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<title>CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum &#187; Topic: Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</link>
<description>CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum &#187; Topic: Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out</description>
<language>en</language>
<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2026 05:24:08 +0000</pubDate>

<item>
<title>kaputnik on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286&amp;page=2#post-127320</link>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Oct 2013 12:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>kaputnik</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127320@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;&#60;a href=&#34;http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/crime-rising-as-police-stations-to-be-closed-1-3129325&#34;&#62;&#60;br /&#62;
Crime rising as police stations to be closed&#60;br /&#62;
&#60;/a&#62;&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;&#60;em&#62;There has been a 54 per cent surge in housebreakings in the Portobello/Craigmallar ward. &#60;/em&#62;
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>Cyclingmollie on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286&amp;page=2#post-127309</link>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Oct 2013 11:48:07 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Cyclingmollie</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127309@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;That's a crappy thing to have happened. If they did ride off on them then there is a chance that they are still somewhere local and not heading in a van to England for sale. Unless they are super-dim they will also have realised that they had found the best they were going to get.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>kaputnik on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286&amp;page=2#post-127307</link>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Oct 2013 11:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>kaputnik</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127307@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;&#60;a href=&#34;http://www.maplin.co.uk/buy-cctv-and-security/security-systems/shed-and-internal-alarms&#34;&#62;Maplin&#60;/a&#62; have shed/garage alarm kits starting at £20 for simple setable door contact system, broken beam alarm or PIR motion detector.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;If you wanted to use a range of above, it would be worth having not to set 3 different keypads so you could look at an integrated kit.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>Wilmington&#039;s Cow on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286&amp;page=2#post-127306</link>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Oct 2013 11:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Wilmington&#039;s Cow</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127306@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;There is actually a motion detector light on the front of the garage - hasn't deterred them in the slightest :(&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;Wireless garage motion detector sounds good though.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;Chatting to the cop (singular) who came out, it's clear the moved to a single force has resulted in some... issues...
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>kaputnik on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286&amp;page=2#post-127299</link>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Oct 2013 11:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>kaputnik</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127299@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Rubbish, rubbish thing to happen, WC. Hope Police Scotland can buck their rather poor current performance in sorting out burglaries and get it back for you.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;There are various wireless motion detectors you could install in your garage for occassions when you are not there.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;Security lighting on a motion sensor above the door would also be useful.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;Home CCTV systems are very cheap now, again can be wireless, discreet and easy to install.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>Coxy on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286&amp;page=2#post-127298</link>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Oct 2013 11:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Coxy</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127298@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Yep - Porty here too. &#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;Spent last night replacing a BB and chain - but then thought it best to photograph and record the serial numbers of the family bikes. I think I've done that in the past, but wanted to make sure.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;I've an up-and-over garage door which was the easy-acces the theives had last time. Never mind about locks, it's quite easy to just physically open the door without having to turn the handle, if you know how. Not that I'm going to say on here, but if you are interested, PM me. Obviously so that you can take precautions, not start a life of crime.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;My garage door isn't used, so now it's bolted into the concrete floor. Ped door has a big mortice lock and hinge bolts. Windows are screwed and painted shut. Ground anchor inside with F.O chain and padlock.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;'Mon then!
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>paolobr on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127294</link>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Oct 2013 10:31:47 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>paolobr</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127294@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;@WC, that is crap.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;@Baldcyclist - per &#34;well nothing ever happens here&#34; - just gone downstairs to my locked storage cupboard, and put my large Kryptoflex cable through the two bikes I store there. Also with spate of thefts in Porty (threads passim), I guess I'm getting a bit more twitchy (I live near Seafield).
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>Baldcyclist on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127288</link>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Oct 2013 09:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Baldcyclist</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127288@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Makes you think about security. My commuter more or less lives in the car week in week out, easy target. I've also been lulled into the &#34;well nothing ever happens here&#34; sense of security.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;Must also buy a big lock for the 'nice' bike, and lock it to it's (wall mounted/bolted)  stand. It only goes out a dozen times a year, so wouldn't be a hassle to lock/unlock.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>Wilmington&#039;s Cow on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127281</link>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Oct 2013 08:59:11 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Wilmington&#039;s Cow</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127281@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;&#34;&#60;em&#62;Police suggested backing a car up to the door to keep it from opening which is not always practical&#60;/em&#62;&#34;&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;Funnily enough this is what I've started doing. And putting two tower bolts on the inside - I'm going to start taking the bikes in and out the back door and round the back of the house, out the side gate. It's not much added hassle, but saves the front door being open to view, and means I can lean rattly heavy stuff against the door if, somehow, they'd managed to get it open. All adds to the hassle factor for a thief, plus more chance of making a noise that will wake us.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;But as Coxy says, a little after-the-horse-has-bolted. I've got a couple of steel loops in the floor of the garage, that I installed 5 years ago precisely to guard against this, but over the years of there simply never being anything like this in our street I'd got complacent.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;More and more hacked off about it all. Mel suggested getting a posse to ride along Hay Drive :D
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>531 on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127277</link>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Oct 2013 02:25:11 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>531</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127277@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;We have had a wave of garage thefts, especially bikes, on the south side during the past year.  I had a bike stolen as have several other people on my street.  They had used a screwdriver to turn the lock - apparently standard garage locks are very poorly made and insecure.   Police suggested backing a car up to the door to keep it from opening which is not always practical.   I installed one of these: &#34;Enfield Garage Door Bolt Locks&#34; purchased from ebay (around £30).  It is a deadbolt that you install on the interior of the door on one or both sides, openable by key from either interior or exterior.    Not completely trivial as a diy job - took about 2 hours working slowly to get one installed, including drilling the steel door.    It is not very noticeable and I feel a lot safer.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>Coxy on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127276</link>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Oct 2013 00:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Coxy</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127276@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Oh no! Will keep 'em peeled. Hopefully they'll turn up. Perhaps you can contact the East Team - I'm sure they come across lots of abandoned bikes.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;I know what it's like, especially galling when it involves custom/ handbuilt stuff. I lost 3 pairs of hand-built wheels (on 3 bikes) when I got done a few years ago.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;Stable door/horse bolted, but this looks good for shed security:&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;&#60;a href=&#34;http://securityforbikes.com/shed-shackle.php&#34; rel=&#34;nofollow&#34;&#62;http://securityforbikes.com/shed-shackle.php&#60;/a&#62;&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;In fact, the above company are really good for security chains as good as Almax, et al, but not quite as expensive.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>Snowy on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127275</link>
<pubDate>Sun, 06 Oct 2013 21:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Snowy</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127275@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Just caught up on this - really sorry to hear. Keeping eyes peeled.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>LaidBack on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127226</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 21:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>LaidBack</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127226@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Can put up pics on LB and Bike Works... sorry to hear as know how much effort it takes to get these things sorted.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>sg37409 on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127225</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 20:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>sg37409</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127225@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Nae luck man. Hope you get them back unscathed.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>riffian on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127224</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 19:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>riffian</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127224@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;That's really bad news, WC. I'm local to you so will keep a keen eye out. Got me thinking about ground anchor given the poor state of my garage doors...
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>Wilmington&#039;s Cow on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127223</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 19:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Wilmington&#039;s Cow</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127223@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Not really so random - car parked on the driveway with bike carriers on the roof. And seems that it really is (from the police) a common occurrence at the moment. Nick a bike, ride around a bit, nick another one and dump the old one. Apparently last night there was another bike from 'round the corner' stolen from a garage as well.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;And seems like one police prediction has come true - thanks for the PM custard.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>gdm on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127222</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 19:00:16 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>gdm</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127222@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Having seen and admired the Cotic at PY I offer my sincere commiserations.  What a pain.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;Is there any chance the thieves might have seen you going in to the garage with one of the bikes, or have any immediate neighbours also had garages broken into but with nothing stolen?  It just seems more than a bit of good luck on their part to have just picked one at random and found a couple of replacements for the ones previously pinched.  Not trying to make you paranoid of course!
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
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<title>custard on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127218</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 18:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>custard</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127218@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Pm'd
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>Morningsider on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127206</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 12:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Morningsider</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127206@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Really sorry to hear this WC - a break-in can leave you quite shaken.  It seems very odd, can't really imagine it was just a couple of kids messing around, as breaking into a garage is a step up from general neddishness.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>weiss on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127205</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 12:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>weiss</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127205@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Unfortunately, it looks like the police are more interested in finding out who damaged a statue of a dog, than finding your bikes, I'm afraid.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>ARobComp on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127203</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 11:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>ARobComp</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127203@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Sorry to hear it WC. Have shared on FB and on twitter.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>amir on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127202</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 11:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>amir</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127202@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Not good at all. Hope they are fine.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;When you get around to thinking about future security, if you have a concrete floor, ground anchors are pretty easy to fit. Together with a good lock, that will give you a good defence against crims and insurance companies.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>minus six on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127201</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 10:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>minus six</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127201@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Commiserations, WC.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;The neds in question might see this as an exciting Grand Theft Auto escapade, ditching bikes and on to the next ones, but to break into the garage ups the stakes and I hope they are apprehended pronto, and get their day in court. &#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;Is it a standard up and over garage lock?  I have one of them, might need to consider an anchor upgrade if they are that easy to manipulate.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>Baldcyclist on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127197</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 09:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Baldcyclist</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127197@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;I'll refrain from comment, because the only words I can think of at the moment involve cursing.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;Hope you get them back soon.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
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<title>Instography on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127194</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 09:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Instography</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127194@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Buggrit. That's very crappy. And a slightly weird way to be neddish. Let me know if there's anything I can help you out with while you get bikes sorted. I can do whole bikes or parts for tall men but not so good on the women's bike front.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>EddieD on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127193</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 09:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>EddieD</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127193@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Damn - that's rough.  I hope you do get good news soon. I always was a wee bit laissez-faire about the security on my bent thinking &#34;it's really traceable, no-one will nick that&#34; - I'll have to adjust my thinking.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;And my insurance.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>DaveC on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127192</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 09:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>DaveC</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127192@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Sorry to read this WC! I hope you get this all resolved very quickly. :0 (
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>crowriver on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127190</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 09:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>crowriver</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127190@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;Rotten luck. Really bad.&#60;br /&#62;
Hope you get them back.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>Wilmington&#039;s Cow on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127188</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 09:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Wilmington&#039;s Cow</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127188@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;I guess bikes can be replaced, but knowing the effort I put into that Cotic it's quite hard to take. Added to that is just the impact on the day and after.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;We were supposed to be going on an organised fungi foray today, which is why I was up at 6.30am, but obviously had to can that to wait on the police and then make the garage secure again; then there will be the inevitable hassle of sorting out the home insurance (while wondering if they'll just do the same with our bikes and dump them somewhere when they nick another couple).&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;It's basically bike joyriding, by the looks of it, and seems to be a pattern. So as chdot says, probably just the same couple of kids/neds/gits going round and doing it for kicks and nothing else. Because they can.
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
</item>
<item>
<title>gembo on "Two bikes stolen from my garage, please keep an eye out"</title>
<link>http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11286#post-127187</link>
<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 09:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
<dc:creator>gembo</dc:creator>
<guid isPermaLink="false">127187@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/</guid>
<description>&#60;p&#62;All bad, but especially the one you designed and built yourself.  The thing that annoys most when this happens is the loss of your own time, energy, ingenuity, style, flair, élan etc for a couple of morons to have a laugh for a moment.&#60;/p&#62;
&#60;p&#62;Leaving the other two is quite interesting
&#60;/p&#62;</description>
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