http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "duff scheme with poor pedestrian and cycle provision" South Queensferry en Mon, 18 May 2026 17:22:56 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=7#post-378867 Mon, 03 Mar 2025 08:25:09 +0000 gembo 378867@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Time to rattle our Sabres</p> <p>Before we turn into terminal moraine. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=7#post-378866 Mon, 03 Mar 2025 01:00:49 +0000 bakky 378866@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's a mammoth task getting my head round the pace of change </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=7#post-378865 Sun, 02 Mar 2025 23:07:40 +0000 gembo 378865@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Recent in terms of Ice Age and Glaciation </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-378864 Sun, 02 Mar 2025 22:41:27 +0000 bakky 378864@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks - it must have been the word 'recently' that caught me out - I should have known by now that would mean something measured in years! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-378863 Sun, 02 Mar 2025 22:09:45 +0000 Frenchy 378863@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Probably this: <a href="https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/southqueensferry/" rel="nofollow">https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/southqueensferry/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-378860 Sun, 02 Mar 2025 18:26:28 +0000 bakky 378860@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From TEC March '25 report:<br /> <a href="https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/s81238/8.1%20-%20Traffic%20Calming%20Measures%20-%20Dalmeny%20Park%20Estate.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/s81238/8.1%20-%20Traffic%20Calming%20Measures%20-%20Dalmeny%20Park%20Estate.pdf</a></p> <p><strong>4.1</strong> Officers are currently finalising proposals to introduce two raised table traffic calming / pedestrian crossing features on Scotstoun Avenue. Additional physical traffic calming features are also proposed on Burdock Road, alongside bollards within the Dalmeny Park Estate to improve pedestrian safety. The latter two features have been included following representation from a Ward Councillor and local residents.</p> <p><strong>4.2</strong> The design is now complete, and it is expected the features will be installed in spring 2025.</p> <p><strong>4.3</strong> The implementation of this scheme has faced delays and significant challenges due to:</p> <p>—— <strong>4.3.1</strong> An interaction with a planned Capital Maintenance scheme for Scotstoun Avenue. Installing an earlier iteration of the traffic calming scheme in advance of the Capital Maintenance schemes would have led to abortive work;</p> <p>—— <strong>4.3.2</strong> Historical reliance on external consultants to carry out design work for the earlier iteration of the scheme. The external consultant did not perform as expected leading to delays;</p> <p>—— <strong>4.3.3</strong> Resource constraints, competing priorities, and significant staff changes; and</p> <p>—— <strong>4.3.4</strong> More recently, the announcement of <strong>an Active Travel scheme on Scotstoun Avenue</strong>. This compromised the earlier design, and development of a new design was required to align with this scheme. </p> <p><strong>5.1</strong> The proposed measures will be progressed for implementation in spring 2025. </p> <p>---</p> <p>Anyone have an inkling which scheme 4.3.4 "an Active Travel scheme on Scotstoun Avenue" is referring to? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-293038 Sat, 06 Oct 2018 22:21:02 +0000 minus six 293038@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em> Traffic calming measures will be introduced on Scotstoun Avenue by the site entrance that will reduce speeds and help to avoid conflict between cyclists and other road users</em></p> <p>well there's still a pish wee temp tarmac bump on the main drag which i assume is the fuclrum of these fine words ?</p> <p>ah no, "side entrance", well that didn't happen then, unless they mean the red brick strip, which can't be described as traffic calming, no siree sir, god bless you, naw </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-292954 Fri, 05 Oct 2018 18:53:16 +0000 crowriver 292954@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think that's maybe the effect of feedback from bus operators? Could also just be the usual motor-centric Traffic Flow cognitive bias in the planning department... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-292932 Fri, 05 Oct 2018 16:44:33 +0000 acsimpson 292932@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks. It sounds like it's just a broken system them. They go through all the consultation and planning process and then the roads consent team come along and bulldozer through a car-centric solution. Perhaps the original planners really did think their solution would work but if so why didn't they fight for it. If zebra crossing are safe enough to use on George Street then surely there should be no safety concerns in a housing estate with at most a few hundred car movements a day. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-292904 Fri, 05 Oct 2018 13:44:00 +0000 Frenchy 292904@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That's the right application.</p> <p>On the previous page, @HankChief has a link to the result of an FoI request. One of the attachments is a much more detailed plan of the bus turning area, showing that the central path is not continuous. The date on this is April 2013, though, whilst the plans on the planning portal are from later in 2013.</p> <p>Worth asking the planning department for copies of the plans - they may respond more quickly than going via an FoI (maybe do an FoI anyway).</p> <p>Also worth raising it with a councillor, and asking them to ensure that this is checked as part of the adoption process.</p> <p>Be prepared to have to chase up... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-292891 Fri, 05 Oct 2018 13:14:17 +0000 acsimpson 292891@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Other than going through a FOI can anyone tell me if there is a way to get the approved road layouts for the Dalmeny Park site?</p> <p>The latest I can see on the planning portal is the original applicaiton (13/03310/AMC)</p> <p>Having trawled through it I can't find any plans which correspond to what they have built. For instance the central path is shown as continuous for it's full length (ie it takes priority over the road by the bus circle).</p> <p>There is a document simply called report which is the Development Management Sub Committee's report. It includes a rather dismissive paragraph:<br /> <em>"There will be a small extension of Scotstoun Avenue between the site entrance and the central boulevard that cyclists will have to share with other vehicles. It is not practical to have a segregated route at this point due to the requirements for bus traffic. Traffic calming measures will be introduced on Scotstoun Avenue by the site entrance that will reduce speeds and help to avoid conflict between cyclists and other road users."</em></p> <p>This description doesn't seem to tie in with what has been built at all. Instead the route from SA to the core path entails a narrow shared use pavement leading to a dangerous road crossing.</p> <p>The new path they are building on the periphery of the site also appears to have the path directly adjacent to the road which is contrary to the published plans.</p> <p>What hope is there for local democracy when plans which have been published, consulted on and then approved despite objections are torn up and replaced with something which no-one has seen. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-290157 Mon, 03 Sep 2018 11:27:41 +0000 paddyirish 290157@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Seconded - thanks @Hankchief, @acsimpson and co. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-290141 Mon, 03 Sep 2018 09:29:21 +0000 Fionam 290141@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Woo hoo... The horrible southern chicane on the slope in Dalmeny was gone this morning. Thankyou so much @hankchief and others. What a difference, cheered me up in the rain!<br /> (and good to see you at the bike marking on Saturday too) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-289817 Tue, 28 Aug 2018 14:07:14 +0000 crowriver 289817@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well done! Now looking forward to my next trip out by bike across the Forth... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-289812 Tue, 28 Aug 2018 13:16:35 +0000 Beano 289812@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well done to all who persevered on keeping on at CALA and the others. Was nice to see the chicanes removed this morning (i even sat up, took my hands off the handle bars and clapped a few times :-)) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-289811 Tue, 28 Aug 2018 13:09:40 +0000 I were right about that saddle 289811@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I wonder if it may be easier to deal with 'Lord Rosebery' under his real name: Mr Neil Primrose? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-289810 Tue, 28 Aug 2018 12:58:19 +0000 HankChief 289810@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The next challenge is Lord Rosebery's gate on Dalmeny Main Street</p> <p><a href="https://twitter.com/hank_chief/status/1034409347915362304?s=19" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/hank_chief/status/1034409347915362304?s=19</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-289809 Tue, 28 Aug 2018 12:56:48 +0000 neddie 289809@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>How could they not have known about it?</p> <p>The very first post in this thread:</p> <p><em>Architecture SQ (@ArchitectureSQ)<br /> 16/09/2013 13:08<br /> @SpokesLothian This is a duff scheme with poor pedestrian and cycle provision, and Route 1 is downgraded by it</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-289808 Tue, 28 Aug 2018 12:55:32 +0000 Frenchy 289808@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Is there any chance of ‘interested parties’ sitting down and working out why all this happened?</em></p> <p>Just when I thought the Fringe was over. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-289807 Tue, 28 Aug 2018 12:48:05 +0000 chdot 289807@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Is there any chance of ‘interested parties’ sitting down and working out why all this happened?</p> <p>Apart from voluntary time and effort, Developer and CEC staff (paid) time PLUS the waste of time and materials installing, moving and removing. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-289805 Tue, 28 Aug 2018 12:46:59 +0000 HankChief 289805@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My contact at CALA has definitely learnt from this as it wasn't something he had come across before.</p> <p>I have also suggested that they approach the local cycling community (e.g. Spokes) for guidance on future developments. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-289804 Tue, 28 Aug 2018 12:43:01 +0000 chdot 289804@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hope Cala, CEC Planning etc. LEARN something from this!</p> <p>‘We’ (esp HC) just shouldn’t have to do all this!!! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-289803 Tue, 28 Aug 2018 12:35:33 +0000 HankChief 289803@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Whoop whoop.</p> <p>Just had a call from CALA and the Southern most chicanes are coming out :-)</p> <p>Good work all. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-289736 Mon, 27 Aug 2018 16:02:49 +0000 HankChief 289736@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I don't, sorry.</p> <p>But I have just spoken with the Cala Manager and asked him to look into 2 things about the Southern Chicanes:</p> <p>1. What were they trying to achieve? No road crossings nearby etc </p> <p>2. What approvals they have?</p> <p>I did point out that as they were on a 6.08% slope (per their plans) they were especially difficult to negotiate.</p> <p>He's going to come back to me... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-289722 Mon, 27 Aug 2018 14:14:43 +0000 Frenchy 289722@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@HankChief - don't suppose you have the "General Arrangement" diagrams for other parts of the site? There's one in the response to the FOI you link to in the last page, but it doesn't have the southern end of the path in it.</p> <p>Cala say that the current barrier layout matches that of the RCC, but I'd be (slightly) surprised if the council asked for one, and only one, of the chicanes to be installed so that you meet the right hand barrier first. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-289639 Sun, 26 Aug 2018 11:36:15 +0000 HankChief 289639@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Progress! The chicanes by the quiet road have been removed as promised in the voicemail.</p> <p>This still leaves the tight Southern most ones with the muddy bypass &amp; the Northern ones near the bus turning area.</p> <p><a href="https://twitter.com/hank_chief/status/1033663645329383424?s=19">Tweet with pictures</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-289587 Fri, 24 Aug 2018 18:13:35 +0000 acsimpson 289587@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'll be passing tonight and try to get photos of the current 5 for reference.</p> <p>I'll then not be passed again until Tuesday at the earliest. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-289586 Fri, 24 Aug 2018 17:48:56 +0000 HankChief 289586@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I missed a call from a manager at Cala today, but their voicemail did say that a some chicanes are being removed tomorrow (the southern ones I presume) to bring them into compliance with the RCC.</p> <p>Sounds promising, although that does leave us with the ones CEC allowed in the RCC.</p> <p>Anyone travelling past during the next few days who can provide photos of the current/amended set up?</p> <p>I will call Cala back on Monday. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-289575 Fri, 24 Aug 2018 15:59:46 +0000 acsimpson 289575@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I had forgotten that one. It has indeed been removed making the wide path north an unobstructed route to nowhere. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11145&page=6#post-289557 Fri, 24 Aug 2018 13:20:01 +0000 fiefster 289557@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@acsimpson I think the 6th chicane was at the NE corner of the bus turning park. This may have been removed when they blocked off the road access. You would have passed it on your venture north. You can see it here:</p> <p>[url=https://www.google.com/maps/place/Packard+Street,+South+Queensferry/@55.9830929,-3.381922,28m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m8!1m2!2m1!1sPackard+Way!3m4!1s0x4887cf8bbf74c8fd:0xe8de1b9c93447746!8m2!3d55.9827555!4d-3.3803315]null</p> <p>I note that someone has plonked a grit bin on the desire line circumventing chicane No.3 in a northward direction. Detour round chicane No.1 getting a bit squidgy after the rain and caused my rear wheel to spin and step out. </p>