http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Roundabout or hotel? en Wed, 13 May 2026 04:38:00 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-157883 Tue, 24 Jun 2014 17:26:31 +0000 Charlethepar 157883@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Since tourist buses sit outside every other city centre hotel, regardless of parking restrictions, bus lanes, danger to others, etc, I wonder where they would block the road outside this proposed hotel. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-157881 Tue, 24 Jun 2014 16:53:52 +0000 Rabid Hamster 157881@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.ama-ltd.co.uk/St_James_files/shapeimage_3.png">For reference: the masterplan despite SusTrans!</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-157879 Tue, 24 Jun 2014 16:48:01 +0000 Rabid Hamster 157879@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>SusTrans should use the StJames Quarter developer plans instead of using existing situation, or full integration of all elements may be a missed opportunity to do something decent and well consulted! ;o] </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-157871 Tue, 24 Jun 2014 15:07:34 +0000 fimm 157871@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There's a stupid cycle lane to nowhere on them... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-157860 Tue, 24 Jun 2014 14:12:36 +0000 neddie 157860@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sustrans has published a discussion paper on the future of Picardy Place and comments are welcome...</p> <p><a href="http://www.sustrans.org.uk/news/sustrans-ideas-picardy-place-edinburgh" rel="nofollow">http://www.sustrans.org.uk/news/sustrans-ideas-picardy-place-edinburgh</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-135999 Sat, 07 Dec 2013 15:32:46 +0000 crowriver 135999@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I asked about where cars were intended to park. </em></p> <p>Great big car parks nearby at St James and across the road on Leith Street. Surely park there?</p> <p><em>I didn't even bother asking about cycling as there wasn't enough detail at this stage to see how it might fit in</em></p> <p>Neither did I, for similar reasons. Maybe I should have. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-135991 Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:44:22 +0000 chdot 135991@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>" I am also torn to liking the first as it recreates the outline of the tenement block that should never have been pulled down in the first place."</p> <p>Yes, but, new building will be much taller. </p> <p>"I was struck by how small it would be compared to the King James Thistle hotel"</p> <p>Yes, which is why I was <em>very</em> surprised to find that the plan <em>really</em> is to replace the roundabout rather than to make some sensible use of the space there that is clogged with traffic flow (at some times of day). </p> <p>Actually I was expecting a mega-development with the roads underneath! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-135986 Sat, 07 Dec 2013 13:53:42 +0000 kaputnik 135986@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I've made a PDF of the main slides with the two options here;</p> <p><a href="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/76546639/Picardy%20Place.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/76546639/Picardy%20Place.pdf</a></p> <p>The two options revolve around restoring a triangular segment in the rough alignment of the old Union Place tenement. One would be a "wedge" conforming to the site. They're calling that the "perimeter option". The second is for a "signature building" with a rough kidney bean plan. I prefer this option as it creates more open space, however I am also torn to liking the first as it recreates the outline of the tenement block that should never have been pulled down in the first place.</p> <p>Questions I posed in my response covered the complete lack of detail about how traffic might access the development, given it's penned in by busy roads on all sides. I asked about where cars were intended to park. I asked for more detail about if the space between the development and the Cathedral was to be public space or another road. I also wanted to know if the plans for "potential basement" development included some sort of grade separated pedestrian access under the road.<br /> I didn't even bother asking about cycling as there wasn't enough detail at this stage to see how it might fit in, given they've not even set on how the building might be located and how the roads might go around it.</p> <p>It would certainly be an excellent hotel site, however walking past the roundabout last night I was struck by how small it would be compared to the King James Thistle hotel. There isn't much space there once you add the roads in. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-135948 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 20:49:29 +0000 crowriver 135948@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Interesting. Time for a letter of objection methinks, pointing out that the westernmost part of the gyratory should be scrapped and the area pedestrianised. Hell they could even move the hotel closer to the Cathedral and widen the pavements/build segregated cycle lanes to the north and south. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-135946 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 20:38:27 +0000 Angus 135946@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just been. The proposals have good and bad points I think.</p> <p>Firstly, I think recreating a hotel building where the old triangular block used to be is a good idea, particularly if the block is mixed-use, with shops etc on ground level, hotel above, and reinstates the old street pattern (the 'street enclosure' thing mentioned by Crowriver).</p> <p>Unfortunately, in terms of public space, and for pedestrians and cyclists, the proposals are frankly pathetic. </p> <p>The main issue, I think, is that new block is severed from the rest of the St James Centre redevelopment by the road joining Leith St and Broughton St. </p> <p>This creates several serious problems:</p> <p>1. The 'high quality public space' shown between the Cathedral and the hotel block, will, in reality, be dominated cars; all the traffic currently going down Leith St will pass through there!<br /> 2. It makes safe, easy pedestrian and cyclist conections athrough/across the whole area very difficult. </p> <p>Someone staffing the consultation (from GVA Grimley...) said that Sustrans had raised objections to this too, and would prefer a straighforward two-way connection between Leith St and Leith Walk. </p> <p>He also thought that the developer would also likely prefer a more direct, pedestrianised connection between the hotel and the rest of the St James area, and that the main party pushing for the currently proposed gyratory system is CEC traffic dept...</p> <p>I think given that the developer isn't actually pushing for inclusion of the Leith St/Broughton St road, might mean that the scheme could concievably be changed, if enough pressure is put on the council to prioritise the quality of public space/pedestrians/cyclists over ease of traffic movement. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-135930 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:53:42 +0000 crowriver 135930@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Here's what I grabbed with my mobile. Forgot to get a shot of the 'signature' building (banana/boomerang shape) visualisation. Not sure what 'street enclosures' are: mid-air walkway bridges?</p> <p><a href="http://imageshack.com/i/j6uifqj"><img src="http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/320x240q90/c/690/uifq.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://imageshack.com/i/euyvemj"><img src="http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/320x240q90/c/534/yvem.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://imageshack.com/i/ma4s75j"><img src="http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/320x240q90/c/802/4s75.jpg"></a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-135925 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 17:51:29 +0000 crowriver 135925@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, I went this afternoon with the kids in tow. A slight refinement of existing roundabout into a gyratory system. Totally dominated by motor vehicle traffic. Pedestrians badly catered for of course. Also no sign of any cycling provision. Think Bullring 1960s era Brum and you get the idea. Could not quite believe how outdated an idea of urban planning the proposals represent. Not satisfactory! </p> <p> I left comments pointing out the missed opportunity to create a plaza or similar public space along by the Cathedral side.</p> <p>Took a few pics: will post in a minute. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-135922 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 16:38:20 +0000 wingpig 135922@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote><em>"...with same road layout..."</em></blockquote></p> <p>...but (significant) extra pressures placed thereon? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-135920 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 16:08:18 +0000 chdot 135920@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just been. </p> <p>Enter through cafe (opp John Lewis) turn left</p> <p>Seems hotel idea is basically instead of roadabout with same road layout.... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-135913 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 14:27:30 +0000 kaputnik 135913@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks for reminder. Will head there later. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-135904 Fri, 06 Dec 2013 12:59:06 +0000 chdot 135904@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Exhibition today! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-135234 Mon, 02 Dec 2013 12:29:12 +0000 chdot 135234@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/11170012696/"><img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3717/11170012696_f511f9fafc.jpg"></a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-135230 Mon, 02 Dec 2013 11:57:16 +0000 kaputnik 135230@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>First time I've noticed <a href="http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/68130/details/edinburgh+leith+street+st+james+centre/">these original Basil Spence plans</a> for the redevlopment of St James's Square.</p> <p>The really intersting bit is that they show the original plan for Leith Street - to be demolished, built over with concrete tower blocks and have a dual carriageway running below. Assume it connected to the planned "Bridges Relief Road".</p> <p>Also, <a href="http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/images/l/1055853/?download">here</a> is the original corner of Little King Street. Photo taken from approximately where the Paolozzi statues are, looking up the hill where John Lewis now is. Also <a href="http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/images/l/1161364/?download">looking the other way</a> towards the cathedral, where the Theatre Royal was, now where the cathedral cafe is.</p> <p><a href="http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/images/l/1161366/?download">And the "missing" central triangular block of Picardy Place</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-135225 Mon, 02 Dec 2013 11:31:38 +0000 PS 135225@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@k Do you mind taking photos of any plans? I've got to go to my works Xmas do on Friday %-) so can't attend.</p> <p>Presumably it would be some form of return to the old streetscape, so the roundabout would be a goner. Here's hoping anyway, a 60's throwback gyratory around a hotel would be awful. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-135216 Mon, 02 Dec 2013 11:04:47 +0000 kaputnik 135216@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm fascinated to see how they're thinking of doing the hotel development, so will go along just to satisfy my curiosity. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765#post-135182 Sun, 01 Dec 2013 22:11:55 +0000 chdot 135182@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> In 2009, City of Edinburgh Council approved Development Principles for Picardy Place which recognised the opportunity to fundamentally change Picardy Place and improve the important<br /> gateway to the city centre from a roundabout prioritising traffic movement to a high quality public place/development area. The current proposals are being developed in general accordance with these principles. </p> <p>A drop-in exhibition is being held on Friday 6 December 2013 between 2pm - 7:30pm at Caf6 Camino Hall, Parish Centre, 1 LiHIe King Street, Edinburgh, EHl 3JD.<br /> We hope you are able to attend </p> <p> "</p> <p><a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/1312-GVA-consultn.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/1312-GVA-consultn.pdf</a> </p>