http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Bikes faster than public transport in Edinburgh? en Wed, 27 May 2026 14:24:23 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-127075 Fri, 04 Oct 2013 13:38:51 +0000 Its_Me_Knees 127075@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Royal Infirmary to Silverknowes by a single bus journey involves ca. 50 minutes on a no. 8 (to Muirhouse, then a ten minute walk) or ca. 1h 10min on a 21 (then 10 min walk from DMains). Bike takes 10 mins to don my attire (don't ask) 35 mins riding then 15 mins shower at home. So total time is comparable to no.8 and quicker than the 21. And cheaper and healthier than both, of course. And at the end I smell of cheap shower gel, not diesel fumes... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126923 Thu, 03 Oct 2013 13:14:28 +0000 Dave 126923@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It would just tell you the timetable. Their API doesn't expose the actual location of the buses in realtime, which is what we require. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126919 Thu, 03 Oct 2013 12:50:42 +0000 allytibbitt 126919@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If anyone has the technical know-how to run the right analysis, it would appear that it might be possible to get access to the Bus Tracker API.</p> <p>Details here:</p> <p><a href="http://data.inf.ed.ac.uk/catalog/dataset/bustracker" rel="nofollow">http://data.inf.ed.ac.uk/catalog/dataset/bustracker</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126544 Tue, 01 Oct 2013 08:00:43 +0000 chdot 126544@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Perhaps try a 5. </p> <p>Does 'city centre' but not Princes Street and includes Nicholson Street and Morningside Road which are both 'main' roads and also 'shopping streets' which are due to be included in 20mph plans. </p> <p><a href="http://lothianbuses.com/timetables/ROUTE-MAP_130908.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://lothianbuses.com/timetables/ROUTE-MAP_130908.pdf</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126542 Tue, 01 Oct 2013 02:29:51 +0000 rosscbrown 126542@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I have time tomorrow (today) to do some more routes. I'm thinking that riding routes end-to-end is probably not the best strategy however I'm not sure where the loosely defined 'city centre' starts/ends. Is there a map to go along with the 20mph proposal?</p> <p>If I recall correctly, 'main' streets would also be excluded so I'll try and pick some of the more 'residential' routes to ride. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126540 Tue, 01 Oct 2013 00:01:54 +0000 kaputnik 126540@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/kaputniq/10028169325/"><img src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5456/10028169325_9da9149132.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/kaputniq/10028169325/">No. 4 over 20mph</a> by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/people/kaputniq/">the Magnificent Octopus</a>, on Flickr</p> <p>Fimm's No.4 ride out of town. Difference here is that it starts on the edge of the "centre" and heads out the way. However it's still spending most of its journey below 25mph and a lot of time slowing / stopping. At 6PM, this is a bit after worst of the traffic.</p> <p>I think CB's file was taking the data points too far apart (every 10s or so), which resulted in some hugely spurious readings, such as 55mph down Bruntsfield Place!</p> <p>Tulyar - help yourself to my 3 graphs if they're of use to you. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126531 Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:23:58 +0000 Tulyar 126531@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Brilliant data - any of this available in a simple to redact form - I'm off to Coach &amp; Bus Live on Wednesday.....and first seminar is on safe operations.</p> <p>Of course in Charlie Evans day the buses all had centre doors so the delays at bus stops waiting for folk to get off were eliminated.... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126417 Mon, 30 Sep 2013 00:10:26 +0000 skotl 126417@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I work in the West End and have the benefits of not only a parking space but my start / end times for work are completely in my control.</p> <p>When I lived in Leith it would take me 20 minutes to car or bike to the West End.</p> <p>Now that I live in Dalmeny, it's 40 minutes to bike in and 35 minutes back.<br /> Door to door, the train is 25 minutes.<br /> On a good day I can drive it in 20 minutes or less. On a not so good day, it's probably 40 minutes.</p> <p>So, all in all, commuting by bike is slower for me (and I need to factor in ~15 minutes for shower / change in the morning).<br /> But I cycle so that I can live to be 100, not to beat the commuters :D </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126318 Sat, 28 Sep 2013 17:56:03 +0000 cb 126318@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Dave, I've taken the liberty of emailing you a .gpx for a journey on the no. 11 into town today.</p> <p>Average speed was 6pm. There was a slowish jogger who was matching us for much of the journey. Really busy bus, lots of people getting on and off so lots of stopped time. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126316 Sat, 28 Sep 2013 15:20:14 +0000 fimm 126316@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Dave - done. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126308 Sat, 28 Sep 2013 11:33:27 +0000 Dave 126308@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'll take a copy if you don't mind - you can mail me at <a href="mailto:contact@mccraw.co.uk">contact@mccraw.co.uk</a></p> <p>(Spot who has hosting with an effective junk mail filter) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126299 Sat, 28 Sep 2013 08:33:25 +0000 fimm 126299@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, the file is on my computer (and has now been deleted from Strava).<br /> I'm happy to email it to anyone who wants it, just PM me. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126298 Sat, 28 Sep 2013 08:28:56 +0000 chdot 126298@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"OK, I have a .gpx file. Who wants it and how do I get it to you?<br /> I want to delete the ride from Strava asap"</p> <p>Presume you can download to a computer (then delete from Strava). </p> <p>Anyone wanting it can PM you if you are willing to email it(?) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126297 Sat, 28 Sep 2013 08:28:09 +0000 fimm 126297@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>OK, for Craiglockart Avenue hill, the bus is slower than 92 cyclists... and for the "Craiglockart to Fairmile killer" there are 6 cyclists faster (this segment does have a set of traffic lights in it...)</p> <p>Enough. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126296 Sat, 28 Sep 2013 08:23:38 +0000 fimm 126296@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>OK, I have a .gpx file. Who wants it and how do I get it to you?<br /> I want to delete the ride from Strava asap, I've played havoc with all the segments, oops. Next time I'll use my Garmin... there are 9 segments on the route, I have temporary QOMs in 7 of them, 2nd in one and 3rd in one. I'm going to have a quick look at how the bus compares with the men for some, at least. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126286 Sat, 28 Sep 2013 05:16:03 +0000 Tulyar 126286@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>John does that include the detail that you have to geo a slower and less convenient route than the A90? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126219 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 13:29:31 +0000 JohnS 126219@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Find it quite easy to beat the 5.00pm Stagecoach 55 from Queensferry Street out to Ferry Toll. It stop starts it's way out on Queensferry Road for bus stops and tail backs. It's usually disgorging passengers when I'm leaving Ferry Toll with the bike on the car so I'm at least 5 mins ahead. In winter it's even slower. Spookily in the morning it's definetly faster by bus. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126208 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 13:08:01 +0000 fimm 126208@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-24296653" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-24296653</a></p> <p>"<em> Police patrolling a new speed limit outside a Scottish Borders primary pulled over a school bus<br /> ... Traffic police set up a hand-held speed trap near the school gates on Monday. The first vehicle they pulled over for allegedly breaking the limit was a bus carrying pupils on its way to nearby Peebles High School.</em>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126195 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:53:59 +0000 Arellcat 126195@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Reinforces the utter spuriousness of Lothian Buses' "argument" about 20 zones.</em></p> <p>I think there's a missing datum in the analysis. Although we've shown that buses rarely exceed 20mph at all, and certainly don't achieve an average of 20mph, it's being measured in an environment in which other vehicles routinely exceed 20mph. I therefore think it's premature to suppose that a large scale reduction in all-vehicle speeds would have no effect on bus speeds, except in the areas where buses lanes are in operation and effective.</p> <p>What needs to be done next—and we're getting towards that—is to compare vehicle speeds on the same routes. Reducing average vehicle speeds would probably lead to greater road capacity, and this might either reduce transit times through efficiency or increase transit times through oversupply of vehicles. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126182 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 10:41:26 +0000 fimm 126182@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Oh yes, boyfriend can run to Leith in 35 minutes or something (he's a reasonably fast runner) while the bus takes an hour. </p> <p>IF (and it is a big if) I remember, I'll get some data from the number 4 bus this evening. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126178 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 10:27:10 +0000 Dave 126178@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>On the other hand, for speedy transport into town, nothing beats the 0755 from Curriehill. It gets to Haymarket in just 10 minutes.</em></p> <p>I quite often pass what I assume is the 8am run of the X44, but I haven't tried to take on the 7:30 as far as I know.</p> <p>Since I can get from Currie to Leith in 25 minutes, it might be a close run thing? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126171 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 09:34:39 +0000 Tulyar 126171@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just got this a bit late for last night's CILT dinner at which I could have fed the topic of how they viewed 20mph zones in to debate with a number of bus operators. It would though, be useful to have these journey plots as an anonymised set of data to put to the wider bus operating community without specifically pointing the finger at Lothian, and indeed some CCE subscribers might be able to input plots from other operators' services in Edinburgh and other towns.</p> <p>Next week I plan to attend Coach &amp; Bus live and they have a safety themed seminar, such detail might make an interesting topic BUT I'd rather it was a) a general detail and b) we had a few routes from First and Stagecoach (and Colin Craig - Citybus in Glasgow) in Glasgow &amp; Edinburgh. </p> <p>DM me of use my e-mail address, so I can see how to take this forward. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126169 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 08:56:05 +0000 AKen 126169@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I observed a variation on the "bikes faster than public transport" theme yesterday. I was on the bus heading southwards out of town over the bridges. As we had turned into North Bridge at the former GPO, I noticed a woman who was obviously out for a run and heading in the same direction. We passed and re-passed each other several times. Eventually, the bus made it to Cameron Toll, ahead of the runner - but only just.</p> <p>On the other hand, for speedy transport into town, nothing beats the 0755 from Curriehill. It gets to Haymarket in just 10 minutes. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126164 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 07:25:36 +0000 gembo 126164@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Kaputnik, you should let LB have the data and your analysis. They are a pretty reasonable bus compny nd might help them see the bigger picture mor accurately? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=5#post-126154 Fri, 27 Sep 2013 00:09:26 +0000 kaputnik 126154@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/kaputniq/9958005436/"><img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3677/9958005436_1a4b11a192.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/kaputniq/9958005436/">No. 26 over 20mph</a> by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/people/kaputniq/">the Magnificent Octopus</a>, on Flickr</p> <p>No. 26 London Road Journey speed profile remarkably similar to the No. 22 on Leith Walk. Reinforces the utter spuriousness of Lothian Buses' "argument" about 20 zones.</p> <p>Anyone else got some bus data for other city centre / residential area routes? Please don't make me go on a bus to collect my own! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=4#post-126059 Thu, 26 Sep 2013 12:29:54 +0000 AKen 126059@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Could someone who's actually ridden it recently and knows the true state of the tarmac put us out of our misery!</em></p> <p>Tarmac runs out not long after Hermiston but the surface is not too bad and is surfaced again at Ratho. Some patches will be muddy after wet weather but overall it's perfectly cyclable. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=4#post-126050 Thu, 26 Sep 2013 11:36:13 +0000 cb 126050@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Interesting 22 data gathering and analysis.</p> <p>I suspect that, even if a 20pmh zones were greatly increased, the 'fast' bits of the 22 route would largely remain at 30 or 40mph limits so the overall effect on the bus times would be next to nothing. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=4#post-126028 Thu, 26 Sep 2013 10:05:08 +0000 steveo 126028@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I got a lift in this morning so I'll run my GPX track of that through the visualiser. No quicker than my normal ride in though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=4#post-126020 Thu, 26 Sep 2013 09:44:47 +0000 kaputnik 126020@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yep would be great to build up 5 or 10 journey s of Leith Walk data on different services. I'm pretty sure they will follow the patters of the above 22 service.</p> <p>I actually need to look back at the data, I think I've overshot Lothian Road, and that the spike after 2 minutes of 20mph+ running is actually the start of the West Approach Road. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11160&page=4#post-125998 Thu, 26 Sep 2013 08:36:27 +0000 fimm 125998@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Given that Leith Walk is the road that is of particular interest right now, I guess more data from there would be useful?</p> <p>Interesting pictures, kaputnik. </p>