http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: census data en Mon, 18 May 2026 07:41:32 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=4#post-219765 Fri, 13 May 2016 09:15:59 +0000 Chug 219765@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On point 3, you may want to be a little bit careful about concluding "choosing not to drive to work/study". That 48k of households may be retired or unemployed, so not commuting/studying. </p> <p>Thus the 86k of residents driving to work <em>may</em> be the entire population that owns a car <em>and </em>works. Highly unlikely though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-219741 Thu, 12 May 2016 23:17:06 +0000 HankChief 219741@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ta </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-219732 Thu, 12 May 2016 21:37:04 +0000 gembo 219732@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Logic seems sound. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-219731 Thu, 12 May 2016 21:33:34 +0000 HankChief 219731@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Can someone check my logic please...</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/358/2011_census_transport_and_travel_topic_summary">Census Data</a></p> <p>On Table 1, Edinburgh Residents have 181k cars or vans in their households. This is spread across 134k (60%) of the 223k total households.</p> <p>Table 9 has 86k Edin Residents driving to work or study, with a further 18k as passengers, out of 326k commuting residents.</p> <p>Does this mean that</p> <p>1. average car occupancy (to work/study) is 1.2 (18k+86k/86k)</p> <p>2. Less than half of cars/cans are used as usual method to travel to work/study (86k / 181k)</p> <p>3. At least 48k (134k-86k) residents choose not to drive to work/study. I.e. car owning households less car commuters.</p> <p>In practice, you would have some car owning households having 2+ drivers, hence the 'at least'.</p> <p>Many thanks </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137932 Sun, 22 Dec 2013 21:36:26 +0000 gembo 137932@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chartehall, you have already been quite open about your voting preference.</p> <p>I mean that you cannot see beyond your love of your political choice to an unspun world. However, I also acknowledge that you might be trying to bait the liberals. On this forum including myself.</p> <p>As with the helmet data, I am always keen to distinguish between opinion and fact.</p> <p> Further admit I would be struggling to resolve my cognitive dissonance if a Tory actually did something like improve infrastructure or introduce strict liability. but as I have previousy stated, no politician will do that and indeed Red Ken's congestion charge action may have lost him the mayor's job.</p> <p>As previously stated , I agree with your analysis of Alex Salmond. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137931 Sun, 22 Dec 2013 21:05:23 +0000 Colonies_Chris 137931@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>""I'm a big fan of this cycling revolution taking place in Britain. In my constituency in Oxfordshire at the weekend you just see swarms of people in Lycra on their bikes. We need to be a fitter, healthier country and we need to encourage sport and competitive sport." (David Cameron)</p> <p>This comment exposes the common political failing of confusing sport cycling with everyday cycling. It's particularly bad with the Tories as they tend to see everything in terms of competition. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137928 Sun, 22 Dec 2013 20:25:41 +0000 Charterhall 137928@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@gembo, yes I vote Tory if that's what you mean. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137927 Sun, 22 Dec 2013 20:22:36 +0000 Charterhall 137927@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Is that to work or as 'weekend roadies' (or both)?"</p> <p>Both, along with mtb and triathlon. And way, way above my level, at least two keen triathletes that I know of at executive level. I couldn't tell you if they ride to work. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137924 Sun, 22 Dec 2013 20:17:19 +0000 gembo 137924@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>it would seem that charterhall has much love for boris and David.</p> <p>Just to reiterate</p> <p>Ken introduced the congestion charge. This is what can be designated as an actual political change.</p> <p>Boris says stuff but he doesn't introduce any actual initiatives that make any difference, I have cycled the super highway and it is not great.</p> <p>The slightly camp pink gammon robot merely says nice things,</p> <p>Charterhall is in love and as we know love is blind </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137920 Sun, 22 Dec 2013 14:04:09 +0000 Calum 137920@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's nice that Boris and Dave recognise cycling as a Good Thing, but that's about all the praise they deserve. Cycling really isn't increasing in any significant way in Britain and the idea that it is "mainstream" is wishful thinking. Modal share is stuck at less than 2%.</p> <p>If you spend most of your life swanning about Oxford, Cambridge, and Central London - as these high-up political types tend to do - then you see a lot of people on bikes and I suppose it's tempting to think that everything is rosy, but away from those places cycling as a mode of transport is basically extinct. </p> <p>I don't think politicians are going to take the initiative on this. The Greens are doing some good work in Brighton, but they're not going to form the next government, and you only need to look at the state of Glasgow to see what the Labour Party thinks of cycling (and indeed walking). Improvements for cycling need to be seen as vote-winners - and, fortunately, people are starting to protest for these things. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137919 Sun, 22 Dec 2013 11:50:36 +0000 chdot 137919@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"its the likes of Boris and DC that have popularised cycling, moving it out of the trendie leftie ghetto and into the aspirational mainstream"</p> <p>Not sure that would stand up to serious scrutiny. </p> <p>"now, my colleagues are far more likely to be cyclists themselves"</p> <p>Is that to work or as 'weekend roadies' (or both)? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137918 Sun, 22 Dec 2013 11:43:20 +0000 Charterhall 137918@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Introducing a congestion charge is one thing but its the likes of Boris and DC that have popularised cycling, moving it out of the trendie leftie ghetto and into the aspirational mainstream. 15 years ago I was regarded as an oddball for cycling to work, some of my colleagues used to call me Swampy (remember him ?) reflecting the image that cycling had at the time. That would never happen now, my colleagues are far more likely to be cyclists themselves. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137917 Sun, 22 Dec 2013 11:11:55 +0000 gembo 137917@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>However pointing out that a politician is engaged in PR about cycling rather than actually doing anything substantial to improve infrastructure , or introduce strict liability is a different type of analysis from pointing out that the pope is a catholic.</p> <p>The point about Alex Salmond remains legitimate as he does not even engage in PR about cycling.</p> <p>However, the people who actually do anything positive for cycling are the grassroots organisations like spokes because what politicians need to do for cyclists such as infrastructure changes and strict liability would I imagine lose them votes?</p> <p>The politician who introduced congestion charges in London, thus paving the way for cycling to be promoted was Ken Livingstone. The congestion charge being a real policy tht had real change and which despite it now being accepted possibly lost Red Ken votes. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137915 Sun, 22 Dec 2013 07:31:37 +0000 Charterhall 137915@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Crowriver, criticising a politician for being good at PR is like criticising the Pope for being Catholic. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137906 Sat, 21 Dec 2013 18:12:51 +0000 Cyclingmollie 137906@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Nelly, I taught my three daughters to cycle and provided them with bikes until their teens. I now forbid them from cycling on the roads. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137905 Sat, 21 Dec 2013 18:05:20 +0000 crowriver 137905@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>page after page of positive stories reporting his support for cycling. </em></p> <p>Well he does have a background in PR. As the saying goes, "actions speak louder..." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137898 Sat, 21 Dec 2013 14:42:12 +0000 SRD 137898@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I guess it defines how you mean 'support'. Not being party political with this one, I'm willing to give Boris a fair bit of credit, but can't see it for Cameron at all. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137897 Sat, 21 Dec 2013 14:37:11 +0000 Charterhall 137897@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Google David Cameron on Cycling, returns page after page of positive stories reporting his support for cycling. Google Alex Salmond on Cycling returns no positive stories at all. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137895 Sat, 21 Dec 2013 13:16:43 +0000 crowriver 137895@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Here's one of the first decisions Cameron took to 'promote cycling': <a href="http://road.cc/content/news/24490-cycling-england-leaked-list-quangos-be-abolished">he abolished Cycling England</a>. Or rather his minister Pickles did. Also mentioned in that article, the Coalition cut funding for speed cameras, forcing local authorities to switch off thousands of them. I'm sure literally turning a blind eye to speeding motorists has lead to safer roads for cycling, hasn't it? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137894 Sat, 21 Dec 2013 12:42:15 +0000 Nelly 137894@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Maybe time for a "Family Network - the reality" thread."</p> <p>Not sure if this counts as family network but it shows how family unfriendly our infra is.</p> <p>I live about 3 minutes walk from Sciennes PS but I simply can't allow my son to ride to school as he would have to cross two busy roads and even then the pavement opposite the school is too narrow to be truly shared use. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137893 Sat, 21 Dec 2013 12:01:31 +0000 chdot 137893@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Epic post"</p> <p>I'll take as seasonal greetings...</p> <p>Maybe time for a "Family Network - the reality" thread. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137892 Sat, 21 Dec 2013 11:32:35 +0000 Instography 137892@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Jeez, just by sitting on our bikes and pedalling around we've each done more to promote cycling than David Cameron has. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137891 Sat, 21 Dec 2013 11:24:44 +0000 cc 137891@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks chdot. Epic post.</p> <p><em>Promoting cycling - beyond saying 'use the Family Network, it's great" is perhaps a bit premature... </em></p> <p>and they can't even say that - more like "Use the Family Network, it has terrible potholes, ice all over the road and cars parked all day on double yellow lines at blind junctions" :-/ </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137890 Sat, 21 Dec 2013 11:14:57 +0000 chdot 137890@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"there's nobody in Scotland of any significance doing anything to promote cycling"</p> <p>"the people who have done the most for cycling in Scotland"</p> <p>Those are both true. </p> <p>They also highlight (part of) the problem. </p> <p>I have been involved in 'promoting' cycling for many years. This has included selling people bikes, working with schools - organising rides, encouraging cycle training (not just as a tick-box activity) and encouraging 'Safe Routes' campaigning. </p> <p>I have also been involved in more general 'promotion'. <em>Some</em> of it <em>might</em> have been effective. </p> <p>I'm sure Keith Brown thinks he is involved in promoting cycling. I'm sure he thinks that announcing that he will ride Pedal for Scotland next year 'promotes cycling'. I'm sure he believes that actually riding PfS is promoting cycling. </p> <p>Clearly Cycling Scotland believes that PfS promotes cycling. </p> <p>Of course it does, and closed road sportifs, and medal winning athletes and the opening of the QBC etc. </p> <p>BUT</p> <p>it's clearly not enough. </p> <p>There is now some consensus that what is required - to get more people just riding bikes - is better infrastructure and changed driver behaviour. </p> <p>Campaigning for the first part is hard work and without the dedicated individuals within Spokes a lot of what Edinburgh has probably wouldn't exist. </p> <p>Driver behaviour would change if more people cycled (that more would obviously include 'drivers'). Attitudes have changed on drink driving, but that required political action - legislation and enforcement. </p> <p>There is some movement on 20mph but (so far) a distinct lack of willingness to enforce. </p> <p>In London (where everything is far from perfect) probably the biggest change was the introduction of the Congestion Charge. This was done by Ken <em>without a referendum</em>. His Labour Party colleagues in Scotland insisted on having to hold a referendum before such 'controversial' measures could be implemented. </p> <p>The 'two cordon' scheme that CEC proposed was less than ideal and the (almost inevitable) defeat somehow meant that a revised version couldn't be developed. </p> <p>If there had been a Yes in that referendum, there would have been less traffic <em>and</em> money for PT and walking/cycling. </p> <p>Of course the lack if that revenue stream is unfortunate, but the abandonment of any serious attempts to restrict traffic is really disappointing. </p> <p>The massive opportunity of the tram work disruption to demonstrate what could happen if some things became permanent - eg closure of Russell Road - has been squandered. </p> <p>So any significant changes are likely to require a lot of campaigning. Promoting cycling - beyond saying 'use the Family Network, it's great" is perhaps a bit premature... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137888 Sat, 21 Dec 2013 10:28:07 +0000 gembo 137888@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The people who set up Spokes and continue to run this organisation are the people who have done the most for cycling in Scotland</p> <p>Similar organisations at grassroots level such as CTC have done more for cycling than politicians</p> <p>There is PR puff and then there is substance </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137886 Sat, 21 Dec 2013 08:36:20 +0000 SRD 137886@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>David Cameron may be a 'fan' but I have yet to see him doing anything of significance'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137885 Sat, 21 Dec 2013 07:28:24 +0000 Charterhall 137885@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-24578165" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-24578165</a></p> <p> "I'm a big fan of this cycling revolution taking place in Britain. In my constituency in Oxfordshire at the weekend you just see swarms of people in Lycra on their bikes. We need to be a fitter, healthier country and we need to encourage sport and competitive sport."</p> <p>Unfortunately, as I've noted before, there's nobody in Scotland of any significance doing anything to promote cycling. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137878 Fri, 20 Dec 2013 23:10:22 +0000 crowriver 137878@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>two men who are doing most to promote it in the UK are both Tories.</em></p> <p>Okay we had a discussion about whether Boris had done quite as much as he has claimed to have done for cycling. He has made some promises about the 'Crossrail for cyclists' in future so let's see.</p> <p>The other Tory is...? Can't think of anyone off the top of my head. Is Chris Hoy a Tory? Bradley Wiggins? Chris Froome? (They might all be as far as I know). Or is it the Plebgate ex-whip we are talking about? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137875 Fri, 20 Dec 2013 22:56:32 +0000 SRD 137875@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>As I'd argued before, it is easier for eg right wingers to liberalise immigration, or left wingers to invade Iraq. Best example being de Klerk letting Mandela out of jail. Lots more examples </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11915&page=3#post-137867 Fri, 20 Dec 2013 22:10:36 +0000 Charterhall 137867@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Quite ironic that so many trendy left wingers claim cycling as their own but the two men who are doing most to promote it in the UK are both Tories. </p>