http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Good advice on the tram website en Sun, 17 May 2026 13:53:34 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11350#post-128206 Mon, 14 Oct 2013 12:14:01 +0000 Arellcat 128206@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>We can agree to differ but I think the get off and push advice is actually common sense and possibly from cycle craft.</em></p> <p>Not all that much from John Franklin in his 1997 edition, mostly relating to level crossings. And to be honest most, of us already know this advice:</p> <p>"<br /> Crossing railway of tram tracks can be particularly hazardous, especially on a cycle with narrow tyres. The smoothness of the rails is in marked contrast to that of a road and can easily cause a spill, whilst the road over a crossing is often uneven.</p> <p>The most important rule is always to cross the tracks slowly at 90°. Approach a crossing in the primary riding position to deter overtaking, and then look for the smoothest place to cross. If the rails are oblique to the road, either move further out and then turn left to cross at 90°, or move left just before the crossing and then turn right to cross, depending on the direction of the rails. Take care to signal your intentions clearly, but return your hands to the handlebars before you cross.<br /> "</p> <p>Does anyone own a later edition? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11350#post-128199 Mon, 14 Oct 2013 11:22:53 +0000 wingpig 128199@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote><em>"...they won't get bullied by motors..."</em></blockquote><br /> <blockquote><em>"...without feeling like the traffic will be breathing down his neck..."</em></blockquote></p> <p>Is the things. The Princes Street east end pinchpoint tramwiggle with nice dry roads during the summer is one thing as it's a single-lane channel with one destination through an obviously tram-centered section of road, whereas turning off to Queensferry St or Torphichen St or Dalry Road or whatever will involve closely watching traffic in adjacent lanes as well as that to the rear whilst changing lanes/turning. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11350#post-128198 Mon, 14 Oct 2013 10:29:25 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 128198@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>Just curious but would it be possible to design a tram scheme is such a way that it would always be possible for cyclists to cross the tracks at 90 degrees (or close to).</em>"</p> <p>Unlikely, but there are places where they could have done, but haven't. The officially marked cycle lane across Princes Street at the bototm of the Mound is a prime example.</p> <p>In other places where it's not possible some thougt should have gone into how the traffic is routed so that a cyclist can 'weave' to a correct angle, without feeling like the traffic will be breathing down his neck, or look at solutions that close the gaps on the lines as much as possible at those points.</p> <p>It might sound onerous, but again, if they keep telling us about the pledge and the Model Cycling City (instead of being honest and telling us that just isn't going to happen) then these things should have been considered. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11350#post-128197 Mon, 14 Oct 2013 10:26:43 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 128197@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>I am unclear whether a cycling pledge will win out during a time of austerity?</em>"</p> <p>No, absolutely not. So they should come out and say that, rather than continually referring to the pledge and the Model Cycling City, whenever a cycling story comes out and the Council are asked to comment. Just be honest.</p> <p>"<em>They need some of those "no overtaking" signs with the red car and the black car in the red triangle at potential tramline conflict areas.</em>"</p> <p>Yes. But that's not the 'nice' way to do it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11350#post-128196 Mon, 14 Oct 2013 10:21:20 +0000 Min 128196@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>But with a black bike. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11350#post-128194 Mon, 14 Oct 2013 10:18:28 +0000 kaputnik 128194@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>They need some of those "no overtaking" signs with the red car and the black car in the red triangle at potential tramline conflict areas. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11350#post-128188 Mon, 14 Oct 2013 10:12:05 +0000 chdot 128188@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Just curious but..."</p> <p>Simple answer is probably no. </p> <p>The reality is that it should be reasonably safe at shallower angles too. </p> <p>The main problem is in places like The Mound to/from Hanover Street were little effort has been made to make cyclists confident that by taking a 'sensible' line they won't get bullied by motors. </p> <p>By Waverley Bridge, Haymarket etc. it's worse because cyclists 'have to' do manoeuvres that following vehicles can easily interpret as going in a different direction. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11350#post-128186 Mon, 14 Oct 2013 10:06:19 +0000 gembo 128186@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>For sure, not possible to get off a motorbike and push it, tho I was following a scooter up from viewforth to the canal, wondering where he would go as the road is a dead end and he stopped at the leamington lift bridge and pushed the moped/scooter across.</p> <p>I agree the tram track layout has been laid down at certain junctions in a way that is not bike friendly. I feel unlikely now that it will be altered.</p> <p>I am unclear whether a cycling pledge will win out during a time of austerity? On the one hand, it should as cheaper way to get about but on the other hand closing schools is not something council elected members like to do. Thus priorities are ranked and those with least priority amongst the priorities get dropped. I can see an argument for cycling being a low cost priority with big benefits such that it should not be dropped.</p> <p>As has been suggested on other threads I will continue to take routes through city centre that avoid the tram tracks where possible. I don't feel inconvenienced by these routes Cowgate grass market to the south, bits of queen st and George st to the north? I can see that other people might have routes where it is harder to detour but I will continue to avoid tram tracks where I can whilst cycling in Edinburgh.</p> <p>Interestingly? I once found myself cycling between the tram tracks in Croydon. I think the traffic was stopped due to a shooting. The road space was very narrow as I recollect. Where the tram ends in Croydon is good place to start cycling to Brighton. Getting to that spot on your bike not so easy. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11350#post-128184 Mon, 14 Oct 2013 10:00:38 +0000 Instography 128184@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just curious but would it be possible to design a tram scheme is such a way that it would always be possible for cyclists to cross the tracks at 90 degrees (or close to). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11350#post-128182 Mon, 14 Oct 2013 09:49:00 +0000 chdot 128182@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"We can agree to differ but I think the get off and push advice is actually common sense"</p> <p>I know what you mean you mean, and I know you mean what you say, but the point here is that cycles appear to be being treated as not proper vehicles. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11350#post-128181 Mon, 14 Oct 2013 09:48:56 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 128181@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Aye, agree to differ.</p> <p>To my mind if you know that pledges are going to compete and so you'll likely not comply with a pledge then don't make the pledge; and if you do make the pledge don't then approve layouts and systems that mean you're telling people 'well we know we told you we want you to cycle, but at that bit you might be better walking'.</p> <p>Obviously there are sections we'd all feel better walking at (as you point out), but when designing something from scratch, with a pledge in the background, surely you can plan out that necessity. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11350#post-128176 Mon, 14 Oct 2013 09:44:44 +0000 gembo 128176@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>We can agree to differ but I think the get off and push advice is actually common sense and possibly from cycle craft. And the advice was to all other road users to be aware of trams and their tracks. Not having a go at cyclists. IMO</p> <p>I did not quote the advice in full, it is about being unsure of the layout I think. And i read it as </p> <p>Don't feel you have to prove a point if you are uncertain as to your abilities or do not know the route. </p> <p>I avoid the right turn from st Mary's street on to the cowgate most evenings by stopping at the red light and getting off and pushing with the Peds at the green men. Much more preferable than if I have come through the canongate lights at a different part of the sequence and the cowgate light is green.</p> <p>The council has a number of employees who are keen cyclists and a few elected members including the leader who are keen cyclists. The modal share pledge will be fighting it out with all the other pledges post September 2014 when the landscape of local government, particularly in Edinburgh where the economic downturn has been postponed, will be leaner and meaner. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11350#post-128174 Mon, 14 Oct 2013 09:40:01 +0000 kaputnik 128174@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Cyclists told to cross at as close to 90 degrees as possible</em></p> <p>Wise words from the people who have engineered a number of junctions and sections of road in such a way as to make this near impossible. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11350#post-128172 Mon, 14 Oct 2013 09:25:27 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 128172@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>Cyclists told to cross at as close to 90 degrees as possible, not to gamble at lights and to get off and push if concerned.</em>2</p> <p>Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhh!</p> <p>The 90 degrees point is spot on, but the road layour and lane design means that in many cases you are either forced to cross at a much more shallow angle; or, by crossing close to 90 degrees, you just know drievrs behind are going to think you're going elsewhere and will jump for gaps.</p> <p>And quite frankly, 'get off and push' is just the sort of advice I'd expect from a council who tells us they want us all to cycle, then display the exact opposite view in much of what they put in place. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11350#post-128167 Mon, 14 Oct 2013 08:53:21 +0000 gembo 128167@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Cars drivers are told not to gamble at lights and to wait for green, also told to look out for cyclists</p> <p>Cyclists told to cross at as close to 90 degrees as possible, not to gamble at lights and to get off and push if concerned.</p> <p>Pedestrians warned about headphones and phones.</p> <p>Trams are very quiet </p>