CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter

CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter en Fri, 22 May 2026 04:54:27 +0000 fimm on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039&page=2#post-123833 Wed, 04 Sep 2013 10:30:35 +0000 fimm 123833@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ The hire car we had this holiday made a beeping sound when it went over 70 (but not otherwise - apart when it was getting low on diesel). It was quite useful, although you had to drop quite a bit below 70 to get it to reset, and it really annoyed my boyfriend as I like to sit just around or below 70 on the motorway and kept setting the thing off every time I went over. (He just tried to sit just above 70...) Instography on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039&page=2#post-123803 Tue, 03 Sep 2013 23:53:57 +0000 Instography 123803@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ But mkns and cycletrain both assume that the device experiences some fundamental flaw that would be revealed under testing. I think you're mistaken. I think the device is not a device at all, or at least is intelligent enough to self-rectify under scrutiny. An analogy over-stretched. Kenny on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039&page=2#post-123790 Tue, 03 Sep 2013 20:11:38 +0000 Kenny 123790@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ But @cycletrain, is your device regularly tested to prove it is still able to drive the vehicle safely? This is one of the major flaws in the system that should be rectified. Personally, I think all such devices should be required to be re-tested to show that it is still fit for purpose, ideally every 3 years. I think we all believe that over time, the abilities of such devices improves over time, but actually, they also degrade in areas that are not so simple for the owner to identify. Regular testing is the way forward. Speed limiters might be too, but I'm on the fence on that one. cycletrain on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123766 Tue, 03 Sep 2013 13:24:45 +0000 cycletrain 123766@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ This is old technology. My car has a speed limiter that works on a combination of location, reading signs, assessing levels of danger and keeping within the legal requirements for road use. It was installed in 1987 for a "provisional" period and after testing was was fully operational. This device can drive the vehicle safely, smoothly, progressively and well although can be prone to the odd glitch. However, it has been further adapted to do numeorus other tasks (although not when controlling a vehicle). I would like to think that all other vehicles have similar devices but sadly I suspect not to the same quality. ;) gkgk on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123765 Tue, 03 Sep 2013 13:14:34 +0000 gkgk 123765@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @instography "The logic of the argument - as it was set out above in relation to overtaking is that it should kill one 'innocent fellow' for every overtaking gambler it kills. That'll learn 'em. " Yes, not sure about 1:1 or teaching people but I think forced lower speeds would save lives overall and would to some extent also help move the risks over towards those creating the danger. Fewer panicked drivers accelerating into passers-by. rust on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123745 Tue, 03 Sep 2013 09:22:17 +0000 rust 123745@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "I do like the idea of the buzzing or bleeping sound when the car is over the limit." My gps does this - and to be honest I turn it off. There are two reasons for this. Firstly it's really annoying! Secondly it tends to get the position of the change in speed limit wrong, so it'll beep at you despite the limit having changed - which is when it's annoying. It's only set to trigger when you go 10mph over the speed limit, so it only gets triggered if the limits change and it's not noticed yet. It does make you very aware though. And actually last week in France was great as they don't seem to put signs up for the speed limits in a lot of places??? Wilmington's Cow on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123744 Tue, 03 Sep 2013 09:06:53 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 123744@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "I suppose the limit has to be set somewhere, but is the company not opening themselves up for corporate liability by knowingly having drivers going around with 40, 50 offences every 12 weeks and not passing that information on to the police (or letting them go)? Suppose there was a serious collision and it came out after the police sub the data that the driver was a serial lawbreaker and the company knew" Depends on so much. The 'black box' isn't mandated by law; presumably while it's technically accurate does it have regular calibration tests carried out by the police; would it be possible to use the spreadsheet of data in a court of law if you have something that's not official kit and not subject to such tight scrutiny but is merely a tool for a company to keep tabs on its employees (I'd have serious doubts the 'evidence' of the spreadsheet could be relied on in court); and finally, if someone has a crash through their innattention (SMIDSY for example), does having 60 instances of going 4mph over the limit in 9 months, registered on a non-official uncalibrated optional system point to someone being more liable to SMIDSY? I do like the idea of the buzzing or bleeping sound when the car is over the limit. rust on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123743 Tue, 03 Sep 2013 08:47:54 +0000 rust 123743@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "Such things as: 34mph in a 30mph zone for 4 seconds...." Now while in an ideal world where a speed limit was a limit and not an average then 60 such offences would be an issue, but do we maybe have to accept that we're not yet in a position where we can discipline drivers for briefly going over the speed limit? I actually like the idea of an audible noise for breaking the limit, if only because there would be no excuse for a driver if they caused an accident and claimed they weren't aware of their speed. Instography on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123742 Tue, 03 Sep 2013 08:46:44 +0000 Instography 123742@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ If 4 seconds at 34mph in a 30 zone counts as an offence then I'm not surprised it takes 20 to get a warning. It's often interesting watching how long it takes a TomTom to recognise that it is now on a road with a different speed limit just because of the inherent inaccuracy of GPS receivers. Between that and the tendency for people to drift around the speed limit, even when they're trying to drive to the limit makes me think that it should be pretty easy to rack up 20 'offences' a day. Maybe a higher threshold for an offence and fewer offences before action would be better. "Locking down speeds (which is where this'll get to, eventually, I hope) would save 10 innocent fellows for every one amber gambler it kills." The logic of the argument - as it was set out above in relation to overtaking is that it should kill one 'innocent fellow' for every overtaking gambler it kills. That'll learn 'em. Dave on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123738 Tue, 03 Sep 2013 08:15:15 +0000 Dave 123738@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ A warning for 20 offenses in a rolling quarter. 3 warnings and it's a safe-driving course for them! I suppose the limit has to be set somewhere, but is the company not opening themselves up for corporate liability by knowingly having drivers going around with 40, 50 offences every 12 weeks and not passing that information on to the police (or letting them go)? Suppose there was a serious collision and it came out after the police sub the data that the driver was a serial lawbreaker and the company knew. On the other hand, I suppose it's better to know at all than incentivise fleets not to monitor their drivers because they might become liable for knowing they break the law. Tricky. cc on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123736 Tue, 03 Sep 2013 07:51:19 +0000 cc 123736@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @gkgk agreed. This is reminiscent of when the wearing of seatbelts was made compulsory in cars. The opposition to it kept going on about those car crashes where people survive by being "thrown clear". ISTR such crashes did happen but of course they were vastly outnumbered by the crashes where people were horribly injured just by being "thrown" at all. gkgk on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123732 Tue, 03 Sep 2013 01:22:04 +0000 gkgk 123732@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Not persuaded by the idea of accelerating away from trouble. Locking down speeds (which is where this'll get to, eventually, I hope) would save 10 innocent fellows for every one amber gambler it kills. Imagine if the cars were all limited to 20 in town! It's telling that that is a pipedream but, my goodness, I can't wait! Baldcyclist on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123697 Mon, 02 Sep 2013 16:58:01 +0000 Baldcyclist 123697@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Really, 60 offences before they are sent on a course? Coxy on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123694 Mon, 02 Sep 2013 16:18:39 +0000 Coxy 123694@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ The information is only passed on to the police if there is a legal requirement - ie. an accident. shuggiet on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123691 Mon, 02 Sep 2013 15:57:21 +0000 shuggiet 123691@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Interesting Coxy! That would imply that employers who have this information, and fail to act on it ,would be very liable if their employee subsequently causes an accident, whilst speeding driving a company vehicle. That could a be a substantial stick to force change for many of the corporate fleets of vehicles out there. Coxy on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123688 Mon, 02 Sep 2013 15:20:15 +0000 Coxy 123688@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ We have these at work. I regularly get emails with spreadsheets showing when the staff I manage are caught speeding. Such things as: 34mph in a 30mph zone for 4 seconds.... A warning for 20 offenses in a rolling quarter. 3 warnings and it's a safe-driving course for them! amir on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123686 Mon, 02 Sep 2013 14:59:03 +0000 amir 123686@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ This? <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20143969" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20143969</a> tarmac jockey on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123683 Mon, 02 Sep 2013 14:48:22 +0000 tarmac jockey 123683@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Should the Insurance Companies not be lobbying to have black boxes fitted to road vehicles. If nothing else, the information would be extremely useful in the event of accident settlements, thefts etc. The Police would be able to report accurately on speed etc... PS on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123681 Mon, 02 Sep 2013 14:08:06 +0000 PS 123681@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I'm sure the techniology could potentially limit the speed of the car, but my point was that the study showed significant results even when it didn't limit speed. If nothing else, it removes the driver's excuse of "I did't realise that this was a xxmph limit" or "I didn't realise I was going so fast". cb on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123677 Mon, 02 Sep 2013 13:40:16 +0000 cb 123677@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I thought the guy on the Today programme said that it could potentially limit the speed of the car? I think the stats were a reduction in deaths by 20% and serious injuries by 14%. Not sure if that was for car occupents of all road users. The bit I heard was a very short piece, less than one minute. PS on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123675 Mon, 02 Sep 2013 13:29:21 +0000 PS 123675@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ There was a piece on the Today programme this morning on this, which was basically an interview with an academic involved in the study IIRC. I think the gist of this was that the study involved drivers receiving some sort of notification that they had gone over the speed limit. It didn't limit the speed of the car or "slam the brakes on", but just let the driver know. I can't remember the stats, but the results sounded pretty impressive - a significant reduction in the time that drivers spent above the speed limit. Sounds like an ideal solution for all those EEN commentators who are concerned that 20mph zones will cause drivers to crash everywhere because they are too busy staring at their speedometers. Edinburgh Cycle Training on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123673 Mon, 02 Sep 2013 13:01:12 +0000 Edinburgh Cycle Training 123673@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I'd be surprised if technology couldn't be 'intuitive' and detect a rapid/sudden acceleration for a short period of time (such as when overtaking) and know to ignore it, but yet physically slow the vehicle down once it realises that the speed limit is being exceeded in a general/sustained driving sense. cb on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123672 Mon, 02 Sep 2013 12:54:37 +0000 cb 123672@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Whatever system is used, I doubt the car will "slam on the brakes" as described in the first sentence of the Daily Mail article. That article also mentions a potential system of using a camera to read the speed limit signs - which would lead to the potential for some jolly japes with some guerrilla speed sign erecting. Wilmington's Cow on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123660 Mon, 02 Sep 2013 10:38:36 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 123660@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I can see where Insto is coming from on this. You fit the limiters and yes, hurrah, it stops people speeding. But people will still take risks. They'll think 'that gap is big enough', or try to overtake before a curve in the road or before a blind dip. In the past they'd have accelerated to 90 and been gone. Now please, please, please, I AM NOT SAYING THAT IT IS RIGHT FOR THEM TO DO SO! So with a limiter they go for the same gap, only they hit the limiter, and suddenly that gap isn't as big as it seemed, or a car 'appears' from round the corner or in the dip. Braking is definitely the only solution as you can't speed up - and having seen many many cases with people cutting it fine accelerating out of that situation seems to be the default, it's up to tghe other person to brake, but now they have to brake, but it takes a second longer for the brain to compute, and the vehicle being overtake brakes in panic (because that's the default for the driver in that position). Of course after a while people will learn and realise, and it's something that could, should, would get into the psyche of every driver and make the majority actually think before making such an overtake. But before we reach that tipping point there genuinely IS the chance that it could increase the number of incidents. We do have to realise that there's a fundamental fallability in human nature that means we make mistakes, we can't eradicate them all. We can make things better, but you'll never get rid of every single SMIDSY, or daft overtake, or close pass, no matter how much you legislate, enforce or require through technology. Of course the majority of the shouty people complaining about it simply want to be able to drive fast, the 'more accidents' is probably a convenient excuse that they haven't actually thought through. And despite the above I'd have no problem with them bringing these in (they were actually covered on Top Gear or Drive about 15 years ago and the same overtaking query was raised, but it shows how long the technology has been around). Have to make sure the technology does really work if it's a genuine limiter that will slow you down - as mentioned above GPS has its quirks and there could be trouble if you're on a 70mph motorway and pass under a bridge that has a 40 limit and the computer hits the brakes. cc on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123654 Mon, 02 Sep 2013 09:55:00 +0000 cc 123654@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ This reminds me of a bit in a William Gibson book, "Idoru". Some Americans and a Japanese man, in a slightly future Tokyo, are urgently exceeding the speed limit in their van while having a conversation: "I guess it must be capable of it," Laney said, as something under her seat began to clang, loudly and insistently. "But I don't think that means it'll necessarily happen. What the hell is that?" "I'm exceeding the speed limit", she said. "Every vehicle in Japan is legally required to be equipped with one of these devices. You speed, it dings." Laney turned to Yamazaki. "Is that true?" "Of course", Yamazaki said, over the steady clanging. "And people don't just disconnect them?" "No," Yamazaki said, looking puzzled. "Why would they?" Morningsider on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123653 Mon, 02 Sep 2013 09:45:25 +0000 Morningsider 123653@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Actually a very interesting subject this. The European Commission has been funding lots of research into Intelligent Speed Adaptation (plus lots of other road safety initiatives) for a number of years. More information at: <a href="http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/specialist/knowledge/speed/new_technologies_new_opportunities/intelligent_speed_adaptation_isa.htm" rel="nofollow">http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/specialist/knowledge/speed/new_technologies_new_opportunities/intelligent_speed_adaptation_isa.htm</a> In essence, there are three versions of this system. One warns you that you are over the limit, one applies pressure against the accelerator as you go over the limit - making it harder to speed and leaving you in no doubt that you are - and the other prevents you from going over the limit. There have been on-road trials in Sweden and the Netherlands and Leeds University has played a key role in the research and development of such systems. rust on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123651 Mon, 02 Sep 2013 09:27:45 +0000 rust 123651@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <blockquote>it's debateable whether it's safer to accelerate or slow down</blockquote> I'm not convince many people in that situation are accelerating OUT of that scenario. I would imagine most are dangerously overtaking by breaking the speed limit throughout the manoeuvre and purposely leaving too little margin for error. Certainly if I'm overtaking someone at 70 or 80 there is no way my car is achieving a suitable amount of acceleration to get me out of trouble. Instography on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123649 Mon, 02 Sep 2013 09:18:10 +0000 Instography 123649@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ It seems unlikely that an installed limiter wouldn't be able to be over-ridden in precisely that scenario. It would just need to be chosen. But let's say it can't and someone misjudges the space for overtaking or just fails to see that behind that tree some way down the other carriageway there's a car and they pull out. Depending on the position relative to the vehicle being overtaken it's debateable whether it's safer to accelerate or slow down. There's a real risk that the vehicle you're overtaking will also slow down leaving you stuck out in the wrong lane. What are you saying: that those drivers (and the luckless sod coming the other way) should just die? gibbo on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123645 Mon, 02 Sep 2013 08:52:49 +0000 gibbo 123645@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <blockquote>The article quotes an AA spokeman "If you were overtaking a tractor and suddenly needed to accelerate to avoid a head-on collision, you would not be able to." Hello? You should be overtaking only when it is safe to do so and surely you should brake to avoid a head-on.</blockquote> Not just "safe", but "legal". "These limiters would prevent drivers from breaking the speed limit after they perform dangerous overtaking maneuvers". Tulyar on "Britain fights EU's 'Big Brother' bid to fit every car with speed limiter" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11039#post-123640 Mon, 02 Sep 2013 05:20:46 +0000 Tulyar 123640@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Most vehicles driven by vocational drivers have, as a minimum, an electronic tachograph, and on may the data from the tacho and vehicle condition monitoring can be remotely downloaded, as it is happening. A few vehicles on 'local work and registered local bus services under 50Km etc can operate without a tacho but often have GPS tracking anyway. Moving to private cars, many now have datalogging already, and can be downloaded, and remotely monitored just as the commercial fleet, indeed this has been used to identify some hit & run vehicles. So for all dear Patrick's fizzing and hopping about, it is but a small bit of blustering about something already largely in place on many vehicles. I hired a car 18 months ago with a GPS system that annoyingly confused a dual carriageway with a 70mph limit with the occasional road going over or under it and bleating out a standard message that I was exceeding the speed limit!