http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Nice Way Code - the 'code' en Wed, 08 Apr 2026 01:17:40 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858&page=2#post-357165 Fri, 26 Nov 2021 10:52:30 +0000 Murun Buchstansangur 357165@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It seems that Transport for London has gone full Nice Way Code. Not cool</p> <p><a href="https://twitter.com/FamilyByCycle/status/1463779259726671874" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/FamilyByCycle/status/1463779259726671874</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858&page=2#post-120798 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 21:04:39 +0000 Cycle PC 120798@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The Education phase(s) are/were run in conjunction with (by) CEC. During the week of action, there was still a lot of education and engineering, probably more than the enforcement part, unfortunately media like stats to report on and the number of people being charged often overshadows the number of people actually spoken to, or engaged with, engagement being the 4th E if you like.</p> <p>I have PM'd you Chris, and hopefully I can get along to PY for a coffee and some cake. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858&page=2#post-120795 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 20:49:44 +0000 chdot 120795@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Until I get back and find out more about the operational side, then I'm not really qualified to comment too much."</p> <p>Fair enough (get well soon). </p> <p>One problem 'we' have with all this is the claim about the 3Es -</p> <p>education, engineering, enforcement </p> <p>The latter seems to consist of the (successful) week that has already happened - with no indication of repeats. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858&page=2#post-120793 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 20:46:45 +0000 kaputnik 120793@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Personally, I think any campaign that gets drivers thinking more about cyclists is a good thing</em></p> <p>I do agree with you. And all the facts I've been tweeting relentlessly for past week on Twitter support this, as the majority of cyclist KSIs are driver-fault. Which is why I'm spitting with rage that so much of the nicewaycode is focussed on re-inforcing negative stereotypes about cyclists and is patronising claptrap aimed directly at cyclist. I'd be up for a well spent £500k road safety campaign aimed at protecting cyclists, in confrontation with proper funding and legal backing from government and authorities. But that's not what we're getting. They've asked focus groups of drivers what they want to hear, they've listened to the preconceptions from the panel and then they've told them what they want to hear right back to them. It's actually quite a dangerous approach. I worry that because this is coming from an "official" agency, and reinforcing this concept that all cyclists go through red, and that therefore must be root cause of all road-related evil that people will actually believe it and take it as fact. There's no evidence or facts to support either viewpoint by the way. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858&page=2#post-120790 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 20:31:28 +0000 Cycle PC 120790@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hi Chris,</p> <p>You're right, my bad, apologies. I just zoomed in from the twitter feed and missed that!!!</p> <p>Unfortunately I am off work just now (have been since May, nerve damage in shoulder), and have only been following campaign on social media etc. </p> <p>I think the idea of 'Increasing respect for each other' is a good thing, and has always been what I have believed in, and what I have tried to do. Personally, I think any campaign that gets drivers thinking more about cyclists is a good thing.</p> <p>Until I get back and find out more about the operational side, then I'm not really qualified to comment too much.</p> <p>Paul. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858&page=2#post-120789 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 20:30:40 +0000 wingpig 120789@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"Nothing annoys drivers more than"</em><br /> whatever the most recent most annoying thing to annoy them happened to be, if they're the type to allow themselves to be annoyed whilst operating heavy machinery.</p> <p>I once heard an alleged driving-instructor advisement which went along the lines of:<br /> ADI: "Q: what is the most important road sign?"<br /> L: "Urm... <code>STOP</code>?"<br /> ADI: "INCORRECT. The most recent road sign you saw."<br /> which is a nice try, but the correct answer would be "all the signs you have seen which are still in force due to not being superseded or nulled" but it wouldn't be so snappy.</p> <p>If the NWC was going to be even faintly based on real-world observations then there would have to be an entire leaflet just for things which are often the thing which most annoys motor vehicle operators, in order to avoid that thing about not having more than seven bullet-pointed points per slide to avoid overloading the brain's input buffer. This is probably why the proper Highway Code doesn't bother with anything more fuzzy than safety/predictability; if it were to start mentioning things like mood it'd be ten times the thickness and full of caveats.</p> <p>Maybe there's a secret underground media network reserved for those motorists who never cycle on which a more motorist-targeted version of this is circulating. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858&page=2#post-120785 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 20:19:42 +0000 chdot 120785@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hi Paul,</p> <p>don't think so. </p> <p>You are 'seeing' a no right turn sign as a filter arrow -</p> <p><a href="http://a.yfrog.com/img875/692/hc9hbl.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://a.yfrog.com/img875/692/hc9hbl.jpg</a></p> <p>What do you think of the campaign? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858&page=2#post-120784 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 20:15:11 +0000 Cycle PC 120784@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hello,</p> <p>Just had a quick look at photo and noticed there is a right turn filter at this junction which is why the lights would appear out of sync. The lights would still go through the amber phase for right turning traffic while red light for straight ahead is on.</p> <p>Paul </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858&page=2#post-120783 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 20:01:36 +0000 snowcycle 120783@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The cyclist isn't running a red, the other (circled) traffic light is on Amber. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858&page=2#post-120781 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 19:41:59 +0000 kaputnik 120781@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3723/9443759955_59e2eca25b.jpg"></p> <p>Tweet claims right-hand visual "aimed at all on wheels". When you go to the full slide, it's patently obvious who it's aimed at. The repeated use of the words "you" and "your bike" are a bit of a giveaway. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858&page=2#post-120775 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 18:51:27 +0000 chdot 120775@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@k. WELL spotted!</p> <p>@I. Likely explanation. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858&page=2#post-120773 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 18:50:43 +0000 rosscbrown 120773@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Phewwww! I feel so much safer now. Way to go, Nice Way Code! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858&page=2#post-120771 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 18:46:00 +0000 Instography 120771@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Maybe they fudged it in the studio so that she didn't actually need to run a red to make the film. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858&page=2#post-120768 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 18:35:14 +0000 kaputnik 120768@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Also, junction where it was filmed seems to have lights out-of-phase. It's clearly still amber on right when she's well across stop line...</p> <p><a href="http://twitter.yfrog.com/obhc9hblj"><img src="http://a.yfrog.com/img875/692/hc9hbl.th.jpg"></a></p> <p>Just sayin! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858#post-120767 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 18:24:03 +0000 kaputnik 120767@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Finer points of the campaign, and everything that is wrong with it aside, those adverts are frankly cringeworthy. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858#post-120763 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 17:38:28 +0000 sallyhinch 120763@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My reasoning with a yellow jacket was that in London it means 'bike' even if drivers just catch it out of the corner of their eye and they will hopefully react accordingly. Round here (rural Dumfries) it tends to mean 'man from the coonsil' and there's no knowing what drivers will do :-)</p> <p>Obviously the most important thing is lights, especially here where it gets properly dark and there's no ambient light to scatter. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858#post-120761 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 17:16:29 +0000 steveo 120761@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>For example, they do not work when a car is pulling out of a T-junction</em></p> <p>If you're relying on being seen side on then odds are you are already dead. By the time a driver processes a bike is nearly right in front of them they've already began the maneuver so either you're far enough across the front of the vehicle you've passed it or... </p> <p>You should always aim to be seen from the front, that gives you a fighting chance of the driver pulling from a side street bothering to see you. Remember head lights are angled away from where you'd be during a T-junction or side street interaction so by time your reflectives are being picked up by the turning cars lights you've passed.</p> <p>I'm not convinced "bright" colours help in any case of being seen, a Hawaiian shirt might get you noticed during the day but only because the brain might process it as different, a standard bike jacket in a sea of fluorescents is hardly going to stand out during the day and at night you're off course running decent lights flashing away which register as different in the brain due to most lights being constant. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858#post-120754 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:45:49 +0000 chdot 120754@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> The Nice Way Code (@AyeWayCode)<br /> 05/08/2013 16:07<br /> #NiceTip: cyclists, be safe, be seen.</p> <p>When oot &amp; aboot on bikes always wer something ithers wull see. Like this! </p> <p><a href="http://pic.twitter.com/mgfMjVmnaP" rel="nofollow">http://pic.twitter.com/mgfMjVmnaP</a></p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858#post-120753 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:36:38 +0000 neddie 120753@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If by reflective you mean the grey 3M bands/patches, these only work when lit by headlights <em>in the same position as the viewer i.e. the driver's headlights</em>. They work by 1000s of miniature 'corner cube reflectors' that direct the light back to its source.</p> <p>For example, they do not work when a car is pulling out of a T-junction, and you are approaching from the side, on the main road. This is because the reflective material is not lit by a light source coming from the same direction as the viewer. A brightly coloured jacket, however, will instead scatter light from all sources (street lights etc), and be more useful in this situation. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858#post-120747 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:17:47 +0000 chdot 120747@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I still don't know what I think about this!</p> <p>Rural roads, no street lights, I'd go for several lights and reflective stuff. </p> <p>But that's not <em>my</em> normal environment. </p> <p>Lights - flashing <em>does</em> say 'bike'. </p> <p>I have a 'cycling' jacket with nice reflective panels - not yellow/dayglo. </p> <p>I just ride trying to be aware of the 'unexpected' and some degree of 'escape strategy' in mind! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858#post-120746 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:17:19 +0000 sallyhinch 120746@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>yes, reflective not brightly coloured at night. The latest research I saw was that a moving reflective thing is most effective of all - so a simple reflective leg cuff is probably better than a hi-vis but not reflective jacket.</p> <p>During the day you need to stand out from your surroundings. No point wearing bright yellow cycling past a field of rape... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858#post-120745 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:12:09 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 120745@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>It is eminently sensible to dress brightly when cycling at night. At other times of the day, it shouldn't matter</em>"</p> <p>I'd personally substitute 'reflectively' for 'brightly'. Bright does give the form, but reflective is visible from further away, and the motion helps give the game away on what it might be. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858#post-120744 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:09:24 +0000 neddie 120744@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sorry SRD, but I don't agree.</p> <p>At night, motorists see your body before they see any lights (especially when looking at you from the side). Bicycle lights are not instantly recognised, nor expected, as a moving object, &amp; there are so many other 'single' light sources adding to the confusion.</p> <p>A human figure however, is much quicker for the brain to process into 'that might be a cyclist' </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858#post-120743 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:03:52 +0000 SRD 120743@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>At night lights matter far more than bright clothing. Brightness can matter on grey, drizzling foggy days, and at dusk. But would matter less if our roads were bett designed for cycles in the first lace. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858#post-120741 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 15:57:11 +0000 neddie 120741@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I wouldn't have a problem with the 'code' telling cyclists to dress brightly, if they simply added 'at night'.</p> <p>It is eminently sensible to dress brightly when cycling at night. At other times of the day, it shouldn't matter. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858#post-120736 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 15:32:00 +0000 Kirst77 120736@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Patronising, infuriating and condescending. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858#post-120715 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 14:31:32 +0000 gibbo 120715@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote>Slide 4: Nothing annoys drivers more than cyclists who don't observe the rules</blockquote></p> <p>Maybe... but cyclists don't even have to break the rules in order to anger a lot of drivers.</p> <p>Cycling away from the kerb - for reasons like there are parked cars ahead and you want to make sure you're going to have the space to move out, or because the left hand side of the road is in too bad a state to cycle on (e.g. Abbeymount end of Easter Road) - also angers many drivers.</p> <p>In fact, cycling on the roads and holding them up for even a few seconds, angers some drivers.</p> <p>As long as there's the "they don't even pay road tax" brigade, there's going to be drivers who are angry with cyclists. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858#post-120706 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 13:36:13 +0000 crowriver 120706@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>The adverts go to some length to show cyclists in "normal clothes". However. the code tells people to dress "brightly" (hmmm, I wonder what that could mean).</em></p> <p>Oh, they had this one sussed in the 1970s:</p> <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MFuSMz1zh0" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MFuSMz1zh0</a></p> <p>What I like about this is it shows kids *maintaining their own bikes* and also *riding in the road on their own*. In many ways a lot more positive than the FUD we get dished out these days. No lycra and not a h****t to be seen either!</p> <p>Not sure about the hi-viz wellies or Bacofoil jackets mind you. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858#post-120703 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 13:35:13 +0000 ARobComp 120703@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Please note that the website uses s $60 wordpress theme....</p> <p>So thats £500,000 - £40 = £499,960 to spend on design and implementation (mostly on the TV adverts I guess) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10858#post-120702 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 13:28:56 +0000 Morningsider 120702@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This is how I see the NWC having come about:</p> <p>Civil servant 1: The Minister wants us to do something about cyclists and road safety.</p> <p>Civil servant 2 : Okay, what's the budget?</p> <p>CS1: £424,000.</p> <p>CS2: (Laughter) - you mean million...</p> <p>CS1: No...</p> <p>CS2: Did the Minister say what this "something" had to be?</p> <p>CS1: No, just "something"</p> <p>CS2: How much is a mile of segregated cycle lane?</p> <p>CS1: Dunno, about a million quid I would have thought.</p> <p>CS2: Okay, forget I ever mentioned that, here's something we could probably afford... </p>