http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: New pinch point Dundee St/Fountainbridge en Sun, 17 May 2026 13:49:16 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005&page=2#post-142504 Wed, 12 Feb 2014 22:30:50 +0000 SRD 142504@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>meanwhile, I don't shop at tesco after they ran down a forumite. and tried to do as much to magnatom. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005&page=2#post-142503 Wed, 12 Feb 2014 22:30:14 +0000 gembo 142503@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sainsburys definitely on the ropes now </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005&page=2#post-142502 Wed, 12 Feb 2014 22:25:12 +0000 wishicouldgofaster 142502@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I refuse to shop at Sainsbury's as a protest at their lack of action to stop their drivers parking in the ASL at Stockbridge.</p> <p>The loading bay is a bit on the tight side for some of their lorries but I originally thought common sense would prevail and they would appreciate the danger. Either using smaller lorries/parking properly or even a slight encroachment towards the bus stop all seemed reasonable solutions to me.</p> <p>This is what the outcome was - they and the police both know it is dangerous and illegal to enroach on the ASL. However Sainsbury's know that the lilklihood of being caught and the police actually booking them is near enough nil. They do however also know that they will be booked for parking at a bus stop even slightly and the chances of that happening are high.</p> <p>So its costs before safety as far as they are concerned. Until I see a major shift in this they get nothing from me. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005&page=2#post-142488 Wed, 12 Feb 2014 20:32:07 +0000 gembo 142488@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@eddieh you are correct. You can padlock to a big sign but that is not to do with the shop. I left my bike outside, next to another bike, trying to buy my son some Granny Smiths (although other apples are available, he ain't keen). Sainsburys used to charge one pound for four but alas now £1.50. However queue went right from front to back of shop so I abandoned my purchase as my bike was not secure. Sainsbury's stock price has I note plummeted since this act. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005&page=2#post-142442 Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:25:45 +0000 kaputnik 142442@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think it's Scottish Power digging up the pavements. Clearly their work couldn't have been done before these new pavements were even built! Or maybe they just got it wrong? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005&page=2#post-142422 Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:19:57 +0000 neddie 142422@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>No cycle parking has been provided outside Sainsburys (in fact I don't see any cycle parking at all).</p> <p>This is in breach of CEC parking standards which state that at least 1 cycle parking space must be provided for the retail part of a development. And depending on the the size of the development, more than 1 cycle space must be provided. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005&page=2#post-142280 Tue, 11 Feb 2014 00:44:22 +0000 Focus 142280@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Had to pass it tonight and yes, you are now forced to use the hatched area.</p> <p>And some idiot still overtook me as I was using it, with traffic coming the other way! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005&page=2#post-142258 Mon, 10 Feb 2014 20:52:25 +0000 gembo 142258@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Pinch point came right out leaving less than two lanes? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005&page=2#post-142256 Mon, 10 Feb 2014 20:50:58 +0000 chdot 142256@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Nah, it'll just be 'utilities'... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005&page=2#post-142255 Mon, 10 Feb 2014 20:46:49 +0000 kaputnik 142255@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>STOP THE PRESSES!</p> <p>Pavement all dug up and road outside Sainsbury's coned off this evening. So that planning triumph didn't even quite make it to a month old. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005&page=2#post-139708 Tue, 14 Jan 2014 09:31:31 +0000 fimm 139708@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The central "lane" is all covered with hatchings that have worn away because people drive over them. </p> <p>Highway Code:<br /> <em>130<br /> Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.<br /> If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.<br /> If the area is marked with chevrons and bordered by solid white lines you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency.</em></p> <p>Fountainbridge has the broken white line - and of course it is necessary to enter the hatched area because of the parked cars. I couldn't see anything in the Highway Code about parking such that you force people into such a hatched area. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139664 Mon, 13 Jan 2014 21:19:53 +0000 chdot 139664@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Had a look yesterday. Nothing parked at bus stop, but demonstrates questionable 'lanes' -</p> <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/11934163725/"><img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3692/11934163725_f9d5b3f486.jpg"></a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139511 Sun, 12 Jan 2014 18:15:42 +0000 chdot 139511@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Started a new thread for canal access discussion -</p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12028" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12028</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139402 Sat, 11 Jan 2014 09:41:33 +0000 gembo 139402@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes kapps I rode through last night at 7 pm heading west. It was one lane west and one lane east because the lane next to the cinema was full of parked cars. Actually, if you park in the carpark and go to the cinema parking is free. It involves a wee footer with your tickets etc so maybe parking on the road is more suitable for some folk?</p> <p>Any racks outside that sainsburys?</p> <p>I cycle past three small sainsburys from west port then Lothian road then this one at viewforth. Only one Tesco on that route. None of them sell the right paneer and only the Tesco sells Weetos and green apples.</p> <p>None of them have bike racks </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139401 Sat, 11 Jan 2014 08:04:27 +0000 fimm 139401@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So should we be complaining to our councillors about this one? I'm kind of in the area and go that way sometimes. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139399 Sat, 11 Jan 2014 01:49:29 +0000 kaputnik 139399@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@crowriver yes of course, but you have to pay. Also, if you ride through there "off peak", you will see Dundee Street is full of cars - I assume people driving to the cinema but refusing to pay charges of car park. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139394 Fri, 10 Jan 2014 21:13:27 +0000 crowriver 139394@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Re: parking, isn't there a great big underground car park just across the street? Of course that's probably too much effort for the average "I'm just popping in" driver. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139354 Fri, 10 Jan 2014 17:32:29 +0000 kaputnik 139354@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I've managed to extract the planning permission that was granted from the bowels of the council planning portal (11/00123/FUL if you're looking for it).</p> <p>From the drawings, it looks like there's meant to be an additional access point right at the top of Gibson Terrace.</p> <p>It's still rubbish though.</p> <p>I've picked out the following from the application's transport statement;</p> <p><em>3.2.2 To the west, Gibson Terrace will offer two vehicular and pedestrian access points, approximately 40 metres and 110 metres south of its junction with Dundee Street.<br /> 3.2.3 Pedestrian access from the north will be enabled via a shared footway/cycleway to the north-east corner of the Student Residences area which will route to the east of the retail facilities located on Dundee Street and then continue south adjacent to the park towards the Union Canal. This link will provide access to both the Student Residences and the Fountainbridge South development adjacent to the site. This will also provide a direct link between the Union Canal and Dundee Street.<br /> 3.2.4 Access from the east (i.e. the Fountainbridge South development) will be enabled via two shared footways/cycleways which are to be routed through the park. Numerous access points will also be enabled into the site from Fountainbridge South from the Union Canal Towpath.</p> <p>3.3 Cycle Facilities<br /> 3.3.1 Cycle access into the Student Residences section of the development will be enabled from all aspects. The vehicular access points off Gibson Terrace will also offer access for cyclists.<br /> 3.3.2 As highlighted above, cycle access from the north will be enabled via a shared footway/cycleway to the north-east corner of the Student Residences area which will route to the east of the retail facilities located on Dundee Street and then continue south adjacent to the park towards the Union Canal. This link will provide access to both the Student Residences and the Fountainbridge South development adjacent to the site. This will also provide a direct cycle link between the Union Canal and Dundee Street.<br /> 3.3.3 Access from the east (i.e. the Fountainbridge South development) will be enabled via two shared footways/cycleways which are to be routed through the park. Numerous access points will also be enabled into the site from the Fountainbridge South site from the Union Canal Towpath. This will provide a direct link into the site from the National Cycle Network (Route 75), which runs along the length of the Union Canal towpath. Surrounding cycle facilities are discussed later within Section 4.<br /> 3.3.4 Internal roads and areas of shared space within the site will enable ease of movement for cyclists, and enable access to areas of cycle parking without the need to dismount.<br /> 3.3.5 The following cycle parking facilities for each land-use will be provided on site in relation to the CEC minimum standards provided within the CEC document ‘Parking Standards for Development Control’:</em></p> <p>I also note that there are only 10 parking spaces, all disabled only, for the 770 student residences.</p> <p>So. In summary.</p> <p>Yes it looks like you can ride the "wrong" way down the road.</p> <p>No, there shouldn't be any parking there as they have explicitely said int he application that parking will be only the 10 disabled spaces. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139341 Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:54:13 +0000 neddie 139341@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm loving all the cars parked on the pavements in pics 1 &amp; 3 of wingpig also.</p> <p>Last time I went down the lane in pic 1, there were approx 8 cars parked on the pavement, with 2 of them completely blocking it.</p> <p>Hopefully, they'll add some yellow lines eventually to discourage, although I'm not banking on it... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139335 Fri, 10 Jan 2014 15:55:06 +0000 kaputnik 139335@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The pavement on Dundee Street in that last photo (or is it Fountainbridge at that point?) has long been used as a car park. Now there's a wide footpath coming down to it I wonder if that will continue to be tolerated. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139334 Fri, 10 Jan 2014 15:49:48 +0000 wingpig 139334@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Looking east from the canal end of Gibson Terrace:<br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/wingpig/11871675364/"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2848/11871675364_1f654da97d_n.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/wingpig/11871675364/">IMAG1132</a> by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/people/wingpig/">wingpig</a>, on Flickr</p> <p>Looking south-east from the Fountainbridge end of Bainfield Whatever:<br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/wingpig/11871243835/"><img src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5519/11871243835_459f7e8716_n.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/wingpig/11871243835/">IMAG1134</a> by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/people/wingpig/">wingpig</a>, on Flickr</p> <p>Looking north from the canal end of Bainfield Whatever:<br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/wingpig/11871241005/"><img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3682/11871241005_6dbc0ac6ca_n.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/wingpig/11871241005/">IMAG1133</a> by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/people/wingpig/">wingpig</a>, on Flickr</p> <p>Fountainbridge or Dundee St:<br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/wingpig/11872084816/"><img src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5485/11872084816_90d1ae1763_n.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/wingpig/11872084816/">IMAG1135</a> by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/people/wingpig/">wingpig</a>, on Flickr</p> <p>There's also the pair of huge gates on Viewforth where there will presumably be some sort of access when the whole thing is finished. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139332 Fri, 10 Jan 2014 15:39:18 +0000 wingpig 139332@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Photos of relevant one-way or no-entry signs currently uploading... wonder if there are any plans to introduce cycle permeability at any of the other entrances?</p> <p>I don't think I saw anything to indicate one-way-ness at the point where you'd join the new road from the canal access point, which might constitute some sort of risk. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139331 Fri, 10 Jan 2014 15:38:22 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 139331@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>There is often no real need for a contra-flow lane. In many cases a well-signed exemption for cyclists can work fine, or a 2-way street with 'No entry for motor vehicles' at one end of the street. However it seems that none of these solutions have been applied in this case.</em>"</p> <p>I think in practice a sign is more easily ignored to shout at a cyclist for going the 'wrong way' than a clearly defined lane. The driver coming the other way doesn't see a sign exempting the cyclists as well - certainly any contraflow lane I've seen only has the sign exempting cyclists at the point they are entering from what would be the wrong direction. So for anyone coming the other way, without the lane, it looks exactly like the cyclist is going the wrong way.</p> <p>That said, I had someone swerve their car directly at me on Bread Street to teach me a lesson, and the contraflow there is a ruddy great big bus lane. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139330 Fri, 10 Jan 2014 15:36:21 +0000 chdot 139330@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"These should be in line with Council policies"</p> <p>As DdF says -</p> <p>"Could be another of the many examples of the planning and transport sections of the council not working properly together." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139329 Fri, 10 Jan 2014 15:33:44 +0000 Morningsider 139329@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>All roads in a private development need to be built in accordance with the roads construction consent granted by the Council. These should be in line with Council policies, which should reflect the best practice set out in Designing Streets. I think Edinburgh is currently revising its policies.</p> <p>The only difference between a private road and a public road is that the council maintains public roads and the relevant landowner maintains private roads. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139325 Fri, 10 Jan 2014 15:20:18 +0000 DdF 139325@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Re. the one-way street...</p> <p>1. I don't know if this is a private road but, even if it is, surely council standards should be applied when planning permission/ road construction consent is granted to the developer. Could be another of the many examples of the planning and transport sections of the council not working properly together. [speculation, obviously]</p> <p>2. The council's existing Local Transport Strategy (originally 2007-2012, but extended to now) states...<br /> <em>One-way streets are sometimes used as a traffic management tool. However they can encourage higher traffic speeds (because of less ‘opposing’ traffic) and volumes. There is usually no reason to impose one-way restrictions on cyclists, and in several European countries (e.g. Switzerland), cyclists are exempted from all one-way streets.<br /> <strong>Policy Cycle 5</strong><br /> There will be a presumption against new one-way streets. However where new one-way streets have to be implemented for general traffic, there will be a presumption in favour of installing contraflow cycle lanes. Where ‘no-entry’ applies for general traffic there will be a presumption to exempt cyclists.</em></p> <p>Note that the 2014-19 LTS is due to be approved next week, with similar intent on exempting cyclists from one-way restrictions, although different wording.<br /> <a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2014/01/edinburgh-local-transport-strategy-2014-19/">http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2014/01/edinburgh-local-transport-strategy-2014-19/</a></p> <p>3. NB - There is often no real need for a contra-flow lane. In many cases a well-signed exemption for cyclists can work fine, or a 2-way street with 'No entry for motor vehicles' at one end of the street. However it seems that none of these solutions have been applied in this case. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139304 Fri, 10 Jan 2014 14:28:01 +0000 chdot 139304@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"so they've created a new one-way street w/out a cycle contra-flow lane? "</p> <p>Yep. I should have taken a photo. </p> <p>Don't know if it's a 'private road'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139302 Fri, 10 Jan 2014 14:23:50 +0000 SRD 139302@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>so they've created a new one-way street w/out a cycle contra-flow lane? ARGH. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139299 Fri, 10 Jan 2014 14:00:19 +0000 neddie 139299@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The radii of the corners of the pavement build-out outside Sainsbury's have been left very large i.e. they are not tight corners.</p> <p>This enables cars turning left into Gibson Tce to do so at high speed. Similarly, otherwise-law-abiding <strike>boy racers</strike> motorists can charge out of KiwkFit at high speed, as happened to me <em>as </em>I was taking the photos in the OP! Also, it deflects the pedestrian desire-line to cross Gibson Tce &amp; reduces sightlines, making it more difficult to cross.</p> <p>All of which is contrary to Designing Streets (page 36): <a href="http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2010/03/22120652/6" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2010/03/22120652/6</a></p> <p>It seems that no developer, nor CEC, follow the guidance in Designing Streets. Perhaps this is something we should mention in every email to councillors? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12005#post-139282 Fri, 10 Jan 2014 12:57:49 +0000 chdot 139282@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Can now access the canal towpath via Gibson Crescent on the left - handy for those coming up the underpass towards Tollcross etc."</p> <p>With all the previous mentions of 'new access to canal' I had assumed it was at end of Murdoch Terrace!</p> <p>Not even at end of Gibson!</p> <p>I got here after going the wrong way along a new one-way street!</p> <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/11855926904/"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7371/11855926904_941baa7743.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/11855926904/">Joined-up-thinking</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/11869288675/"><img src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5508/11869288675_810e1ba984.jpg"></a> </p>