http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Utterly Disgusted at this lawyers final comment en Mon, 18 May 2026 23:40:51 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11299#post-130518 Tue, 29 Oct 2013 20:46:46 +0000 Charterhall 130518@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Appalling. Another one. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11299#post-130445 Tue, 29 Oct 2013 11:59:48 +0000 amir 130445@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From YACF:</p> <p>"I think that it should have been arranged for the Judge, counsels, and each member of the jury in turn to stand in the road while a car drives past within two feet at 50-60mph." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11299#post-130441 Tue, 29 Oct 2013 11:50:10 +0000 Darkerside 130441@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'd deliberately been avoiding this thread as the bile within that lawyer's closing statement was so hideous. However, I'm glad I read Denisa's parents' letter - everyone deserves to be more than just a death, and they give the human side that the British media is so desparate to overlook in its sanitising of car crashes.</p> <p>I've gathered my thoughts on the entire sorry trial business here:</p> <p><a href="http://www.darkerside.org/2013/10/helen-measures-and-the-death-of-denisa/" rel="nofollow">http://www.darkerside.org/2013/10/helen-measures-and-the-death-of-denisa/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11299#post-130434 Tue, 29 Oct 2013 10:47:02 +0000 PS 130434@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The use of character witnesses lays bare the principal defence tactic for getting people off charges arising from killing people with their cars - never mind the facts or how careless the driving might have been, just tell the jury it could happen to anyone. There but for the grace of God and all that. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11299#post-130432 Tue, 29 Oct 2013 10:13:02 +0000 i 130432@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"for being in the wrong place at the wrong time"</p> <p>You mean for being in the right place at the wrong time? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11299#post-130421 Tue, 29 Oct 2013 09:35:31 +0000 Dave 130421@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Some of the details make me wonder about the integrity of the trial process.</p> <p>You have a driver who admits going into the oncoming lane and hitting someone coming the other way, who dies. Given the driver's own admission, as a juror I can't imagine acquitting.</p> <p>Then you discover that the jury didn't hear from anyone on behalf of the victim, or even anyone acting in the capacity of a road expert on their behalf, but was given an amazing *twelve* undoubtedly glowing character references for the accused just before considering their verdict.</p> <p>Combined with a summing up speech that placed the blame the victim for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, was the trial process systemically biased towards acquittal? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11299#post-130358 Mon, 28 Oct 2013 15:18:21 +0000 minus six 130358@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"The world seems to be upside down" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11299#post-130357 Mon, 28 Oct 2013 14:58:46 +0000 algo 130357@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This is incredibly sad - I hadn't seen this before. This appears to be a complete travesty, and along with the McCourt judgement shows how the prejudice that cyclists are solely responsible for their own safety seems to pervade every level of the legal system. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11299#post-130356 Mon, 28 Oct 2013 14:55:13 +0000 amir 130356@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That's so sad. I ashamed of the justice system in this country. We also need the licencing system to fully reflect the hazards and responsibility of driving. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11299#post-130354 Mon, 28 Oct 2013 14:52:30 +0000 paul.mag 130354@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>what a moving letter and a shocking indictment on the way our legal system views cyclists being killed by motorists </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11299#post-130350 Mon, 28 Oct 2013 14:37:51 +0000 ARobComp 130350@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Open letter from the parents of the cyclist which makes a lot of interesting accusations.<br /> 1) They were at no point allowed to talk about the experience of the cyclist daughter (she WAS experienced)<br /> 2) The moral character of the defendant seemed to be more important than facts<br /> 3) passengers were not called as witnesses.</p> <p>Another evident travesty. </p> <p><a href="http://www.henleystandard.co.uk/news/news.php?id=1363185" rel="nofollow">http://www.henleystandard.co.uk/news/news.php?id=1363185</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11299#post-127656 Wed, 09 Oct 2013 11:24:52 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 127656@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The news report is, for once, pretty detailed on the descriptions of what happened. Or at least the alternative versions. Maybe there <em>was</em> enough space, and it's a tragic accident that the girl fell straight in front of the car. Maybe the cyclist's explanation of only having two feet of space was correct. I guess we'll never really know. Though some things give indications. Primarily the description of what might have caused the girl to fall (i.e. that her boyfriend had braked and moved, and their wheels had touched, throwing her off - now would he have braked and moved if he felt comfortable that there was space for the car?).</p> <p>But what really gets me annoyed about this (over and above the crass comments of the lawyer, for once I'm not going to defend someone as 'just doing his job', his comments are ridiculous in the extreme, placing blame on an entirely innocent party who, let's face it, probably already feels devastated about this) are two commetns from the driver.</p> <p>Firstly, she says that she was driving with due care and attention; but also says that she didn't see the cyclists coming the other way, and didn't know where they'd come from. Now if you're driving with due care and attention I would have thought you'd spot a couple of cyclists coming the other way surely?</p> <p>And secondly, she states there was enough space to complete the overtake; but also states that if she'd seen the cyclists she wouldn't have tried the overtake. Erm, if there was enough space then why would you not attempt the overtake if you'd seen the cyclists?</p> <p>Those two items, for me, cast serious doubt on the testimony. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11299#post-127635 Wed, 09 Oct 2013 10:24:57 +0000 Cyclingmollie 127635@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That's so bad on so many levels. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11299#post-127601 Wed, 09 Oct 2013 07:27:46 +0000 Min 127601@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Dr Measures, a mother-of-four, had been returning from a trip to <strong>Toad Hall</strong> garden centre</em></p> <p>Is this whole article some sort of joke? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11299#post-127597 Tue, 08 Oct 2013 23:55:51 +0000 Uberuce 127597@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>We're in the business of <strong>putting</strong> women on bikes? I suppose that makes sense; their ovaries would overheat if they just decided to do it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11299#post-127594 Tue, 08 Oct 2013 23:46:29 +0000 ARobComp 127594@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yep. I'm still surprised its not bigger news. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11299#post-127408 Mon, 07 Oct 2013 23:34:41 +0000 Stickman 127408@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That beggars belief.</p> <p>I know lawyers are "just doing their job" but it seems a lot of them leave their humanity at the door when they start work. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11299#post-127407 Mon, 07 Oct 2013 23:04:51 +0000 ARobComp 127407@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Woman overtakes one set of cyclists failing to see other cyclists coming. The rear cyclist for whatever reason loses control and falls and dies. Henley Standard report fairly thorough <a href="http://www.henleystandard.co.uk/news/news.php?id=1354657" rel="nofollow">http://www.henleystandard.co.uk/news/news.php?id=1354657</a><br /> Woman found not guilty.<br /> Just the final statement is absolutely disgusting. </p> <p>"Summing up, Mr Fielding said: “Ben Pontin said it was a stupid decision to overtake. It was nowhere near as stupid as Mr Pontin’s decision to put Denisa Perinova on that bike in the first place. </p> <p>“He ought not to have been so reckless with the life of his young girlfriend and he failed with terrible consequences.” </p>