur or Pam Anderson? </p> <p>And the sad thing is we oppress ourselves with it too, its called internalized socialization. Men are just as trapped into being strong, confident, breadwinning baby makers. this article may be illuminating. <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/125512616" rel="nofollow">http://www.democraticunderground.com/125512616</a> </p>