http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: (OT?) Demolish Morningside en Mon, 18 May 2026 15:28:21 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920&page=2#post-154981 Wed, 28 May 2014 11:52:08 +0000 SRD 154981@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This is a pretty good read: </p> <p><a href="http://drpetermatthews.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/why-improvement-service-is-wrong-on.html" rel="nofollow">http://drpetermatthews.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/why-improvement-service-is-wrong-on.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920&page=2#post-122385 Tue, 20 Aug 2013 13:04:51 +0000 crowriver 122385@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well someone mentioned the 'c' word earlier: class.</p> <p>That is the main 'issue' which Craigmillar faces, that more prosperous areas have fewer worries about. This I think is the crux of the (rhetorical) call to demolish Morningside.</p> <p>Musselburgh is quite different: it is not a largely homogenous 'ghetto' of a particular class/socioeconomic group, whether 'working', 'middle', or 'upper'. It's a historical, semi-rural town which replicates in miniature the larger class/social differences/divisions of similar towns in the Lothians and Borders. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920&page=2#post-122382 Tue, 20 Aug 2013 12:56:48 +0000 chdot 122382@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I wasn't making comment about 'issues' - other than the results of changing employment opportunities. </p> <p>The comparison with Musselburgh was on a population basis and the difference between gradual and 'mass' development <em>plus</em> per capita shops/social/other facilities planned (and delivered). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920&page=2#post-122377 Tue, 20 Aug 2013 12:32:56 +0000 crowriver 122377@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@SRD, sure, and the points chdot makes are all valid. It might be more instructive though to compare with similar 'artificial' communities/suburbs with relatively few amenities, but with very different social compositions, eg. East Craigs. Or communities/areas which had a historical role which is now largely gone, eg. Granton.</p> <p>Craigmillar's not the only part of Edinburgh to face issues: Gracemount, Muirhouse, Wester Hailes, Pilton, even more connected areas like Sighthill, Restalrig, Northfield, Bingham.....maybe somewhere like Oxgangs has had more prosperity in recent years, due to proximity to Morningside and Colinton/Craiglockhart (and the consequent selling on of much of the council housing stock). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920&page=2#post-122375 Tue, 20 Aug 2013 12:24:09 +0000 SRD 122375@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Wasn't that the point that chdot was making? that simply lumping a number of people into adjoining housing does not a community make? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920&page=2#post-122374 Tue, 20 Aug 2013 12:21:49 +0000 crowriver 122374@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Craigmillar had the population of Mussleburgh</em></p> <p>Perhaps in numerical terms. Both are on the edge of Edinburgh. There the similarities end.</p> <p>Musselburgh is a historical port, has a large stake in the establishment (Loretto school, Brunton theatre, QMU campus, race course, etc.), and has much better transport connections with other settlements (including a rail station). It's also administratively separate from Edinburgh, being the largest population centre in East Lothian.</p> <p>So to compare Musselburgh with Craigmillar is not fair on the latter. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122369 Tue, 20 Aug 2013 11:51:13 +0000 SRD 122369@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>further from a friend:</p> <p>Could you please let the person know that the John Maxwell mural, entitled Children's Games and Amusements is available to see, it was restored using a Heritage Lottery grant - best to contact the building owner Castlerock Edinvar on 659 4700 to arrange. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122199 Sun, 18 Aug 2013 11:37:52 +0000 KarenJS 122199@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks for the info! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122198 Sun, 18 Aug 2013 11:36:58 +0000 chdot 122198@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Presume so (a while since I've been). </p> <p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebenezer_James_MacRae" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebenezer_James_MacRae</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.policeboxes.com/pboxhist.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.policeboxes.com/pboxhist.htm</a></p> <p><a href="http://planetedinburgh.wordpress.com/2012/04/08/the-edinburgh-police-box" rel="nofollow">http://planetedinburgh.wordpress.com/2012/04/08/the-edinburgh-police-box</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevefaeembra/sets/72157615772697549/" rel="nofollow">http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevefaeembra/sets/72157615772697549/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122197 Sun, 18 Aug 2013 11:31:06 +0000 KarenJS 122197@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Oh, I hadn't realised it was SPACE! Tho it seems obvious now you say it. Is it possible just to go in and have a look? I love the mural. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122195 Sun, 18 Aug 2013 11:19:01 +0000 chdot 122195@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Increasingly hidden by new building -</p> <p><a href="http://www.scottisharts.org.uk/1/artsinscotland/lotteryandthearts/capitalprojects/archive/castlerock.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.scottisharts.org.uk/1/artsinscotland/lotteryandthearts/capitalprojects/archive/castlerock.aspx</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_B/0_buildings_-_art_space_craigmillar_john_maxwell_mural_047843.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_B/0_buildings_-_art_space_craigmillar_john_maxwell_mural_047843.htm</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122194 Sun, 18 Aug 2013 11:15:22 +0000 KarenJS 122194@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I work in Craigmillar, where is the old primary school? Have to say I love the open green spaces at the moment tho doubt that will last long. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122190 Sun, 18 Aug 2013 10:56:17 +0000 chdot 122190@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"i don't think it was a serious suggestion, more a way of getting us to think about the issues."</p> <p>I assumed that to be true and <em>almost</em> went, but decided it wasn't quite the Festival entertainment I was looking for and suspected (perhaps wrongly) that the 'thought provoking' bit wouldn't come up with many usable 'answers'. </p> <p>"alleged solution of knocking down the high rise buildings that were the perceived solutions themselves in the 1950s and 1960s"</p> <p>Yes - 'housing'. </p> <p>At various times better housing has been seen as 'the answer' and in many senses it was/is. </p> <p>Houses in Craigmillar were <em>much</em> better than the single-ends and tiny tenement flats that families moved from. </p> <p>But I have family connections to people who weren't so keen on the shiny new settlement on the edge of the city and some moved back to the South Side as soon as they could. </p> <p>Rich people seem to like tower blocks - New York, London etc. - so it's not the type of building as such - though design/build on the cheap and inadequate maintenance (spending) will limit function and longevity. </p> <p>As I mentioned on another thread, Craigmillar had the population of Mussleburgh, but without as many shops and general social infrastructure that small towns develop (over time). </p> <p>When it was first built there were half a dozen breweries, a creamery and pits close by. </p> <p>Without easy access to employment the character of the area changed and much of it became 'hard to let' with a continuing downward spiral of inadequate maintenance resulting in the demolition of large amounts of basically sound housing units. </p> <p>Today there is a mix of new housing and a lot of empty space waiting for (re-) development. Close by, more housing on green field sites. </p> <p>By contrast the 'inner city' - including Tollcross, South Side, Gorgie-Dalry, parts of Leith - benefitted (mostly 70s and 80s) from grants to upgrade - adding baths and showers etc. for the first time. </p> <p>The original Craigmillar Primary (building) survives due to the random consequences of an Edinburgh College of Art student painting a mural in the dining hall. He later became a highly regarded Scottish Painter and the mural became "listed" - and so did the building surrounding it. </p> <p>But not the housing - even though the architect of both also produced the Police Boxes that lie unused across the city (a few are coffee kiosks). </p> <p>There are a few in Morningside. One serves coffee. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122187 Sun, 18 Aug 2013 10:15:55 +0000 SRD 122187@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>We had a fab minister in Polwarth who left to live in muirhouse on principle. miss her a lot. </p> <p>I'm a big fan of the easterhouses guy. Know some Jesuits like him in Zimbabwe too. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122184 Sun, 18 Aug 2013 10:06:25 +0000 gembo 122184@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@SRD that was my reading, they are referring to the alleged solution of knocking down the high rise buildings that were the perceived solutions themselves in the 1950s and 1960s, that kind of thing, not meant to be taken literally, just provocative.</p> <p>Middle class mahatma Gandhi quadrant leftist liberal types like myself, occasionally carry out research by trying to live in sink estates but they rarely last long. There is an activist in Glasgow who has lived in easterhouse for decades despite being middle class and the minister in muirhouse did it.</p> <p>Solutions proposed by the middle class for dealing with the underclass? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122181 Sun, 18 Aug 2013 09:54:49 +0000 SRD 122181@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>i don't think it was a serious suggestion, more a way of getting us to think about the issues. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122179 Sun, 18 Aug 2013 09:40:41 +0000 Charterhall 122179@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And how is 'demolishing' middle class areas going to help ? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122168 Sun, 18 Aug 2013 08:29:08 +0000 SRD 122168@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I didn't go to the event, but I presume the idea is that we often demolish areas perceived to have social problems, while the speakers were suggest instead that the 'problem' is to do with inequality. That is, the diagnosis and 'solution' tagetting wrong focus. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122164 Sun, 18 Aug 2013 07:16:39 +0000 Charterhall 122164@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I don't understand this thread. I presume that Morningside has been picked on because it is middle class, meaning that its residents are likely to be well educated, professional in their work ethic, to take care of their health, to take care of their environment and in many cases to enjoy cycling. Why would you want to demolish that ? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122154 Sat, 17 Aug 2013 21:58:34 +0000 cb 122154@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In Waitrose it would be interesting to count how many people come into the shop down the stairs/lifts (i.e. by car) against the number coming in through the door (most probably on foot).</p> <p>Well, not that interesting. Much higher proportion of foot traffic than other supermarkets I'd wager. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122126 Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:36:26 +0000 cc 122126@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@gembo got me there! But I think the now well established tendency of shop takings to leap skywards when a street is made a lot more attractive for active travel ought to keep Waitrose happy, and the car-borne shoppers won't be allowed onto Morningside Road when I rule the earth. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122103 Sat, 17 Aug 2013 09:34:16 +0000 gembo 122103@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@cc, there is a slight contradiction in your jocularly linking waitroses with traffic ban as both shops must contribute greatly to the traffic as they have managed to exist in high density suburbs because of rooftop car parks </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122060 Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:55:25 +0000 Charterhall 122060@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There's several areas of Edinburgh that I'd like to see demolished but Morningside isn't one of them. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122034 Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:20:59 +0000 chdot 122034@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@cc</p> <p>+1 </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-122026 Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:11:14 +0000 cc 122026@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sorry, but there's <em>no way</em> I'm cycling right across the city centre to get to the other Waitrose, so Morningside will have to stay. </p> <p>A better improvement would be to make Morningside Road impassable to through traffic. Permit the buses somehow (rising bollards?) and allow deliveries to shops in limited hours, but otherwise let it be for pedestrians and cyclists. Bliss. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-121980 Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:30:08 +0000 gembo 121980@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@SRD south west England branch of British Psychological Society run a psychology in the pub series, you can get philosophy too. I have a very rude joke about a freelance ethnographer in the pub, but I cannot tell you it </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-121917 Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:12:28 +0000 cb 121917@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Chipped-potato emporium if you don't mind. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-121913 Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:06:14 +0000 Greenroofer 121913@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>You can't demolish Morningside: we've just had our new cycle hoop installed by the chip shop, so it would be a waste. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-121874 Thu, 15 Aug 2013 10:45:57 +0000 Uberuce 121874@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In the rather good Deus Ex: Human Revolutions, Hong Kong takes this idea and runs with it, building a second city on vast stilts above the old one. Naturally the exodus of wealthy residents and blocking of sunlight means the ground level becomes a Blade Runner style future slum, while the upper level, rising above the pollution and basking in sunlight, is your 50's optimistic sci-fi trope. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10920#post-121867 Thu, 15 Aug 2013 09:50:50 +0000 crowriver 121867@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Whoops, double post due to sluggish wi-fi on train... </p>