http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: More cycle death "justice" en Mon, 18 May 2026 12:25:29 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12124#post-147836 Fri, 04 Apr 2014 20:23:25 +0000 le_soigneur 147836@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Here is a civil case counter-point <a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/cyclist-struck-by-police-car-wins-compensation-1-3365037">judgement</a> (shows the difference a judge instead of a jury can make).<br /> <blockquote><em>The court ruled it was the responsibility of the police driver, who was on his way to a shooting in Hackney with three other officers, to pass Mr MacLeod safely, and the cyclist could not be criticised for failing to take measures to avoid the impact.</p> <p>The officer, who entered the roundabout at 55mph, was driving at an excessive speed in circumstances where he could not bring the car to a halt in time to avoid the accident and contrary to the Met’s own policy, the judge said.</p> <p>Sitting in London, the judge said: “The manner of his driving plainly fell below an acceptable standard.</p> <p>“His speed was high and consistent with a desire to get to the rendezvous point as his priority rather than safely</em>.”</blockquote><br /> The 3 police car officers seem to have done a plebgate on their <a href="http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article4054082.ece">evidence</a>:<br /> <blockquote><em>Julian Waters, a Metropolitan Police barrister, said Mr MacLeod had emerged from a side-road and into the path of the car, a theory which was backed up by the evidence of three of those who were in the vehicle. </p> <p>In his judgment, Judge McKenna said the officers’ statements had been written in the company of each other and that their “perception as to the claimant’s direction of travel is mistaken”.</em><br /> </blockquote> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12124#post-142485 Wed, 12 Feb 2014 18:53:24 +0000 wishicouldgofaster 142485@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Would such a judgement be likely to affect any insurance compensation payment? My gut feel is that it would, making a tragic situation even worse.</p> <p>Truly astounding that a driver can be found not guilty when clearly causing an accident due to not driving properly. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12124#post-142449 Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:50:50 +0000 Stickman 142449@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>God, that was a horrible and depressing read. </p> <p>As Roibeard says, the court reports are distressing. The Beyond the Kerb article should be read though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12124#post-142412 Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:16:35 +0000 Roibeard 142412@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I hesitate to include this post, as it is only going to upset folk and encourage despair or futile anger. Yet this is the world we live in.</p> <p>So, with fair warning, and only for those of a strong disposition, the Southampton Cycling Campaign attended and made some <a href="http://www.southamptoncyclingcampaign.org.uk/2014/news/1888/">trial notes</a>.</p> <p>As it isn't a law, the jury was directed to ignore the Highway Code's "If you are dazzled by bright sunlight, slow down and if necessary, stop." <a href="https://www.gov.uk/driving-adverse-weather-conditions-226-to-237/hot-weather-237">237</a></p> <p>Courtesy of <a href="http://beyondthekerb.wordpress.com/2014/02/12/futility/">Beyond the Kerb </a>for highlighting this reporting, and for more detailed analysis than I would have had the stomach to compose.</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12124#post-141236 Wed, 29 Jan 2014 19:09:58 +0000 allebong 141236@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>you can't seriously ask people to slow down or stop when they can't see anything, can you?</em></p> <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMlxvx2irAE" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMlxvx2irAE</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12124#post-141231 Wed, 29 Jan 2014 18:45:50 +0000 crowriver 141231@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ah, but we have corroboration via witness testimony that none of the drivers at that particular place and time could see where they were going. Therefore it's nobody's fault that a cyclist was killed. I mean, you can't seriously ask people to slow down or stop when they can't see anything, can you? Someone else might run into the back of them. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12124#post-141228 Wed, 29 Jan 2014 18:23:10 +0000 Stickman 141228@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Appears that the "I couldn't see where I was going " defence has worked again.<br /> </em></p> <p>Indeed. "I was driving with my eyes closed" is functionally identical, yet presumably would not be a valid defence? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12124#post-141226 Wed, 29 Jan 2014 18:14:01 +0000 PS 141226@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There seems to be some inconsistency between:<br /> <em>Mr Petterson, of Waterhouse Lane, Southampton, told the court he stopped his Ford Transit minibus after he heard a bang and his wing mirror "slammed against the van"</em><br /> and<br /> <em>Mr Petterson told police he had been driving slowly as the glare of the sun had made visibility poor.</em></p> <p>Being blinded by the sun seems to be an automatic get out of jail card nowadays, presumably because juries can see themselves doing exactly the same thing as the driver. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12124#post-141224 Wed, 29 Jan 2014 18:08:12 +0000 crowriver 141224@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's another 'blinded by the light' killing I see.</p> <p>Clearly it is unsafe bordering on suicidal for cyclists to be out on 'busy commuter roads' when the sun is shining. Or when it's dim and overcast. Or raining. Or foggy. Or dark. </p> <p>In fact cyclists had better just stay off the roads altogether, they are likely to be killed you know. Especially when there's a perfectly good grass verge alongside to use instead. Jurors across the country will agree with this commonsense approach. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12124#post-141221 Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:42:28 +0000 Min 141221@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, after reading the story more carefully it does look like one of those multiple "didn't see him" moments that makes it even more okay instead of less. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12124#post-141220 Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:38:10 +0000 holisticglint 141220@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@min - Minibus wing mirror hit cyclists head (probably fatally) the merc then ran over the body (probably causing rib fractures) </p> <p>As far as I can tell these are the undisputed facts of the case along with the fact that the driver could not see what was in front of him and _still_ he was found not guilty of being careless.</p> <p>Those planning a murder should take note... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12124#post-141216 Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:26:19 +0000 Min 141216@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Oh you could well be right. :-/ I am confused as to what is going on now. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12124#post-141214 Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:25:36 +0000 holisticglint 141214@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@AKen - Correct it was the minibus driver </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12124#post-141213 Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:24:53 +0000 holisticglint 141213@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Appears that the "I couldn't see where I was going " defence has worked again.</p> <p>How is it ok to drive at more than walking pace when you cannot see what is in front of you ?</p> <p>I suspect that anyone who actually did slow down and got crashed into would be done for careless driving as the witness on the moped suggests</p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25918390" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25918390</a></p> <p>I assume he was brought in by the defence. In a sane world this guy would have been a prosecution witness... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12124#post-141212 Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:23:07 +0000 AKen 141212@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The driver cleared was not the driver of the Mercedes though - if I read things correctly. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12124#post-141209 Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:15:01 +0000 Min 141209@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-25949342" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-25949342</a></p> <p>It was a hit and run though the driver later owned up and:-</p> <p><em>A post-mortem examination found Mr Irving, from Wimborne, suffered a head injury consistent with being hit by a wing mirror.</em></p> <p><em>The Mercedes had "considerable damage" to its underside, including torn fabric and signs of impact with a human body, a forensic examiner told the court.</em></p> <p>Guess the verdict. </p> <p>Go on, guess. </p>