http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: bike lane rules/etiquette advice? en Sat, 27 Jun 2026 07:29:37 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-696 Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:55:09 +0000 donnymurdo 696@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And Finally ... </p> <p>Part of a cyclists task is to choose when and when not to use cycle lanes. Given the constantly changing traffic situation, bear in mind that sometimes a cyclelane can be a benefit and sometimes it can be a hinderance to your safety. Think more in terms of your primary and your secondary road positions in relation to the flow of the traffic. John Franklin in Cyclecraft 2007 Fourth Edition explains this well on pages 87 to 90. Carefully choosing and planning your road position I think, simplifies many road situations as it places you in the best position on the road from which you can make your next move. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-628 Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:44:56 +0000 SRD 628@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Even the difference between England and Scotland is telling for me. I cycled for 10 years in Oxford - all over the city and county - and could not tell you if there were bike lanes or not. There are enough bikes that cars pay attention to them (although I did get knocked into the middle of the road by a car door opening). But here, I like to have cycle lanes -- but I just do not understand why cars are allowed to park on them. Baffling. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-627 Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:39:01 +0000 Kim 627@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sadly we don't have the infrastructure (or the commitment) need for the Dutch &amp; Danish model, so we have to make do with "vehicular cycling". I am all in favour of cycle training and helping people to make an assessment based on actual needs and conditions. :-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-625 Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:33:30 +0000 LaidBack 625@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Since when where bike lanes safer?</em></p> <p>They aren't - but outwith this forum I'm sure people think they are. </p> <p>Taking primary position does need a degree of confidence and of course is not (?) used in the countries we often cite as role models. This Dutch &amp; Danish model is what many think may attract more people to use bikes in a relaxed way. It's also the model that New York seems to be using.</p> <p>In Copenhagen (eg) cyclists always keep pavement side and aren't expected to behave like a powered vehicle. The bike filters often move with pedestrian flow.<br /> These countries also make it the drivers obligation to see cyclists and other road users and would never use such verdicts as 'a momentary lapse of concentration' to excuse a death.</p> <p>Overtaking long lines of slow /stopped traffic (eg Melville Drive) on right hand side is safer providing you have lights and know what you are doing.<br /> However I guarantee that some may think that this is cycling dangerously and we should use the faded bike lane (assuming someone isn't driving or parked on it).</p> <p>Bike training (as I'm sure you'll agree) allows people to make an assessment based on actual needs and conditions. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-619 Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:54:51 +0000 Kim 619@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Since when where bike lanes safer? The reasons given for moving into primary are:<br /> * to maximise the chances of you being seen and your speed being appreciated<br /> * improve your own visibility of the conditions ahead<br /> * provide an enhanced zone of safety should a driver cut across your path<br /> * to help dissuade any following driver from overtaking and then turning left.</p> <p>Makes sense to me, bike lanes are not the safe area they often projected as being. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-618 Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:45:21 +0000 LaidBack 618@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>move into a primary position if you see a vehicle approaching the junction from the side road</em></p> <p>Even if (particularly if?) someone has painted a bike lane over junction! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-613 Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:17:04 +0000 Kim 613@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Good point Arellcat, I have the fourth edition (2007), it is in Chapter 8 "Everyday movements" where he recommends when approaching side roads that you move into a primary position if you see a vehicle approaching the junction from the side road. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-609 Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:47:08 +0000 Arellcat 609@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Kim, did you mean the bit where Franklin talks about traffic-jamming and filtering? My copy is from 1997 and filtering at junctions is on page 129. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-606 Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:03:39 +0000 Dave 606@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>For what it's worth, from a more pragmatic perspective almost everyone who dies in urban cycling incidents seems to have been smeared at a junction by a left-turning vehicle (over 80% of deaths in London in 2009, for example).</p> <p>So this is one case where the numbers indicate, whatever the law says, that it might be wise to exercise caution!</p> <p>That said, I do go up the left of queues if I judge it to be OK. Tricky call. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-602 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:25:01 +0000 Kim 602@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Aye as recommended on page 101 of <a href="http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/">Cyclecraft</a>... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-596 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 21:46:42 +0000 LaidBack 596@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I cycle on Forrest Road everyday and cars are itching to swing(!) left down Candlemaker Row. Of course if I have space I move out to right after checking over shoulder. Otherwise I keep going (with brakes at ready) as they have no 'right' to cut across the bike lane (or toot at pedestrians crossing either - see other thread).<br /> This of course is slightly different as bike lane is actually painted.<br /> Principal is the same though as they are changing direction and must check. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-592 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:59:11 +0000 SRD 592@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Kirst, thanks for the advice. Yes, that would normally be my approach too. but in this instance there was a long queue of stationary cars at a red light, and yards and yards of clear cycle lane leading to the ASL. Sadly a very unusual situation! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-589 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 17:30:22 +0000 Kirst 589@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My answer would be don't use the bike lane if you're going straight on and others might turn left across you - move into the main stream of the traffic. Bus-only lanes stop before junctions so that traffic can get to the right lane for turning. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-578 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:09:37 +0000 SRD 578@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks all for advice (and sympathy!). Starting and stopping is indeed a challenge, but I also find that other bikes undertake me thinking I will be slow out of intersections, only for me to have to brake for them (bah! - don't underestimate ladies on overloaded bikes). But to pick up Kim's example/analogy, if I was a bus in a bus lane, would I have slowed/stopped to let car in queue on right turn left? Not sure about that one....evidence rather suggests not. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-576 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:59:52 +0000 LaidBack 576@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not an expert! Basic rule is I think...</p> <p><em>Any vehicle changing lanes / direction has to check around / in mirror to ensure way is clear before doing so...</em></p> <p>But...<br /> One of these situations where I look at number of cars in queue and decide whether I can make it through on bike lane before they move or whether it's better to be out on road to the right of them. If I'm to right I can see oncoming traffic too and maintain road speed knowing I should be visible in driver's right hand mirror. </p> <p>The counter argument is 'strength in numbers'. More bikes in bike lane then more attention paid to them. You use vehicle in front to 'prove' route. (Not highway code as it is in effect a type of 'tailgating'!) Of course when someone ahead turns off without signalling not so easy.<br /> Cars did right thing to wait, but you had to anticipate they may not have thus slowing you up with your '30lb passenger'.</p> <p>Having done a bit of the family ferrying myself I know how you feel. Can be quite a work out stopping and starting. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-575 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:59:02 +0000 Kim 575@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>To follow up on Anth's comment, <a href="http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070332">Rule 182</a> tell drivers that "Do not overtake just before you turn left and watch out for traffic coming up on your left before you make the turn" and Rule 183 "give way to any vehicles using a bus lane, cycle lane or tramway from either direction".</p> <p>Also in the rules for cyclist: <a href="http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069837">Rule 72</a> "On the left. When approaching a junction on the left, watch out for vehicles turning in front of you, out of or into the side road. <strong>Just before you turn, check for undertaking cyclists or motorcyclists. Do not ride on the inside of vehicles signalling or slowing down to turn left</strong>." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-574 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:56:34 +0000 SRD 574@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks. Next time I stop (and just hope there's not a gung-ho cyclist behind me with bad brakes...). Of course this sort of problem occurs very rarely because the cars are almost always lined up so as to block the cycle lane. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-573 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:51:00 +0000 Kim 573@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If I understand this correctly the question is about overtaking cars on the left while using a cycle lane. First off Rule 163 states that "stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left". So it could be argued that the cyclist in the cycle lane are a separate queue of traffic which is moving more quickly than the cars queued to the right. </p> <p>However, Rule 167 states <strong>DO NOT</strong> overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. So if the drivers to the right are signalling a left turn, then <em>you should not overtake</em>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-572 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:48:39 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 572@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And on the legality of undertaking...</p> <p><a href="http://www.citycycling.co.uk/issue44/issue44page41.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.citycycling.co.uk/issue44/issue44page41.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-571 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:48:07 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 571@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It depends (how much of a lawyer's answer is that, the training runs deep...). </p> <p>If the car had been behind you then passing you, but had not completed a pass with sufficient distance to allow the turn without causing you to brake, then the car should wait for you.</p> <p>If you had started behind the car and were overtaking on the left (perfectly legal, especially with a cycle lane) then the onus is on you as they had priority being ahead of you. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-565 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:07:51 +0000 chdot 565@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So you are asking if car slightly ahead of you 'should' have let you through.</p> <p>I think the answer is yes.</p> <p>However that raises the question of what cars are supposed to do if there is a continuous stream of bikes.</p> <p>I don't know.</p> <p>But I suspect there are 'Highway Code experts' on this forum who do. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-564 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:03:25 +0000 SRD 564@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sorry if that wasn't clear, I didn't pass the bike. Bike in front turned left w/out signal, I kept going straight, cars then turned left. </p> <p>My query was actually about the cars which were signalling to turn left. Should I have slowed to let them turn across me? Or do we always have right of way? (Yes, I was probably going a little too fast, but was trying to get to front of traffic). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-563 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:55:55 +0000 chdot 563@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Do you mean bike in front wanted to turn right?</p> <p>Did you pass it on left or right?</p> <p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/yjc4l45">There is an ASL box there</a> so other bike should have been to right if turning right.</p> <p>If other bike was turning right and you passed it on left <em>I </em>think that was correct.</p> <p>Most cars are more cautious when they see small passengers.</p> <p>Maybe you were too close to the vehicle in front...? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=121#post-561 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:40:38 +0000 SRD 561@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not sure whether to post here or in commuting but here goes -- this morning I was cycling along Grange road into intersection with Causewayside. There is a nice long cyclelane going into this intersection and for once, no cars are sitting on it. I am following another bike at speed. As we get up close to intersection, the light goes green and I notice the front two cars are signalling to turn left onto causewayside, but I am going straight through. Bike in front of me keeps going. I keep going, then discover bike in front is turning (but didn't signal). Should I have slammed on brakes? Cars obviously aware of bike lane and us (unusually), and waited for me to clear. I was basically alongside the second car in the queue and moving fast when the light changed - bike in front alongside front car. And I had 30lb+ of small person on back. Obviously, if I'd been at front of the queue I would have gone, but this called for lightening decision. I kept going, but felt like I shouldn't have, although I don't think it was actually unsafe to do so. </p>