http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Cyclist, aged 78, dies after being hit by car in Edinburgh en Wed, 13 May 2026 03:19:39 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-144817 Sat, 08 Mar 2014 11:42:13 +0000 Tulyar 144817@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This may be useful - Rhia at CTC/CDF prompted a legal specialist to pen this and it is very well set out.</p> <p><a href="http://www.cyclistsdefencefund.org.uk/section-39-road-traffic-act-1988-and-judicial-review-boosting-campaigning-toolkit-frustrated-cyclist" rel="nofollow">http://www.cyclistsdefencefund.org.uk/section-39-road-traffic-act-1988-and-judicial-review-boosting-campaigning-toolkit-frustrated-cyclist</a></p> <p>So if clearly we have crashes happening and no apparent delivery of an investigation or action to deal with the issue, there is a route to follow. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-144320 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 16:56:44 +0000 minus six 144320@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The wreaths to commemorate the dead cyclist have been laid at the junction of the B800 and the minor road that links to Queen Elizabeth yards / Standingstane Road. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-144263 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 11:42:37 +0000 Tulyar 144263@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Chdot Thanks for setting out the Council position of Section 39. If this is being done then perhaps thay can follow the example of the Rail and Air crash investigations and publish these reports, so that there is a wider and open understanding about the causes of crashes and measures needed to mitigate them. After all Rail operations have achieved 'Vision Zero' by their meticulous work to learn from incidents and prevent crashes - whilst thousands die on the roads.</p> <p>rodm - read what I wrote and I think we have crossed wires sent DM reply - Check the way your first posting reads, as the shortened message can perhaps be read as "The driver is guilty" especially by someone with an ill-informed preconception on the civil liability concept. </p> <p>The death occurred because the driver was in a car and therefore had a duty of care in using the car, ie a liability, I did not say he caused the collision, but the use of a car made the outcome fatal. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-144245 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 10:12:26 +0000 rodm 144245@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Tulyar,</p> <p>"the driver isn't responsible for causing the collision - that's guilt, and should not be assumed</p> <p>The driver is liable for the outcome being fatal because they were driving a car and that's what strict liability is about."</p> <p>Just to clarify.</p> <p>Guilt relates to criminal law. Stricter liability would be applied only in Civil Law cases for compensation. </p> <p>The driver would be presumed to be liable for having caused the collision unless he could prove otherwise. This would allow the civil claim to be progressed without having to wait for the outcome of any criminal investigation by the PF/Crown Office. This can sometimes take over a year before detailed information can be made available to the civil lawyers. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-143222 Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:45:07 +0000 chdot 143222@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Process</p> <p>"</p> <p>The 1998 Road Traffic Act, Section 39, puts a Statutory Duty on the local authority to undertake studies into road collisions, and to take steps both to reduce and prevent collisions.</p> <p>The wording of the act is :</p> <p>Section 39.(3) “Each local authority -<br /> (a) Must carry out studies into accidents arising out of the use of vehicles on roads or part of roads, other than trunk roads, within their area,<br /> (b) Must in the light of those studies, take such measures as appear to the authority to be appropriate to prevent such accidents.....................<br /> (c) In constructing new roads, must take such measures as appear to the authority to be appropriate to reduce the possibilities of such accidents when the roads come in to use.”</p> <p>The Council discharges its statutory duties under the 1998 Road Traffic Act through the production of the Edinburgh Road Safety Plan. In 2010 the City of Edinburgh Council and its key partners of Lothian and Borders Police, NHS Lothian, and Lothian and Borders Fire and Rescue Service developed the Road Safety Plan (Plan) for Edinburgh to 2020. Streets Ahead, Road Safety in Edinburgh is the resulting partnership formed by these agencies to tackle road safety in the city.</p> <p>As part of the Plan the Council’s Road Safety Team carries out an investigation in partnership with Police Scotland whenever a fatal collision occurs on our roads. All fatal road collisions are attended by the Police Crash Investigation Unit and an experienced road traffic officer is assigned as the investigating officer. Detailed measurements are made at the locus and witness statements etc are collected. On completion of the investigation the Police will recommend action as appropriate, which in some cases may lead to prosecution.</p> <p>When the Police investigations are fully completed a site meeting is arranged which will be attended by the investigating Police Officer, Police Traffic Management, the Council’s Road Safety Team, the Local Area Roads Manager and any other persons deemed to be relevant. In the case of a cycle collision the Council’s Cycling Officer will also be invited to attend.</p> <p>At the meeting the investigating officer will be able to describe the events leading to the crash and the group will be able to analyse the locus to determine if any follow up action is necessary. The crash history and any recent road changes can be considered at this time.</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-143079 Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:47:07 +0000 Dave 143079@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Looks like we'll have to agree to differ, sg37409 </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-143077 Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:35:01 +0000 sg37409 143077@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Undoubtedly, theres tons of cases where the courts have been too lenient (in our views) on cases such as this. But to pull in tired mason jibes into this is crap. The EEN article has removed the comments now, this was worthy of a comment on that page. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-143040 Thu, 20 Feb 2014 08:11:59 +0000 crowriver 143040@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/son-tells-of-stumbling-on-dad-s-crash-scene-1-3311717" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/son-tells-of-stumbling-on-dad-s-crash-scene-1-3311717</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-143036 Thu, 20 Feb 2014 00:58:24 +0000 Dave 143036@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sadly, we have a pretty dire judicial system - I think on balance that I may have been overgenerous by limiting myself to 'perhaps', but no doubt we'll see in due course. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-143009 Wed, 19 Feb 2014 18:46:50 +0000 sg37409 143009@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Nice one 3fromleith. They make a lot of accidents on the gary mccourt/audrey fife/etc threads. </p> <p>Dave - thats a pretty crass comment. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-142989 Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:53:32 +0000 Dave 142989@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A mason - perhaps the police and magistrate will be a bit more sympathetic to the deceased than is usually the case? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-142988 Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:39:07 +0000 threefromleith 142988@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I've had a go at the EEN on Twitter. Gareth Edwards (@Gedwardsistaken) claims there are no cycling death stories with comments allowed on them, but I've just had to correct him in that the two related to Mr Fairley are still allowing comments. These should be closed shortly.</p> <p>Apparently if we see any cycling death stories with comments allowed on them from now on, we can tweet him to get them taken off.</p> <p>(He claims comments are only sometimes accidentally allowed in an 'upload error', but I'm sceptical as they're never accidentally acticated on any other death story) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-142976 Wed, 19 Feb 2014 13:35:46 +0000 neddie 142976@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Wow, the comments on the original EEN story have reached a sickening new low:</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/dead-cyclist-named-as-george-fairley-1-3310233" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/dead-cyclist-named-as-george-fairley-1-3310233</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-142969 Wed, 19 Feb 2014 13:14:05 +0000 SRD 142969@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/son-tells-of-stumbling-on-dad-s-crash-scene-1-3311717" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/son-tells-of-stumbling-on-dad-s-crash-scene-1-3311717</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-142937 Wed, 19 Feb 2014 07:36:03 +0000 Tulyar 142937@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Rod - the driver isn't responsible for causing the collision - that's guilt, and should not be assumed </p> <p>The driver is liable for the outcome being fatal because they were driving a car and that's what strict liability is about. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-142917 Tue, 18 Feb 2014 17:24:00 +0000 rodm 142917@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>You can support the Road Share Campaign by signing the <a href="http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/pass-a-member-s-bill-for-strict-liability-between-motorists-cyclists-and-pedestrians">online petition</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-142916 Tue, 18 Feb 2014 17:22:10 +0000 rodm 142916@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If Stricter/presumed liability in Civil Law as per the Road Share <a href="http://www.cycling-accident-compensation.co.uk/strict-liability.aspx">campaign</a> was operating as per nearly every other country in Europe, then in this case the driver of the car would "presumed" to be responsible for causing the collision unless he could prove otherwise. This would allow the loved ones of the deceased to immediately pursue a claim for compensation irrespective of any Criminal prosecution which at present seems unlikely given that there don't appear to be any witnesses. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-142915 Tue, 18 Feb 2014 17:18:39 +0000 gkgk 142915@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Mainstream Media... ...have put us where we are."</p> <p>Easy to blame the dumb media and quite right. But they would not get far in their victim blaming if none of us had helmets. You read of joggers and pedestrians getting run over but paragraph 2 isn't always the helmet status one. Whether it is or isn't a worthwhile trade-off is a different (well-worn) topic. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&page=2#post-142914 Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:59:40 +0000 PS 142914@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Why say "everyday clothing" when it would presumably be just as easy (and more helpful for witnesses to know who the police were talking about) to describe what he was wearing, like "a dark green jumper and jeans", a "pinstripe suit", "tweed plus-fours", whatever it was? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240#post-142912 Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:48:08 +0000 chdot 142912@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I assume that as it is an appeal for witnesses"</p> <p>Perhaps, but for most people this (from top of this thread) means something different -</p> <p>"</p> <p>Sgt Ross Drummond said: "We have been unable to trace any witnesses to this accident.</p> <p>"I am appealing for anyone who saw either the man on his bike - he was wearing every day clothing and was not in specialised cycling clothes - or the car around this time.</p> <p>"</p> <p>It seems that Sgt Drummond thinks that anything other than 'full Lycra' is not "specialised cycling clothes" - which is probably quite good but adds to general public confusion about what cyclists are 'supposed to wear'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240#post-142910 Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:38:41 +0000 stiltskin 142910@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think people are over-reacting a bit on the clothing. I assume that as it is an appeal for witnesses they are trying to jog people's memories by describing the victim </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240#post-142902 Tue, 18 Feb 2014 14:13:43 +0000 Nelly 142902@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"How have we managed to buy into this miserable status quo?"</p> <p>we have not, but the Mainstream Media, aided I am afraid by much of the police and judicial system, have put us where we are.</p> <p>The media outlets also perpetuate the stupid victim blaming by mentioning helmets and hi viz at every opportunity.</p> <p>Until people start getting jailed regularly for killing people on the streets - the media wont change the line. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240#post-142900 Tue, 18 Feb 2014 14:12:31 +0000 kaputnik 142900@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What does it matter what he was wearing?!</p> <p>It comes across a bit like "<em>oh but he was asking for it, wasn't he? I mean he only had on a tabard and a helmet*, where was his dayglo survival suit?</em>"</p> <p>* like we told him to. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240#post-142893 Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:55:40 +0000 Dave 142893@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>After the experience of riding in Cuba, I feel quite embarrassed for the UK and its frankly weird (and sadly all-pervading) obsession with how much blame can be piled onto the people who are killed on our roads.</p> <p>Driving a car and not crashing into things, even if they aren't painted up like a dustbin man, is EASY. </p> <p>How have we managed to buy into this miserable status quo? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240#post-142888 Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:26:00 +0000 wishicouldgofaster 142888@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I had a right strop at one of my colleagues yesterday for victim blaming by practically alluding to the cyclist being partially at fault for not wearing high viz or a helmet. </p> <p>We now know the poor man was but it seems crazy to me that people these days are now ignoring the main issue for road death being bad driving which regardless of anything else is causing these accidents. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240#post-142886 Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:08:32 +0000 chdot 142886@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/dead-cyclist-named-as-george-fairley-1-3310233" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/dead-cyclist-named-as-george-fairley-1-3310233</a></p> <p>"<br /> Fairley was wearing a cycling helmet and high-viz tabard but otherwise was in every day clothing.</p> <p>"</p> <p>Didn't it just say 'normal clothing' yesterday?? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240#post-142866 Tue, 18 Feb 2014 08:57:56 +0000 minus six 142866@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I made a fillthathole request a couple of years ago regarding poor road surfacing on the B800, across from the entrance to the Dundas parks golf course.</p> <p>The road surfacing is patchwork rough and forces cyclists further out into the middle of the lane, just at the point where motorists are extra keen to put the foot down on the way down the hill.</p> <p>I pointed out that this represented hazardous conditions for cyclists.</p> <p>Nothing was ever done about it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240#post-142865 Mon, 17 Feb 2014 23:32:00 +0000 chdot 142865@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Jim Orr (@CllrJimOrr)<br /> 17/02/2014 22:26<br /> @CyclingEdin @AGShieldsLibDem @BCCletts Police r investigating &amp; will report in few weeks or sooner if urgent. Email me if u want more done.</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240#post-142847 Mon, 17 Feb 2014 18:26:01 +0000 duncans 142847@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On the plus side, the FRC briefing I saw last week showed some improvements at the North end as far as echline roundabout, with a wider path over the A90. I was also led to believe that the problems at the pinch point outside tesco would be resolved.</p> <p>At the South end, the new junction with the housing scheme in Kirkliston features cycle lanes that you can't get to when traffic is quueued, which lead to pinch points (aka 'safety' islands). Assertiveness required to avoid being squished, assuming drivers co-operate. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240#post-142845 Mon, 17 Feb 2014 18:14:47 +0000 chdot 142845@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Alastair Shields (@AGShieldsLibDem)<br /> 17/02/2014 08:46<br /> This is very sad news and a strong message for all B800 users to be cautious at all times. Thoughts with the cyclist's family.</p> <p>"</p> <p>"<br /> Nice Wee Cod (@NiceWeeCod)<br /> 17/02/2014 15:43<br /> @AGShieldsLibDem @CyclingEdin strong message to fix incomplete B800 path with dangerous entry and exit across two lanes travelling south.</p> <p>" </p>