http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Historical architecture - WW2 era en Wed, 13 May 2026 06:05:34 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138241 Sat, 28 Dec 2013 19:38:10 +0000 kaputnik 138241@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There must be some stuff around Drem airfield too (now the Fenton Barns shopping / workshops places.) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138240 Sat, 28 Dec 2013 19:02:06 +0000 Charterhall 138240@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That would be quite an effective anti-chaingang device if the locals were to get it working again. Better keep it quiet. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138238 Sat, 28 Dec 2013 17:51:02 +0000 kaputnik 138238@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://goo.gl/maps/UqC4O" rel="nofollow">http://goo.gl/maps/UqC4O</a> can see it just to the left of the "40" sign. Co-incidentally on the road to Archerfield too! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138237 Sat, 28 Dec 2013 17:34:06 +0000 EddieD 138237@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>NT4480 7659, as best as I can judge. It's very small, just a nozzle halfway up the wall, with a piece of pipe behind. It's on the B1377, just as you turn off the A198 past the station.</p> <p><a href="http://www.eastlothianatwar.co.uk/ELAW/Defence_Against_Invasion.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.eastlothianatwar.co.uk/ELAW/Defence_Against_Invasion.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138229 Sat, 28 Dec 2013 14:11:53 +0000 Smudge 138229@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@EddieD, cool, do you have a grid for that? What's left? I wouldn't mind a nose at that sometime when I'm passing :-)<br /> I remember Time Team doing a feature on one at Shooters Hill in Greenwich but didn't know that sort of defence had been placed near Edinburgh. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138217 Sat, 28 Dec 2013 09:54:28 +0000 EddieD 138217@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On the wall near longniddry station, there are the remains of a flamme fougasse - basically a flame thrower. I sometimes cycle round e lothian, using the war defences as waymarks </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138209 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:38:31 +0000 kaputnik 138209@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@smudge - point taken, but they can shoot all they want, all they're going to hit is dummy targets :) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138208 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:33:49 +0000 Smudge 138208@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Good stuff Kappers thanks, the problem with close location of guns isn't barrels, it's incoming fire, four guns make a juicy target that's relatively easy to hit. Four guns dispersed into individual targets are harder to hit, and take more resources.<br /> Thanks for the info on the AA, every day is a schoolday :-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138207 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:16:47 +0000 Charterhall 138207@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There's also a few interesting features dating from WWI, such as the trenches in Dreghorn Woods and the pier at Blackness Castle from which the munitions for the battle of Jutland were loaded. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138206 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:05:49 +0000 Charterhall 138206@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There's a fascinating account of wartime East Lothian in Thistle Soup by Peter Kerr, about life on a farm in the Garleton Hills north of Haddington. With all the air bases in East Lothian and the warships in the Forth it sounds like there was a great deal of military activity hereabouts.<br /> <a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thistle-Soup-Peter-Kerr/dp/0957306229" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thistle-Soup-Peter-Kerr/dp/0957306229</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138205 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:00:48 +0000 Arellcat 138205@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I wondered when someone was going to mention that one. :-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138204 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:32:07 +0000 kaputnik 138204@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@smudge in reply to comment on the other thread about the Hilltown site, the actual layout is similar to other examples I've Googled for a 3.7" AA battery (the standard British fixed heavy AA gun at this time), with four gun emplacements grouped around a command bunker, with shell and charge lockers around the edge of each gun dugout. Here are a couple of examples;</p> <p><img src="http://www.brucehunt.co.uk/Bere%20Alston%20AA%20battery.jpg-for-web-large.jpg"><br /> <img src="http://www.portsdown-tunnels.org.uk/images/Surface_sites/haa_guns/southwick_haa_1965_map.jpg"></p> <p>I think all the decoy site has done is scale everything down a bit so that from altitude it would appear more-or less correct. These guns were designed to engage targets with altitudes of tens of thousands of feet, so at that distance I think it would pass muster. Also, at that altitude the guns would be at a significant elevation therefore the problems of interference would be much reduced and it's unlikely they would ever be called to fire at anything from low elevations.</p> <p>Fascinatingly there's a very intact installation at Liberton, see the <a href="http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/details/1104375/">Canmore record here</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138197 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 19:45:20 +0000 kaputnik 138197@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Rodney was one of the two ships that finished off the Bismarck </em></p> <p>Well, the inner pedant would say it was one of two ships that "did for" Bismarck; she was finished off by torpedoes from the cruiser <em>Dorsetshire</em> after <em>Rodney</em>, <em>King George V</em> and their escorts had turned for home given <em>KGV</em>'s critical fuel situation. The other story goes that the crew scuttled her. Or it was a combination of both. Whichever version you subscribe to, the only way was down.</p> <p>Sorry. I got a bit sidetracked there. Were we talking about Edinburgh or something at one point?</p> <p>To try and tenuously link it back to our locality, here's a sad photo of <em>Rodney </em>and <em>Nelson </em>being broken up at T.W. Ward's yard in Inverkeithing.</p> <p><a href="http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/ships/shipyards/INVERKEITHING_HMSRodney_Revenge_Nelson_24_5_1949.jpg"><img src="http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/ships/shipyards/INVERKEITHING_HMSRodney_Revenge_Nelson_24_5_1949.jpg"></a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138196 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 19:25:08 +0000 Charterhall 138196@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Rodney was one of the two ships that finished off the Bismarck </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138189 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 17:59:33 +0000 Smudge 138189@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Kaputnik, my old man suggested it was to act as a tempting alternative to the rail bridge for attacking bombers, when as a callow youth I pointed out that "any fule kno" that it is an island, he suggested I imagine this: being in an aeroplane doing 200+mph, hundreds of miles from home, concentrating hard on just flying it as anti-aircraft fire bursts around me and tracer whizzes past, quite possibly Hurricanes from nearby RAF Turnhouse, or the training unit at Grangemouth are racing towards me to try to catch and kill me, conditions may be rough and I'm struggling to line up on a thin tracery of metalwork to drop bombs when in amongst the chaos I spot what looks like a nice fat warship stopped in the water...<br /> Relatively easy to spot the deception from a U-Boat with hopefully time to pick a target, but in an estuary littered with warships (from the pictures I've seen, Rosyth and Port Edgar were often so full that large numbers of ships were moored around the bridge area) I would contend that it could easily fool a highly stressed bomber crew for long enough to be effective. I was told it was also lit to resemble a ship. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138185 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:52:28 +0000 kaputnik 138185@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>compare with one I did earlier;</p> <p><a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/HMS_Nelson_%281931%29_profile_drawing.png"><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/HMS_Nelson_%281931%29_profile_drawing.png/320px-HMS_Nelson_%281931%29_profile_drawing.png"></a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138183 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:44:56 +0000 chdot 138183@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.gm0axy.ic24.net/inchmick.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.gm0axy.ic24.net/inchmick.htm</a></p> <p>From</p> <p>hhtp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inchmickery </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138182 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:41:57 +0000 chdot 138182@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/11583037876/"><img src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5530/11583037876_e92e9db596.jpg"></a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138181 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:37:12 +0000 kaputnik 138181@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The fortifications on Inchmickery in Chdot's photo above are meant to resemble, in silhouette, the outline of the battleships HMS <em>Nelson </em>or her sister <em>Rodney</em>;</p> <p><img src="http://www.back-up.fsnet.co.uk/HMS_Nelson-3.jpg"></p> <p>Although that may be an urban legend as it wouldn't take a genius of a submarine captain to check his chart and realise he was looking at an island. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138180 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:33:35 +0000 Cyclingmollie 138180@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@smudge, that explains the concrete and brick huts at the West Braes in Crail. I grew up there and never knew what they had been for. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138176 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:09:02 +0000 kaputnik 138176@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I didn't know someone was trying to restore the bunker. The upper floor (pictured in the news article) was always in OK condition and predates the control bunker underneath.</p> <p>Serious amount of luck and heavy work and investment needed in the main bunker, which is accessed by a long ramp which had an old van and loads of tyres dumped at the bottom. Gutted and burnt out interior and the central floor completely collapsed. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138165 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 13:08:59 +0000 Stickman 138165@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em><br /> Is this the same bunker in the news earlier this year ?<br /> </em></p> <p>Yes, that's the one. I often walk past it and see a van from The Secret Bunker outside, and sometimes a couple of guys working. Good luck to them, but given the size of the place and the state it's in, restoring it seems an impossible job. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138164 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 12:58:10 +0000 Charterhall 138164@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Reading Kaputnik's link about the Canal Defence Light, it appears to have been enthusiastically adopted by certain modern day canal users. "A flashing beam would further dazzle and disorient enemy troops by not giving their eyes a chance to adapt to either light or darkness" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138162 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 12:48:42 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 138162@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>kaputnik, that Shawfair site is crying out for a ride. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138160 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 12:35:47 +0000 Charterhall 138160@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Is this the same bunker in the news earlier this year ?<br /> <a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/queen-s-edinburgh-nuclear-bunker-to-open-as-museum-1-2810424" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/queen-s-edinburgh-nuclear-bunker-to-open-as-museum-1-2810424</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138159 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 12:32:02 +0000 chdot 138159@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/11582037865/"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2867/11582037865_32be10f034.jpg"></a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138150 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 11:18:15 +0000 kaputnik 138150@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The lights referred to on the other thread may have been something like the obfuscatingly named "Canal Defence Light", which was a special directional searchlight that emitted the beam through a narrow slit. </p> <p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canal_Defence_Light" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canal_Defence_Light</a></p> <p>Here's <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/kaputniq/sets/72157627164006205/">some photos</a> I took years ago on Cramond with a film camera. Was trying my hand at some B&amp;W post-apocalyptic shots but didn't really know what I was doing.</p> <p>The British were quite into experimenting with lights as weapons, see also the less than successful Turbinlite and the vastly more useful Leigh Light. Then there were "Starfish" sites (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_site)" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_site)</a>, which were large installations of lights and fires designed to mimic airfields, streets or factories and also fires and bombs exploding, to attempt to decoy night-time visually aimed bombers from the genuine targets, which would be blacked out and/or camouflaged.</p> <p>There were Starfish sites at Torphin Quarry, Cramond, Ratho and Braid Hills. You don't see much left behind as they were temporary structures of wood and barrels and ditches, although sometimes the control bunkers remain.</p> <p>Other things that may be accessible include the AA Decoy Battery at <a href="http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/186249/details/edinburgh+millerhill+hilltown+decoy+anti+aircraft+battery/">Hilltown</a>, near Shawfair. It's in the middle of a field but should be accessible. </p> <p>Something that's definitely not accessible is the bunker at the back of Clermiston Hill (called Barnton Quarry) which was built during WW2 and later expanded in the cold war into a "ROTOR" air defence control bunker. But you don't want to go in there as it was burnt out in the early 90s and is full of Asbestos fibres plus the central floor is missing. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138147 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 10:36:59 +0000 Arellcat 138147@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Paging Kaputnik. Kaputnik to the grey reinforced concrete courtesy telephone box, please. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11949#post-138144 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 09:37:34 +0000 Smudge 138144@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>We were going a bit OT on the spotted thread so here are some more links about Crammond Island defences and the Firth of Forth defences generally. (not all accessible by bicycle unfortunately, though you could cycle to the coast then catch a boat to the Isle of May ;-))</p> <p><a href="http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/50455/details/edinburgh+cramond+island+cramond+battery/" rel="nofollow">http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/50455/details/edinburgh+cramond+island+cramond+battery/</a></p> <p><a href="http://fyca.sbmyc.com/Publications/CruisingGuide/cruisingp7.htm" rel="nofollow">http://fyca.sbmyc.com/Publications/CruisingGuide/cruisingp7.htm</a></p> <p><a href="http://indicatorloops.com/mayisland.htm" rel="nofollow">http://indicatorloops.com/mayisland.htm</a></p> <p><a href="http://aerial.rcahms.gov.uk/isadg/isadg.php?refNo=GB_551_NCAP/2" rel="nofollow">http://aerial.rcahms.gov.uk/isadg/isadg.php?refNo=GB_551_NCAP/2</a> </p>