http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "VICTIM BLAMING FROM THE ROAD HAULAGE ASSOCIATION" en Mon, 01 Jun 2026 09:20:27 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183&page=2#post-125936 Wed, 25 Sep 2013 14:55:48 +0000 crowriver 125936@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Commercial bad parking / loading is a market failure...</em></p> <p>More a market regulation failure. Another legacy of Thatcherite deregulation, "cutting red tape for business", etc. The gift that keeps on giving. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183&page=2#post-125933 Wed, 25 Sep 2013 14:37:57 +0000 Dave 125933@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's an externality that we could resolve by charging the supermarkets to use the public realm to carry on their business - by making it chargeable and enforcing.</p> <p>You could easily come up with a more sensible system than the current set of parking regulations though. Assuming you don't want a full-time ban on lorries parking, you just price each hour of the day, setting the cost of delivering during rush hour to be prohibitively high.</p> <p>Put a massive fine on fraudulently failing to declare deliveries and then have the supermarkets report their own delivery schedules.</p> <p>Commercial bad parking / loading is a market failure... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183&page=2#post-125925 Wed, 25 Sep 2013 14:07:39 +0000 Arellcat 125925@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I think the requirements for many deliveries is increased by the shops being designed with the maximum of shelfspace and the minimum of storeroom space.</em></p> <p>But any manager of a shop, an office or a factory will make that kind of decision. Storage of foodstuffs, files or raw material requires floor space, and floor space is a) costing you money, and b) not being used to create profit. So you adopt just-in-time manufacturing (or selling) systems in order to maximise your throughput. That this is built upon the regularity and efficiency of all supporting systems, and driven by making money, is why it comes at the expense of any external competing factors.</p> <p>Such as bike lanes and parking restrictions. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183&page=2#post-125859 Wed, 25 Sep 2013 10:03:13 +0000 kaputnik 125859@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thoroughly comprehensive (as ever), Tulyar.</p> <p>I have thought in the past about the arrival of large numbers of "Local", "Metro", "Express" branded mini supermarkets in towns and high streets, because it seems that without exception, none of these places have any rear-access for deliveries, and everything comes in and out the front doors onto the main roads into articulated lorries (the smaller sort, with 1 or 2 axled trailers). I think the requirements for many deliveries is increased by the shops being designed with the maximum of shelfspace and the minimum of storeroom space. So deliveries have to constantly be arriving to keep the shelves looking stocked.</p> <p>The Tescos and Sainsburys of this world have found painted cycle lanes to be a wonderful place to park their delivery lorries. I'm sure the provision of segregated lanes outside their premises would cause the business model of using the public highway as a delivery bay and the pavement as a storage area to collapse. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183&page=2#post-125838 Wed, 25 Sep 2013 00:53:52 +0000 Tulyar 125838@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>At present various vehicles that operate off road on sites are exempt from having compulsory lifeguards (that is the original name for the equipment fitted to trams, old buses (like the B Type)) This generally means tipper trucks, skip trucks and concrete jiggers. </p> <p>Don't assume that because a truck has the livery of a big construction company, that it is owned and operated by them. Many companies keep a flexibility in their operations by operating in livery contracts indeed one of the biggest in livery operations is National Express Coaches, with Bruces Coaches of Salsburgh(IIRC?) operating a lot of the Glasgow-London services. The big difference here though is that PCV's have, by law to display the licensed operator's registered address in 1" lettering which can be read from the nearside kerb. No such requirement for LGV's though, but some do put clear details on their trucks anyway - most of the Supermarket and retail trucks will be operated by companies like Fowler-Welch, Kuhne &amp; Nagel, WH Malcolm, Stobart etc, most with high standards and contractual penalties for getting things wrong. But we drop down though the hierarchy as we get down to the Class 3 drivers and the rigid trucks, usually 4 axle for the maximum 20T payload (32T truck).</p> <p>Get a Class 1 licence and there is regular work on scheduled trunk, and retail delivery services, its clean and you often get a nice uniform as well. Construction contracts are sporadic and move around from site to site as muck needs to be shifted, stone and tarmac delivered. naturally the regular work gets the best drivers,and best operators managing them. To plug the gaps you move down to less well managed operations, and often drivers sourced through agencies. When Joao Lopes killed for the second time in 3 years, because he refused to wear his prescribed glasses when driving, it was not at all clear who he was driving for because of how he had been employed, and it is rare for the owner/operator of the truck - who after all has provided the driver with the means to do such harm, is identified in any reports on a crash. Yet one truck back 12-13 years ago killed 2 young women on bikes, and put a third one in a wheelchair - reportedly twice with the same driver. You might question who is challenging the fitness of the operator to have an operator's licence in such cases. </p> <p>A DfT study on trucks for moving building materials found that the 44T articulated tractor-trailer offered a 50% larger payload (29-30T)(ie 50% fewer trips = 50% less exposure to potential for crashing etc), did less damage to the roads, and cost less to operate than the 32T (maximum weight for a rigid) truck, but that the prime currency for site trucks was the 4-axle rigid - perhaps the worst sort of truck to run over you as the twin rear axles often pick up the victim between them like a giant mincing machine. </p> <p>On incredibly lucky lady on London was knocked off by a taxi going up on the nearside of such a truck and finished up trapped in between the rear wheels. Fortunately the truck driver noticed the crash and stopped before any major harm was done. </p> <p>Sally, although you do see a few large articulated trucks in the centre of the city there are very few in number. No company is going to have around £300,000 worth of equipment designed to run at 80Kph on the main trunk routes, with expensive and limited driver's time crawling around the city centre. Those sorts of loads are generally transferred to smaller vehicles or delivered directly at night or VERY early in the morning - imagine leaving the distribution centres (Bathgate, Bellshill etc) around 23.00 and a 9-10 hour driver's shift out and back, using the roads when they are so empty that you can drive 50 miles and never catch up with or be passed by another vehicle. </p> <p>The main 'big truck' traffic on city streets is that associated with construction. machines are digging holes and there is nowhere to simply pile up the stuff (and it costs a lot more to put it down and pick it up again later) On one big city centre site in London I photographed a queue of at least 30 trucks from a total of 50 which were required to move around 3000T per day from the hole to a tipping location over 30 miles away around 150 loads leaving the site every day - for about 2 months. One big concrete pour required 30 trucks running continuously with 3 shifts of drivers for a long weekend.</p> <p>Because the site requirements are so transient it is far too difficult and expensive to set up a rail siding or river wharf, or a portable concrete plant, and so the stuff simply goes on the road. For some cities there may be management regimes, as those which were run for the 2012 Olympics. With early-retired soldiers readily available the trucks were marshalled at holding points and dispatched to strict schedules to manage the impact on London's streets, and some materials were sent to the site by barge (1 canal barge = 4 trucks) (1 train = 50-75 trucks) but such opportunities need to be well planned in order to deliver the alternatives effectively. </p> <p>Finally a word for the LCC 'safer truck' design - such trucks can be built now - like early low floor buses they have a price premium (which is perhaps why Glasgow seems to still be buying the high cabs for their refuse trucks - with the inherent danger of a lack of direct vision for people close to the side and front of the truck). Legislation went in in 1999 to make every new bus a low floor bus, and meet a target to have all buses in daily service as low floor accessible vehicles by 2020. We could in small ways deliver this through all Councils requiring their new refuse trucks and other LGV's to have low 'eye-level' driving positions unless a valid case can be made otherwise. I think that Edinburgh is already moving this way having seen some recently purchased street sweeper trucks with low level walk-in cabs. Let's see of this move can gain inertia and see low level walk-in as the order of the day. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183&page=2#post-125827 Tue, 24 Sep 2013 21:45:35 +0000 neddie 125827@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I saw an unliveried waste tipper lorry today with NO side skirts. It was by no means an old beaten up lorry - it looked a fairly recent model.</p> <p>Sorry, couldn't get any pics.</p> <p>I cannot believe they let such things on the roads in a city. I mean there was NOTHING to stop a cyclist going under the wheels. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125801 Tue, 24 Sep 2013 15:54:39 +0000 algo 125801@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>pointless and pretty terrifying when they come that close.</p> <p>By contrast I had a very good interaction with an HGV today turning left from Ponton Street onto Fountainbridge. I stopped behind as he was indicating and waved to let him know I wasn't going to do anything daft - then a bit further on as I was able to use the cycle lane on the left I tentatively pulled up beside him at the lights as he wasn't indicating and he gave me the thumbs up to recognise he knew where I was, and would set off in front of him. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125740 Tue, 24 Sep 2013 10:57:12 +0000 kaputnik 125740@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>You can also see he already has the brakes on as he passes and pulls across. He'd been behind me since the junction with Ardmillan Terrace but only managed to catch me where the road climbs slightly just before Shandon Place. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125716 Tue, 24 Sep 2013 06:56:56 +0000 gembo 125716@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes you can clearly see them where you have circled on that photo. Very nice </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125713 Tue, 24 Sep 2013 00:16:58 +0000 kaputnik 125713@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Very much appreciated the "cyclists keep back" stickers as this Jewson's driver passed and cut across me where the road begins to narrow (bus lane on the right) just so he could get to the red light infront of me.</p> <p><img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3710/9905843314_bb8a1f9c75.jpg"></p> <p>The stickers were very small, but plainly legible as he rolled past a foot away from me, causing me to slow down as he drifted across without indicating. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125712 Tue, 24 Sep 2013 00:04:42 +0000 splitshift 125712@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot, yep most are still paid a bonus based on number of loads,@ eddie_h, not sure of type approval regs but assume that a max distance between "low" parts of vehicle should be covered by crash bars,@ o_O, I refer to my previous comments m, lord, tippers and construction involved drivers ! Thing with plant operators, they need a qualified driver occasionally to drive a full 44 tonne wagon,(low loader), but if the driver can also(primary job ) operate an off road exempt from European driving hours vehicle , then two for the very low price of one !<br /> Oh and when I am on a roll, the tipper in your pic is not covered properly, the sheet is way too high, and negates any effect it should ! NWH.........tippers, old school, stay well away from them !I think they are main contractors involved with the tram project.....<br /> another thread entirely ?<br /> Back to work Wednesday, the A9 becons, oh dear ill be chastised for going too slow....... it seems I cant please anyone , any of the time !oh and bikes should all have a tachograph thingy to record RLJ and riding on pavements etc<br /> (tounge reasonably firmly in cheek ! )<br /> as for ignored correspondence, watch this space, I have the addy of some serious FTA,RHA, and police Scotland people !<br /> Scott<br /> oops forgot to mention , the wheels/tyres on the tipper are filthy, its also an offence to permit , or cause a vehicle to travel on the highway while causing dirt, mud or muck....<br /> I personally got said company of a site for not using wheel wash systems ! contact your local building contract dept of council, it actually works ! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125711 Mon, 23 Sep 2013 23:17:43 +0000 minus six 125711@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My nightmare close call memories..</p> <p>Take a bow:</p> <p>Robert Purvis plant hire</p> <p>and </p> <p>Grant Construction tippers</p> <p>all correspondence ignored, natch </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125709 Mon, 23 Sep 2013 22:19:21 +0000 chdot 125709@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>All of them - plus the idea (maybe no longer true) that such types of lorries have drivers paid per trip. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125707 Mon, 23 Sep 2013 22:11:08 +0000 neddie 125707@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot The tipper lorry you show seems to have protective side skirts, which should make it more difficult for a cyclist to go under the wheels (you could still get 'hooked' though)</p> <p>I thought the problem* with tipper lorries was that they were exempt from having side skirts as they needed the ground clearance on building sites, and bits of plastic/steel that could get clagged up with mud would be 'undesirable'...</p> <p>* As well as they fact they are agile &amp; fast with limited vision </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125686 Mon, 23 Sep 2013 16:57:26 +0000 Dunny 125686@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Any safety programme which relies on all parties behaving 100% correctly 100% of the time is going to end in tears. Separating bikes and trucks as much as possible - in time or in space - has got to be a better bet.</em></p> <p>Agree 100%, although personally I have never had any kind of safety scare with an HGV, mainly because I give acres of room and tend not to filter past whether apparently safe or not. I'm afraid of them basically. But I'm alive. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125684 Mon, 23 Sep 2013 16:53:59 +0000 kaputnik 125684@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>London also has a <em>lot</em> of construction megaprojects going on (things like the Shard, Crossrail, etc.) where everything comes in and leaves by tipper trucks, which are expressly banned by the authorities from night time operation, meaning they all pile in to London first thing and back out again last thing (i.e. rush hour) so that work can get going on sites.</p> <p>I have bad memories of NWH (Neil Williams Haulage?) tipper lorries going back and forward between the quarries at Ratho when I lived up there and always steer well clear of them when I see them in town. The ones returning to the quarry were the worst as they are unladen and can get up to some speed without 10 tonnes of rocks in the back. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125681 Mon, 23 Sep 2013 16:45:55 +0000 sallyhinch 125681@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The problem with HGVs vs Cyclists is disproportionately a London thing where the big lorries are banned overnight so tend to pile into London first thing, just as the rush hour gets going. Removing the overnight ban and replacing it with a peak hours ban would probably do a lot more to make cyclists safer than any amount of lecturing of cyclists OR drivers. </p> <p>Any safety programme which relies on all parties behaving 100% correctly 100% of the time is going to end in tears. Separating bikes and trucks as much as possible - in time or in space - has got to be a better bet. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125680 Mon, 23 Sep 2013 16:19:35 +0000 splitshift 125680@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>small consolation indeed, I restate, in no way am I trying to lessen the actions or magnitude of accidents.<br /> Trucking nowadays is not really the way it used to be, most of the trucks on the road are now run bu large, mainly responsible companies, it isn't really a good way to make money, small or mid size companies cant really compete, my companies vehicles, trailers and units are on a six week service schedule, run by the vehicle manufacturers.I not only have to perform a legal, duty of care pre operational check, I need to perform a post journey check as well.I am not, and the CPC training will inform every driver that unless they are qualified, they cannot even change a bulb , or blow up a tyre.The transport industry has indeed been guilty of some....cavalier attitudes but I honestly think that this is changing.Some branches, and the photo of a nice tipper is an example,still are run by "cowboys" but surely these exist in every walk of life.<br /> I am in no way trying to defend these people, but please, not all cyclists are rljers, in the same way not all LGV operators are cowboys.<br /> All defects are indeed the responsibility of the driver, but the RTA states it is an offence to cause or permit an offence to be committed , hence if a driver informs his employer of an illegality, then the manager is also liable, which is changing attitudes of some less than reputable managers and employers.<br /> Scott,<br /> be safe no matter what you use ! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125673 Mon, 23 Sep 2013 14:54:37 +0000 Dave 125673@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Surely we all have a duty to look after each other, not just have a go at the biggest targets.</em></p> <p>I know where you're coming from, but at the end of the day, more than 50% of people being killed are at the hands of truck drivers who make up just 5% of vehicle movements. </p> <p>As ordinary members of the public, you'd expect cyclists to fall short of perfection, but can't we expect more of professionals? I mean, it's being reported that virtually 100% of HGVs found not to be road legal in police checks (I'm not sure if that's all the responsibility of the driver - might be the firm? Small consolation to the dead though). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125671 Mon, 23 Sep 2013 14:44:01 +0000 Arellcat 125671@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>if in doubt STOP</em> (or slow down)<em> and make an additional check</em></p> <p>Is the correct answer for just about every situation while using the road. Unfortunately everyone's journey is always more important than everyone else's. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125669 Mon, 23 Sep 2013 14:36:48 +0000 splitshift 125669@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>highway code,<br /> introduction<br /> The most vulnerable road users are pedestrians , particularly children,older,or disabled people, cyclists, motorcyclists and horse riders. It is important that ALL road users are aware of the code and are considerate towards each other.This applies to pedestrians as much as to drivers and riders.</p> <p>Surely we all have a duty to look after each other, not just have a go at the biggest targets. We all know that hgv, are inherently problematic when in the same area as cyclists etc, but lets not forget that cyclists arnt perfect either ! I know of the horrendous accidents that have happened, but not all hgv drivers are cowboys. Most truck drivers are only doing it for money, its a horrible dirty tiring way to earn a living, and some of us actually cycle , lots !Quoting vosa and other regulations are great, but am sure that there are rules and regulations relating cycle use on the public highway!<br /> hgv without crash bars are generally , only logging vehicles, skeletal container trailers, which can alter length, or other special type approved vehicles. Military have various other regs, but I would imagine, that when in the public ownership they should revert back to civilian regs.<br /> We all need to use our roads , and there will always be idiots and people who god forbid make mistakes, and in no way am I disregarding terrible accidents,even cyclists !<br /> lets just all agree to be a bit more considerate, both ways and take care !<br /> Scott </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125638 Mon, 23 Sep 2013 10:23:42 +0000 fimm 125638@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The vehicle may be ex-military, but that doesn't mean the driver (of the one I saw) was! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125637 Mon, 23 Sep 2013 10:19:34 +0000 AKen 125637@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>They aren't. They learn to drive in a week and are the worst drivers I have ever seen. And that is really saying something.</em></p> <p>The biggest causes of non-combat deaths for soldiers in Iraq are suicide and traffic accidents, together accounting for over 700 deaths in US forces (don't know about UK figures).</p> <p>Military veterans were 75% more likely to be involved in a fatal road accident after returning to the US.</p> <p><a href="http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-05-05/national/39048053_1_motor-vehicle-crashes-two-wars" rel="nofollow">http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-05-05/national/39048053_1_motor-vehicle-crashes-two-wars</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125632 Mon, 23 Sep 2013 10:02:04 +0000 chdot 125632@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just a reminder -</p> <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/9739610797/"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7451/9739610797_b4b193115d.jpg"></a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125621 Mon, 23 Sep 2013 09:20:08 +0000 Min 125621@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Military drivers may well be well trained</em></p> <p>They aren't. They learn to drive in a week and are the worst drivers I have ever seen. And that is really saying something. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125619 Mon, 23 Sep 2013 09:15:51 +0000 Darkerside 125619@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Potentially a MAN 6 tonne truck or similar. Built for high ground clearance, which is clearly also the same thing as person-chomping ability... Used lots by the MoD, so old ones are presumably pretty cheap to pick up by outdoors-y type companies.</p> <p>Generally give them a wide berth. Military drivers may well be well trained, but they're not behind the wheel all the time like a 'normal' lorry driver. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125618 Mon, 23 Sep 2013 08:55:29 +0000 fimm 125618@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"lifeguards fitted to close off the areas under the truck" </em><br /> does anyone know the law about these? I was passed by a vehicle belonging to <a href="http://www.wildfoxevents.com/">Wild Fox Events</a> the driver of which wasn't being quite as considerate as I would have liked - just running a bit close, really. The thing that I really didn't like was this vehicle was a perfect cyclist killing machine - it had big high wheels with lots and lots of space underneath it and I felt it would be quite easy to go underneath, there was nothing to stop you. I think it was some kind of ex-military vehicle. I pulled a few agressive filtering moves to keep away from it. No doubt the thing was legal, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125613 Mon, 23 Sep 2013 03:14:35 +0000 Tulyar 125613@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well let's respond with a few bits of advice for truck drivers then.</p> <p>1) Don't partially overtake a cyclists and then slow down &amp; pull in or turn left. If in doubt DO NOT attempt to overtake by wait behind the cyclist unless invited to pass </p> <p>2) When you need space to turn it's your responsibility to signal this clearly and your responsibility to make sure other road users are aware of your exaggerated course - if in doubt STOP and make an additional check. When manoeuvring in severely restricted spaces you should use one or more banksmen to ensure other road users are clearly aware of your movements and make you aware of the traffic in the areas of road which 'disappear' from view when making a tight turn. </p> <p>3) Observe ASL road markings, Mandatory cycle lanes and do not attempt to enter advisory cycle lanes when there are cyclists using them. Observe speed limits relating to your class on vehicle (HGV's widely fail to observe speed limits) and traffic signals showing a stop aspect (red, amber &amp; red with amber)</p> <p>4) Do not use mobile phones, CB radios, audio equipment at high volume and drive with the driver's window fully closed. The lack of direct vision from the cab of your truck makes the use of your hearing even more vital than for a smaller vehicle with fewer 'blind spots' *</p> <p>5) Ensure all the mirrors which compensate for the poor design of your truck and its blind spots, and all lifeguards fitted to close off the areas under the truck are securely fitted and correctly adjusted to comply with the law (remembering that there is a £100 penalty and 3 points for every item which fails to comply up to a maximum of 3 items in a VOSA or Police check and the issue of a PG9 (immediate) for a vehicle with multiple or serious failures) </p> <p>6) make sure your presence does not come as a surprise or threat to cyclists by NOT passing close and at speed, closing up rapidly behind, and following at a distance where you will be unable to stop if the cyclist does. Remember here that section 170 and your liability for injury or damage to property applies if the cyclist is brought off their bike by your backwash, and your failure to stop in such circumstances is an offence.</p> <p>* I had a truck pull out from a turning on the tight side of a road right in front of me despite shouting and making a racket when I saw that the driver was not looking in my direction at all. to avoid a collision I mounted the footway and stopped in front of the truck. All his windows were closed and the radio was on.</p> <p>s.170 RTA 1988 and equivalent in R(Sc)A When the presence of a motor vehicle causes damage or injury then the driver has to provide details (ie the basics of presumed liability are already in place and have been since 1903 Motor Car Act required this and third party liability to be covered, it is just the enforcement that we fail to deliver on). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125570 Sat, 21 Sep 2013 19:26:02 +0000 Snowy 125570@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'll agree to mandatory bright yellow cycling clothing for 'safety' reasons, when all cars are by law painted bright yellow for the same reason. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11183#post-125557 Sat, 21 Sep 2013 14:27:14 +0000 chdot 125557@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>RHA supported NWC. </p>