http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "Motoring groups welcome 25% rise in fines for cyclists" en Mon, 18 May 2026 21:36:16 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138485 Thu, 02 Jan 2014 14:11:35 +0000 Dave 138485@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The absolute numbers are so small that I'm not even sure whether we can attribute it to policing priorities more than just random variation... according to the article in all of Scotland there were 369 reported cycling offences last year rising from 298 the year before. I suppose it's the difference that one extra police initiative could cause?</p> <p>Approximately 5 cyclists per week. In contrast 4,500 scofflaw motorists per week were caught using the bus lanes when enforcement was privatised.</p> <p>Since there's no clear reason to assume people are more or less law abiding when they leave their car at home and get on a bike, this suggests that cyclists are still massively under-enforced, although an evidence-led approach would certainly focus resources on motorists in this way. Perhaps cause for celebration? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138418 Tue, 31 Dec 2013 19:12:53 +0000 Charterhall 138418@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I know of an IAM member who when faced with a charge of speeding tried to argue his way out of it on the basis that he was an 'advanced' driver. Fortunately he was unsuccessful but I think it illustrates nicely the attitude of certain IAM members. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138400 Tue, 31 Dec 2013 13:31:45 +0000 Greenroofer 138400@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/fines-for-bad-cycling-in-edinburgh-soar-1-3251571">Now in the EEN</a></p> <p>Don't waste your energy on reading the comments. The usual people say the usual stuff. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138356 Mon, 30 Dec 2013 16:42:24 +0000 Kenny 138356@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"the actual figures are just a reflection of current policing priorities and campaigns"</p> <p>As has been shown by a previous thread which explained that the police won't do anything about a car/van (etc) driver who almost hits a cyclist, but didn't only due to the expert cycling skilz of said cyclist. They don't bother to follow up such cases, and maybe they similarly don't chase up most RLJing either? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138347 Mon, 30 Dec 2013 15:39:26 +0000 gembo 138347@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Ddf that is why I put ceteris paribus (all other things remaining equal)</p> <p>Of coursenthenincreasednpolice activity may be linked to an increase in cycling? But may not as some police activity such as more bobbies on the beat is about perception rather than reality </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138345 Mon, 30 Dec 2013 15:19:58 +0000 chdot 138345@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"a better answer would be putting max police resources into tackling the sources of danger"</p> <p>Quite</p> <p>This 'action due to raised profile' is also relevant to the '<a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11961#post-138314">Call Kaye discussion</a>' earlier. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138344 Mon, 30 Dec 2013 15:12:54 +0000 DdF 138344@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>part of it would seem to be fair. Ie, an increase in cycling should lead to an increase in fines</em></p> <p>No, IMO the increase in cycling fines is purely a reflection of policing activity. The number of fineable cycling and motoring offences committed daily totally outweighs those apprehended by the police. The police would have no difficulty in doubling (or multiplying by 10) the number of fines issued to cyclists or to motorists - the actual figures are just a reflection of current policing priorities and campaigns.</p> <p>In the last couple of years we have seen the new 'treat them equally' campaigns by police in Edinburgh, specifically going out for a week or two to target cyclists and motorists on particular routes, and this could be where the increase in cyclist fines is coming from.</p> <p>The increased policing attention to cycling offences probably stems in part from the rising casualty figures and in part from the constant stream of complaints about cycling to councillors and to the police (those two factors of course could in Edinburgh result from rising cycle use).</p> <p>At least the police campaigns on cycling offences are now usually dual motorist/cyclist campaigns, thanks to the pressure from the cycling community, which is a step forward, even if a better answer would be putting max police resources into tackling the sources of danger. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138327 Mon, 30 Dec 2013 13:10:29 +0000 gembo 138327@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@wilmcow, I did not know that about Neil Greig, I will do some googling, but for now I will adjust his Thetan type standing to Very Advanced, by this I am suggesting a very advanced friend of Richard Head?</p> <p>he looks quite friendly, and a bit like a guy I used to know, not same guy but similar </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138324 Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:56:11 +0000 neddie 138324@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"Cyclists must exercise responsibility if they want to be taken seriously as a mainstream form of transport"</em></p> <p>This is a roundabout way of saying: 'Cycling is not a mainstream form of transport, and never will be, because we all know that it will never be the case where <em>all</em> cyclists behave responsibly'</p> <p>...in just the same way that we will never see <em>all</em> motorists behaving responsibly </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138323 Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:53:46 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 138323@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>As you say Gembs, the IAM does actually take road safety, and the conduct of motorists, seriously. But Mr Greig appeared to be a bit of a liability when he was with the AA, and seems to have continued his rather non-sensical statements over into the IAM. Does the organisation no credit (in his time at the AA he'd issue statements and tweets that were then in direct contradiction to what the heid honcho (the name of whom I can't remember, but a regular cyclist) was saying. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138320 Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:50:52 +0000 gembo 138320@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What we must remember is that Neil Greig is Advanced </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138318 Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:42:46 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 138318@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>Cyclists must exercise responsibility if they want to be taken seriously as a mainstream form of transport</em>"</p> <p>There was a great blog post from someone a while back about how daft a statement this is, and about how it only seems to apply to cyclists (it was about cyclists having to behave before they deserve 'respect' on the roads).</p> <p>It really is very strange that cyclists must all, 100% of the time, every single one of them, observe the rules in order to be allowed on the roads; but the same thought process doesn't apply to drivers. Very strange. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138315 Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:35:55 +0000 wingpig 138315@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I got past the cookie nag by going through a few related articles.</p> <p><em>"Neil Greig, director of policy for the Institute of Advanced Motoring, said the figures would reassure motorists. He said: "I'm pleased to see a rise in cycling prosecutions to match the rise in cycling. <strong>Cyclists must exercise responsibility if they want to be taken seriously as a mainstream form of transport</strong>."</em></p> <p>My emphasis, his rhubarb. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138309 Mon, 30 Dec 2013 11:52:41 +0000 gembo 138309@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>IAMs does take a stiff view of errant motorists. They see themselves as the good drivers. Perhaps we should launch IACs, as there are far too few cycling groups. I had cookie issues with the whole article but part of it would seem to be fair. Ie, an increase in cycling should lead to an increase in fines, ceteris paribus </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138308 Mon, 30 Dec 2013 11:50:41 +0000 wingpig 138308@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The figures would reassure EEN frothtrolls who are convinced that every cyclist breaks the law but no cyclists are ever punished.</p> <p><em>"Neil Greig, lord emperor of the motorist mentality cosseters association, soothed troubled drivers by implying that their least reasonable thoughts were entirely valid."</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138307 Mon, 30 Dec 2013 11:50:19 +0000 crowriver 138307@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>do they post the same when more motorists are caught speeding etc?</em></p> <p>I think you know the answer to that one. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138295 Mon, 30 Dec 2013 10:13:29 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 138295@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What custard said.</p> <p>Plus, they appear to have illustrated the article with a picture of a cyclist.... pushing their bike.... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138293 Mon, 30 Dec 2013 10:09:13 +0000 custard 138293@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>me too. Although do they post the same when more motorists are caught speeding etc? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11962#post-138291 Mon, 30 Dec 2013 09:53:29 +0000 chdot 138291@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> Neil Greig, director of policy for the Institute of Advanced Motoring, said the figures would reassure motorists. He said: "I'm pleased to see a rise in cycling prosecutions to match the rise in cycling. </p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/news/transport/motoring-groups-welcome-25-rise-in-fines-for-cyclists.23007704?_=5b8ea999e9774c1b8e6c3a285c6a92b99a04663e" rel="nofollow">http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/news/transport/motoring-groups-welcome-25-rise-in-fines-for-cyclists.23007704?_=5b8ea999e9774c1b8e6c3a285c6a92b99a04663e</a> </p>