http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Edinburgh South: Day of Action en Mon, 01 Jun 2026 08:30:56 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-132328 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:45:41 +0000 Focus 132328@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not as yet - only just got round to transferring the video from the camera. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-132325 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:41:10 +0000 fimm 132325@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@focus I hope you've sent that to Lothian Buses... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-132314 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:19:09 +0000 Focus 132314@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ <strong>kaputnik</strong></p> <p>I can virtually save you the bother by proxy! 3 days ago:</p> <p>The lights were red as I was coming round the corner to the crossing<br /> <img src="http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n187/reggiedunlop77/Cycling/Headcam/vlcsnap-2013-11-12-05h59m53s220.jpg"><br /> Here comes a #22<br /> <img src="http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n187/reggiedunlop77/Cycling/Headcam/vlcsnap-2013-11-12-06h00m26s123.jpg"><br /> Still coming, easily slow enough to stop behind the line<br /> <img src="http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n187/reggiedunlop77/Cycling/Headcam/vlcsnap-2013-11-12-06h01m04s217.jpg"><br /> Still moving<br /> <img src="http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n187/reggiedunlop77/Cycling/Headcam/vlcsnap-2013-11-12-06h01m12s86.jpg"><br /> Still moving. But he'll at least stop before obscuring the crossing light, won't he?<br /> <img src="http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n187/reggiedunlop77/Cycling/Headcam/vlcsnap-2013-11-12-06h01m21s147.jpg"><br /> Nope!<br /> <img src="http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n187/reggiedunlop77/Cycling/Headcam/vlcsnap-2013-11-12-06h01m30s8.jpg"><br /> And it's a full 8 seconds between stopping and the lights changing<br /> <img src="http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n187/reggiedunlop77/Cycling/Headcam/vlcsnap-2013-11-12-06h01m55s192.jpg"></p> <p>He had over 30 seconds to be aware he was approaching a red light. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-132291 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 12:27:46 +0000 DaveC 132291@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ Kaputnik, complain to Lothian Buses, they have cameras on the buses as we all know and can access the video later on today to review the driver's performance. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-132290 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 12:25:06 +0000 kaputnik 132290@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Retired police spokesman said that bikes could further enrage already angry drivers as they struggle to work</em></p> <p>Well, there's elements of the legal system that seem to be citing that as "just cause" in a number of recent cases. </p> <p>I've never found sitting on my bum pressing a button now and again much of a struggle. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-132288 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 12:22:40 +0000 LaidBack 132288@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Radio Scotland had a go at this again this morning. </p> <p>Not once were this year's bike fatalities mentioned. How soon the media forgets.</p> <p>Bike debates follow a similar line to the ownership of dogs and are a chance fro the majority to vent there frustration at another group.</p> <p>Of course one pro-bike caller claimed to always cycle on the pavement as roads where she was were dangerous. That guaranteed a backlash! </p> <p>Retired police spokesman said that bikes could further enrage already angry drivers as they struggle to work etc... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-132279 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 11:42:31 +0000 amir 132279@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The whole targeting of cyclists thing has never really be based on evidence-based prioritisation. Like much of politics/policy for that matter ... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-132277 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 11:29:21 +0000 kaputnik 132277@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If the No. 21 bus at South Gyle Access this mornign hadn't been accelerating up to an Amber light, he wouldn't have come to a stop half-way across the pedestrian crossing! I'll see how it looks from the eye-on-the-hat later on. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-132275 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 11:24:57 +0000 SRD 132275@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>They're advertising another day of action on inconsiderate and dangerous cyclists. Sigh. </p> <p>Maybe we should ask to meet them and find out why the focus? </p> <p>I suspect that it reflects what they're hearing from the community councils. Which is why I encouraged folk to put themselves forward to serve on these. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-132219 Mon, 11 Nov 2013 23:04:09 +0000 threefromleith 132219@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Been noting what they do during my bus rides on a Monday to/from work. Sadly, more buses are driving up to lights that are on red as they approach and stopping in the ASLs. It's not a sudden light-change catching them out - they're choosing to drive into them to stop. I've tried letting Lothian know via Twitter but have had no response. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-132151 Mon, 11 Nov 2013 18:24:10 +0000 kaputnik 132151@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Alex, I'd agree that there's a big (and ovbious) difference in a bus (or any other vehicle) slowing down to a stop once lights are going red/amber, and the more usual practice of coming to a halt in the correct place behind the line and then creeping forward. Using the former to justify the latter doesn't cut the mustard.</p> <p>Buses go so slowly in town anyway it's not as if they are having to pull up from 40mph at the drop of a hat. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-132149 Mon, 11 Nov 2013 18:15:56 +0000 ARobComp 132149@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>regarding the ASL convo in this thread.<br /> I tweeted Lothian buses as I've seen a worrying trend amongst some of their drivers to start creeping into the ASZ when the lights are on red, this is pretty frustrating when you're filtering up to it (I know blah blah don;t etc) as the bus ends up way forward. </p> <p>Anyway lothain buses said thanks we'll let the drivers know this isn't cool, but a bus driver came back to me with:<br /> <em>@AlexDRobertson Its not an offence if its the only way to safely stop your vehicle after the lights change ...</em></p> <p>Do they genuinely believe that this happens? DOes anyone really think that a bus can enter the ASZ on green and stop before the White line by the red? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-132148 Mon, 11 Nov 2013 18:14:58 +0000 kaputnik 132148@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>They must have been very selective</em></p> <p>Well they were targetting cyclists, were they not? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-132147 Mon, 11 Nov 2013 18:11:21 +0000 Dave 132147@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>They must have been very selective to find 12 riders to go through a light, but only one motor. Stand at the junction of Royal Mile and the Bridges and there are riders who go through (mainly on the green man), but two or three motors on every phase of the lights...</p> <p>They should be capped at equal numbers of tickets by mode. Even though that vastly favours motorists who jump lights (due to the modal split). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-132143 Mon, 11 Nov 2013 17:57:18 +0000 chdot 132143@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@urchaidh - welcome!</p> <p>"issued with conditional offer tickets as it was a day of action and no warnings were given"</p> <p>So that's a fine (unless they choose to fight it in court).</p> <p>So "day of action" is punitive rather than educational(?)</p> <p>Fortnight of action might be more productive -</p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11593" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11593</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-132140 Mon, 11 Nov 2013 17:42:51 +0000 urchaidh 132140@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Police Scotland responded to an FOI request (I was bored) about this 'day of action' with the following:<br /> <blockquote>During the day of action 13 conditional offer tickets where issued mainly for failing to stop at a red lights and breach of no entry signs. </p> <p>12 of these offers were for pedal cycles and 1 was for a motorcar. </p> <p>All 12 of the cyclists were issued with conditional offer tickets as it was a day of action and no warnings were given.<br /> </blockquote> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-129052 Fri, 18 Oct 2013 20:48:53 +0000 chdot 129052@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> Cycling Edinburgh (@CyclingEdin)<br /> 18/10/2013 20:46<br /> @EdinCityPolice Yes - it's a shame @EdinSouthPolice took the line it did <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369</a><br /> Need dialogue - they're hiding!<br /> @Fraser1874</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-129051 Fri, 18 Oct 2013 20:43:05 +0000 chdot 129051@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> EdinburghCityPolice (@EdinCityPolice)<br /> 16/10/2013 14:51<br /> @Fraser1874 Could be worse - could be taking the backlash from the cycling community like our colleagues @EdinSouthPolice!</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-128852 Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:26:01 +0000 neddie 128852@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@gibbo</p> <p>There's a reason Chief Wiggum is the way he is... ;) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-128755 Thu, 17 Oct 2013 11:25:07 +0000 ianfieldhouse 128755@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@gibbo <em>This is right on the doorstep of St Leonard's police station. Where are the tweets about days of action against speeding?</em></p> <p>Yesterday traffic wardens were out at the foot of Whitehouse Loan with a speed gun. They just appeared to be carrying out a speed survey however. I noticed a lot of panicked braking from motorist coming down the hill. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-128752 Thu, 17 Oct 2013 11:17:15 +0000 BikeFan 128752@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Any input from CyclePC - do you still pop in every so often? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-128751 Thu, 17 Oct 2013 10:54:42 +0000 Kim 128751@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Why not have your say on the <a href="http://www.scotland.police.uk/whats-happening/news/2013/october/edinburgh-policing-plan-2014-17-survey/">Edinburgh Policing Plan 2014-17 survey</a>. There is an <a href="http://svy.mk/159rXJe">online survey</a> that aims to give people in Edinburgh the opportunity to shape policing in the Capital in the future. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-128747 Thu, 17 Oct 2013 10:46:25 +0000 gibbo 128747@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote><em>Actually, thinking about this... Every single commute there will be at least one, but usually many more, drivers go past me breaking the speed limit. </em></blockquote></p> <p>What I find particularly galling is the survey that showed 75% of vehicles in the Southside breaking the speed limit. (After the 20mph limit was introduced.)</p> <p>This is right on the doorstep of St Leonard's police station. Where are the tweets about days of action against speeding?</p> <p>It reminds me of Chief Wiggum in the Simpsons, whose response to most crime is to blame "rowdy teens" and cancel the prom. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-128745 Thu, 17 Oct 2013 10:40:16 +0000 steveo 128745@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>You don't, you enforce/investigate all regardless of scale. </em></p> <p>And there in is the problem for me, if this a "South Side day of action" where all road offences were enforced with a visible police presence treat all road users equally there would be no grounds for any one to complain. But they've vocally allowed poor driving to continue whilst "dealing" with another group. </p> <p>Targeted seat belt or speeding days don't apply to cyclists for obvious reasons but if they did I'd expect cyclists to be targeted as much as drivers. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-128744 Thu, 17 Oct 2013 10:40:06 +0000 algo 128744@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote><em>I've no problem with errant cyclists being brought to book at all. But the way the South police guys have gone about it is pandering to that Daily Wail mentality.</em></blockquote></p> <p>I completely agree with this - the way this is presented in the tweets is reinforcing an "us and them" mentality which is so damaging - it's precisely what gives non-cycling drivers a sense of entitlement... bringing about road tax nonsense etc etc... I am also a driver - I am usually on a bike, but I exist in the intersection - this sort of rhetoric does exactly what WC said much better than I could. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-128743 Thu, 17 Oct 2013 10:38:08 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 128743@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>To me it's a bit like saying (outrage example of scale coming) we should only focus on violent Bank Robbery, and forget all those trivial bike thefts where no one was really affected.</em>"</p> <p>Whereas the South Police statement of action was, "We should only focus on the trivial bike thefts and not violent bank robbery..." If you're going to have a day of action on the roads, target it at all road users...</p> <p>(and I would break out drink driving as something specific that can be targeted on its own given the damage, destruction and death it causes - drink drivers should be hung by their gonads as far as I'm concerned) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369&page=2#post-128742 Thu, 17 Oct 2013 10:35:52 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 128742@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>Every person driving into an ASL after the light changes is an offence, every driver reaching the 10% threshold is an offence, every bald tyre, blown light, empty screen wash bottle.</em>"</p> <p>Actually, thinking about this... Every single commute there will be at least one, but usually many more, drivers go past me breaking the speed limit. Most ASLs have cars stopped in them. I'll pass a number of cars parked on pavements that will have been driven there. Cars will be stranded in hatched areas. And you'll always see people on the phone. And not one single time on my commute, not once, have I seen the police dealing with <em>any</em> of those drivers.</p> <p>I'd go for a (very) conservative estimate of 5 drivers each commute breaking the law. So ten a day, 50 a week, roughly 1750 a year (as I don't work every week!). That's just me, commuting 4 miles each way, 40 minutes worth of riding. 1750, a conservative estimate of the law being broken. That would only need 195 cyclists to record those 340,000 offences in the year.</p> <p>Again, not saying that cyclists shouldn't be targetted, but it's a fallacy to believe that motorists are being hammered left, right and centre because we all, every day, see law breaking going unpunished. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369#post-128741 Thu, 17 Oct 2013 10:32:56 +0000 Baldcyclist 128741@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Every person driving into an ASL after the light changes is an offence, every driver reaching the 10% threshold is an offence, every bald tyre, blown light, empty screen wash bottle</em></p> <p>Of course, all of those things should be enforced, so should cycling the wrong way up a one way street.</p> <p>The Police do have "days of action" on Speeding, and seat belts (recently), and drink driving, and..., the list goes on.</p> <p>To me it's a bit like saying (outrage example of scale coming) we should only focus on violent Bank Robbery, and forget all those trivial bike thefts where no one was really affected.</p> <p>You don't, you enforce/investigate all regardless of scale. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369#post-128740 Thu, 17 Oct 2013 10:29:14 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 128740@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>I also don't think 'automated' offences should make any difference to the value of the numbers. The fact lots of folk are being caught automatically means that the police can spend more time pursuing those road users that can't be caught automatically.</em>"</p> <p>No problem with them booking cyclists doing things that are wrong, and no suggestion that drivers don't get caught doing things, but it's the <em>way</em> the message goes out, and going out specifically to police a bit of road but only looking at <em>one</em> of the road users there, reinforcing the opinion of the public that cyclists are a 'danger' (those were the words of the police). Or, as I said above...</p> <p>"<em>A point I made on Twitter is basically if you're going to be out in a specific area targetting road users then why not target them all, rather than issuing a grand proclamation that it's only cyclists you're after?</p> <p>I've no problem with errant cyclists being brought to book at all. But the way the South police guys have gone about it is pandering to that Daily Wail mentality.</em>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11369#post-128739 Thu, 17 Oct 2013 10:20:08 +0000 steveo 128739@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>There were 340,347 motoring offences recorded by Scottish police in 2012/13. I don't think cyclists can really complain that the police are somehow discriminating against them.</em></p> <p>Don't you think there is an issue of scale? How many drivers are there in Scotland? How many hours are spent behind the wheel vs on a bike? Personally I'd expect the number of offences recorded to be <em>much </em> higher if the law were more appropriately enforced. A Scotland wide day of action could probably get 300k recorded offences in a day! Every person driving into an ASL after the light changes is an offence, every driver reaching the 10% threshold is an offence, every bald tyre, blown light, empty screen wash bottle. </p>