http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: 51% of cargo in European cities could be delivered by bicycle en Wed, 01 Jul 2026 16:44:56 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246&page=2#post-370826 Fri, 29 Sep 2023 22:22:24 +0000 LaidBack 370826@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Can't find the other cargobike threads.</p> <p>Anyway this is either good news or a cover for business as usual!<br /> <a href="https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2023/09/28/toyota-france-to-sell-e-cargobikes-in-170-dealerships-from-october/?sh=18ad71fa72a7" rel="nofollow">https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2023/09/28/toyota-france-to-sell-e-cargobikes-in-170-dealerships-from-october/?sh=18ad71fa72a7</a></p> <p>Douze isn't a brand I know. Not all bakfiets are easy to ride. France though starts with a slight liking for les velos. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246&page=2#post-358267 Wed, 02 Feb 2022 11:47:51 +0000 LaidBack 358267@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>DHL have pulled their cargobike trial in Edinburgh. Model supplied by EAV in England. No idea what that means - is that it's commitment over, or will it redeploy in another city?<br /> Success rating for a large company will partly hinge upon social media buzz too.<br /> FedEx trikes still going as far as I know. Think they maybe have 2. Compare and contrast with vast numbers of vans and we can see that things aren't loaded towards pedal power. (Saw all electric DHL van in Glasgow at weekend.)</p> <p><a href="https://twitter.com/WHitchhike/status/1488443603445817352?t=QgxhwcZRH1S2zvqtSofz7g&amp;s=19" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/WHitchhike/status/1488443603445817352?t=QgxhwcZRH1S2zvqtSofz7g&amp;s=19</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246&page=2#post-353487 Fri, 06 Aug 2021 18:28:19 +0000 chdot 353487@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“thank you campaigners!”</p> <p>Well yes</p> <p>At least one on here I think. </p> <p>Was initially about walking (to Sciennes) more than cycling (I think?)</p> <p>10 years? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246&page=2#post-353484 Fri, 06 Aug 2021 16:08:38 +0000 LaidBack 353484@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Dave @crowriver et al</p> <p>All good points. When we sold our first Bakfiets in 2013 people were just looking for a manual local journey one (electric was retrofit then). No-one thought of a cargobike really carrying gallons of soup etc back then and models sold without finance at around £2k or less. Was maybe in same slot as a tandem or Yuba longtail. </p> <p>UA then came in around then too with a choice between 'e' and 'non e' offerings. Prices climbed steeply from around £4k to close on £6k now and without EST Interest Free Finance we would not sell as many. (ScotGreen initiative I think?)<br /> In comparison with EVs though our sales are tiny. Other shops doing their best too I'm sure - eg Tern GSD been big seller from Harts and Bike Coop. Harts also has the new Gazelle Maki bakfiets - not seen one yet but it's good news if it helps increase the market and normality of family cargo at least.</p> <p>Some families still go for manual ones though. Routes near Meadows are improving with new crossing to Grange (thank you campaigners!).</p> <p><a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/66067108@N08/51217066709/in/datetaken/" title="Azor Bakfiets 8 speed Nexus"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51217066709_4a463eb638.jpg" alt="Azor Bakfiets 8 speed Nexus" /></a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246&page=2#post-353468 Fri, 06 Aug 2021 13:22:30 +0000 crowriver 353468@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Dave, finance for motor vehicles is a huge industry. It's all about leasing these days, started with commercial fleets now pretty much the norm for civvies too instead of the loan/purchase/depreciation shuffle.</p> <p>Finance for bikes less well developed as historically a much cheaper item than motors. Needs developing for sure.</p> <p>However momentum is with financial industry behemoth that makes a nice wee earner from vehicles (loans and leasing). Read something recently that investors can't be bothered providing cash for green business startups because they're too busy making money from vehicle finance.</p> <p>Shows that once it gets to a certain size, "the market" skews how our economy and society is shaped - often mostly in its own interests and according to its own logic (see St James centre for a local example). Needs government intervention and regulation to change things to benefit society as a whole. Little sign that current neoliberal SNP administration will change things too much, nascent deal with the Greens notwithstanding. As for the Tories at UK level, they were only stopped from building a road tunnel under Stonehenge by the courts, so I wouldn't hold out too much hope there. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-353448 Fri, 06 Aug 2021 08:05:00 +0000 Dave 353448@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Electric vans wouldn't be so compelling if we evened out the subsidies and incentives. It's a bit mad that it's cheaper to get a 2 ton electric van to use for the same deliveries that an e-cargo bike can do. The finance options need to be there as well as everything else. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-353446 Fri, 06 Aug 2021 02:07:41 +0000 crowriver 353446@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Laidback, it may well have been a Nissan e-van the Hermes guy was unloading from, judging by the pics I just searched up. As you say mix of bikes and EVs probably the way things will be. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-353444 Thu, 05 Aug 2021 23:22:50 +0000 LaidBack 353444@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thread started 7 years ago.</p> <p>Since then cargobikes have developed a lot but so have e-vans.</p> <p>Two businesses we've supplied Urban Arrow cargobikes to have also got hold of Nissan Leaf vans. The businesses like vans as the rider/driver is enclosed and capacity is greater. We have sold bikes the size of small vans but leasing a van is cheaper and e-vans will have access to LEZs.</p> <p>For many items though bikes are the way to go. Future is probably a mix of both. Dropping VAT on e-cargo is a start if we want transport which is lighter on roads and extractive industry (lithium). UK gov unlikely to do but a greenish admin in Scotland could consider.<br /> Know England has pockets of greeness but Nissan plant needs supporting as was at risk fromm bxt. Taxpayer support towards EV is not so good for bike options.<br /> If we made e-cargo bikes here then it would help. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-353433 Thu, 05 Aug 2021 15:13:54 +0000 crowriver 353433@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not seen many cargo bikes delivering round my way (not counting the Pashley Pronto piloted by yours truly with shopping and various bulky items on board). I have noticed our local Hermes guy has a shiny new van, but it is about half the size of his old one. More discreet, possibly more efficient, certainly easier to get parked. I suspect this is the way things are going. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-353427 Thu, 05 Aug 2021 10:51:27 +0000 gembo 353427@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>They do @fimm. Bacon butties from whichever vendor they can park directly outside? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-353423 Thu, 05 Aug 2021 09:17:50 +0000 fimm 353423@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From that article:<br /> <blockquote>. They found the cargo bikes saved nearly four tonnes of CO2 across the period, even when accounting for the food the riders consumed.</blockquote><br /> Do van drivers not eat? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-353418 Thu, 05 Aug 2021 06:50:31 +0000 chdot 353418@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/05/cargo-bikes-deliver-faster-and-cleaner-than-vans-study-finds" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/05/cargo-bikes-deliver-faster-and-cleaner-than-vans-study-finds</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-144940 Sun, 09 Mar 2014 18:14:13 +0000 crowriver 144940@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yep, that's the one.</p> <p>This would appear to be their fleet of cargo bikes/trikes. Which are a Bullitt, a Burrows 8freight/Madsen or similar(?)* and a converted pedicab. Nice!</p> <p><a href="http://www.b-spokes.com/deliveries/img/slider/delivery/02.png"><img src="http://www.b-spokes.com/deliveries/img/slider/delivery/02.png"></a></p> <p>* - Actually I'm pretty sure that's an 8 freight, with theunifork swapped for a conventional fork. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-144920 Sun, 09 Mar 2014 14:07:02 +0000 chdot 144920@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Probably -</p> <p>B-spokes 46 Stanley Place, Edinburgh, EH7 5TB</p> <p><a href="http://www.b-spokes.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.b-spokes.com</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-144917 Sun, 09 Mar 2014 14:01:03 +0000 crowriver 144917@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I am now regularly seeing a Bullitt cargo bike traversing London Road. Every week I spot it. Big cargo box on the carrying platform. Can't recall the name of the courier company but presume it is based where the pedicab garages are near Lower London Road? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-144914 Sun, 09 Mar 2014 13:23:33 +0000 chdot 144914@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://pelagobicycles.com/bicycles/pelago-linahammar.html" rel="nofollow">http://pelagobicycles.com/bicycles/pelago-linahammar.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-143337 Sat, 22 Feb 2014 23:35:55 +0000 Tulyar 143337@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>For around 2 decades York's cycle logistics operator has been delivering in the city and for much of that time they have had contracts with the blue chip van courier operators to do city centre drops.</p> <p>The greater local knowledge of a cycle courier tends to result in fewer aborted drops, and the ability to practically ride in through the door for many deliveries means a drop-rate about twice that which can be achieved with a large motor vehicle.</p> <p>A bit concerned to hear that one of the ways that low cost local deliveries are being farmed out, is to offer the work to those with motability cars, and I'm just wondering what the implications of that might be, as obviously the driver/user of the car might be getting an advantage of a special deal on their vehicle, because of their disability, and using it for a commercial benefit.</p> <p>Doing drops by bike or on foot as noted do not have the substantial costs of procuring and operating a motor vehicle, and so a postcode round, dropping 50-60 items - eg magazines/mobile phones/wifi routers might take 1-2 hours, and have the flexibility of timing to fit in with child care or other part time work, and the cost of the bike being idle is low compared to the labour costs.</p> <p>Add in an office supplies contract (printer cartridges/boxes of paper/files etc), and replenishment of tourist leaflet displays, changing bus timetable posters, block delivery of voting cards etc, and a healthy local business can be built up. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-143267 Sat, 22 Feb 2014 10:40:17 +0000 chdot 143267@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> 215 litres of soup a day, every drop of which is pedalled out carbon-neutral across the city each morning.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.unionofgenius.com/happy-birthday" rel="nofollow">http://www.unionofgenius.com/happy-birthday</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-143031 Wed, 19 Feb 2014 23:14:11 +0000 crowriver 143031@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Saw what looked like two cargo trikes advancing eastward along London Road this afternoon. They're becoming a more common sight on the streets. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-142986 Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:32:30 +0000 chdot 142986@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Utrecht uses low-emissions vehicles"</p> <p>I wonder how much the council there can influence (or mandate) things like this. </p> <p>In general cities 'in Europe' have more powers/flexibility than in the UK. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-142985 Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:25:05 +0000 SRD 142985@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Utrecht uses low-emissions vehicles, designed to have excellent visibility from cab (ie no blind spots)</p> <p><a href="http://energy-cities.eu/Take-a-tip-from-Utrecht" rel="nofollow">http://energy-cities.eu/Take-a-tip-from-Utrecht</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-142983 Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:15:56 +0000 cb 142983@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sainsbury's Local in Morning side seems to get a daily delivery at around 07:15. It is an HGV that makes the delivery but I've never actually watched to see how much gets off loaded.</p> <p>However I would guess at at least 100kg of milk per day so that pretty much rules out re-stocking by bike surely.</p> <p>Something somewhere between a bike and an HGV would be ideal. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-142975 Wed, 19 Feb 2014 13:33:55 +0000 wingpig 142975@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote><em>"That would require the cyclist to return to depot after pretty much every delivery. So the cost would be a lot higher than using a van."</em></blockquote></p> <p>Not if they had more than a couple of panniers. Like the Bakfietsy things cycle-delivery things tend to use. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-142973 Wed, 19 Feb 2014 13:29:25 +0000 SRD 142973@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A few of this were still in use in Oxford in the 1990s. more often seen parked as attraction/advertising than actually out and about delivering though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-142970 Wed, 19 Feb 2014 13:24:18 +0000 paolobr 142970@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I recall growing up in the 60's in NE Scotland and often getting our 'messages' delivered by bike, and seeing the delivery boys around the town. Can't recall the type of bike, certainly had a large frame on the front above a small front wheel. However, a quick Google has brought up this:</p> <p><a href="http://tradesmansbike.wordpress.com/">http://tradesmansbike.wordpress.com/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-142965 Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:51:23 +0000 gibbo 142965@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote>"...unlikely to dent your typical Sainsburys Local morning delivery..."</p> <p><em>Perhaps not when people are ordering packed-trolley-sized amounts of stuff, but lots of us will know that a mere basketworth can easily disappear into a couple of panniers.</em></blockquote></p> <p>That would require the cyclist to return to depot after pretty much every delivery. So the cost would be a lot higher than using a van.</p> <p>Where cyclists would be good would be when they can make a reasonable number of deliveries on each journey. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-142964 Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:08:17 +0000 sallyhinch 142964@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Interesting. The Yodel van I see around here (I assume it's the same driver) is always very polite and careful around me on my bike. I thought maybe it was good company policy, but perhaps it's just that he's a local and knows me (I was waved at very enthusiastically by a bin lorry driver the other day and was startled to realise he was a fellow member of the community council) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-142963 Wed, 19 Feb 2014 11:56:50 +0000 wingpig 142963@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote><em>"Of course almost everyone benefits as we all like low mail order prices.<br /> Next time you see 'free delivery' think of him and the others"</em></blockquote></p> <p>Next time I see 'free delivery' I'd prefer a choice and a range of prices where there's otherwise a risk of HDNL/Yodel getting hold of something I've paid for. Amazon in particular have been very bad at not specifying who might end up being responsible for your stuff getting to your premises, this apparently only being rendered after the payment part of the checkout process. Planet X were at least honest in stating that they used Yodel but didn't offer any option of paying a bit more for someone with no history of leaving laptops under plantpots.</p> <p>Rose seem to be able to use Parcelforce for the UK portion of deliveries despite the mainlain European leg being conducted by the more reliable DHL, so presumably other companies could also invoke a bicyle delivery service within cities for smaller items after motor-couriering them as far as a city's sorting office or depot.<br /> Wonder if someone local-but-also-offering-mail-order like EBC have ever costed out cycle-delivery for local mail order compared to the postage cost? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-142959 Wed, 19 Feb 2014 11:42:19 +0000 LaidBack 142959@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Interesting to look at the trends in delivery. Some tales here...</p> <p>Walking about old town before Christmas.</p> <p>• B-Spoke orange 8 Freight delivering cakes and bulky light stuff to Hula and Mellis (I think). </p> <p>• Royal Mail, DHL and Yodel - all doing mail order / Amazon?</p> <p>• Tesco home delivery</p> <p>I know with Paisley Freight, MyParcel and the rest that prices have started to rise again. A bike box could move for as low as £21.50 or as much as £96 (myParcel UK record quote!)</p> <p><strong>Keeping costs down - aka 'pass the parcel'<br /> </strong>I have a friend that works from home for Yodel using his own car, in his own neighbourhood. He doesn't cycle and like many reckons a car is good, as you can lock a pile of things in easily. However he is noticing that fuel costs are higher than he hoped and by the time he factors in running and stop / start wear and tear, he reckons it's not viable. Comparing notes with others he finds that most retirees try this sort of thing for a few months and basically help Yodel/Amazon out by working cheaply.<br /> Luckily there are always more people that have a car and the time so 'pass the parcel' deliveries can always be done somehow. Yodel aren't the only one.</p> <p>Of course almost everyone benefits as we all like low mail order prices. Combine this with retirees with the time and the cars (or bikes) and any new business has hard competition. Some locales though will be ideal bike terrotory so the Yodel <strike>slave</strike> freelancer can get fit and keep more money...</p> <p>Although earning very little my contact has enjoyed learning about how it all works. He wants to do the job as well as he can of course....<br /> Evenings after dinner are filled up with phone calls to Yodel control to re-assign items that show as 'failed delivery' on his handheld scanner.</p> <p><em> Next time you see 'free delivery' think of him and the others! ;-)<br /> </em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12246#post-142944 Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:33:44 +0000 chdot 142944@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"as, if pictures in books are to be believed, they once were"</p> <p>Well they <em>were</em> - hard to tell the proportion/scale. </p> <p>Probably mostly pre-WW2. 'Traditionally' butchers, bakers etc - daily perishables (before people had fridges and cars!)</p> <p>Now supermarkets deliver for free if you spend more than £50 with them. </p> <p>There may be scope for specialist retailers to get together to offer a joint delivery service. </p> <p>I think York has bicycle delivery services - probably related to restriction on vehicles in the city centre... </p>