http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "Jim Orr quits SNP over ‘internal spats’ " en Thu, 14 May 2026 03:29:56 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=3#post-257748 Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:47:14 +0000 SRD 257748@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not suggesting someone should be able to lie with impunity, but we all know that libel and defamation laws are written in different ways in different jurisdictions. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=3#post-257744 Mon, 21 Aug 2017 16:08:52 +0000 ih 257744@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Nothing wrong with modernization, but the point remains that if you assert something on any platform and don't have some demonstrable evidence to support it then you are open to a defamation case. This is the issue of 'truth' that was my point. I have read the links to the Scottish Law Commission and Scottish PEN (most of which I agree with) in Andy Wightman's Blog and nowhere do they suggest a freedom to say things which are not true. Freedom of expression is not freedom to say anything. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=3#post-257737 Mon, 21 Aug 2017 14:47:12 +0000 SRD 257737@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Andy Wightman, who does have a 'dog' (or rather wildcat...) in this fiught suggests that Scotland's defamation laws are in need of 'modernization''. (as do other capaigners) <a href="http://www.andywightman.com/archives/4524" rel="nofollow">http://www.andywightman.com/archives/4524</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=3#post-257735 Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:58:18 +0000 ih 257735@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"IIRC in a defamation case you are presumed guilty unless you can prove what you said to be true - "</p> <p>I have no dog in this fight, but if you are planning to defame someone, it seems reasonable to me that you should, at least on balance, have some evidence that would support your assertion. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=3#post-257733 Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:46:59 +0000 neddie 257733@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I hope someone copied Jim Orr's blog before he took it down</p> <p>(I presume it has been taken down...) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=3#post-257730 Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:29:43 +0000 Dave 257730@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>IIRC in a defamation case you are presumed guilty unless you can prove what you said to be true - something that is presumably pretty difficult given the nature of the corruption / dodgy dealings that were referred to? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=3#post-257721 Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:04:54 +0000 Frenchy 257721@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>The hearing panel noted that Mr Cardownie had sued for defamation and as a result Mr Orr had paid damages and issued an unqualified apology for the blogpost.</em></p> <p>Hadn't heard this until now, too. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=3#post-257719 Mon, 21 Aug 2017 12:57:22 +0000 chdot 257719@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/ex-councillor-jim-orr-censured-over-demeaning-blog-1-4537635" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/ex-councillor-jim-orr-censured-over-demeaning-blog-1-4537635</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=3#post-145641 Sun, 16 Mar 2014 18:32:13 +0000 chdot 145641@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> All change at Transport &amp; Environment ...<br /> 15 Mar 2014 15:56</p> <p>Was sorry to see my SNP coalition-colleague, Jim Orr, resign the whip a couple of weeks ago ... at a personal level, I wish him all the best for the future.</p> <p>It does, of course, mean there's been a vacancy for the post of "Vice-Convener of the Transport and the Environment Committee", and this week's Full Council Meeting confirmed that Adam McVey will be taking on the job. I look forward to working with Adam over the coming months.</p> <p>And by one of those strange coincidences-of-fate, who did I jog past on the canal yesterday ... the last-but-one, Transport and Environment Committee Convener: Gordon Mackenzie (on his bike!).</p> <p>Despite our political differences, I really do think Gordon deserves enormous credit for spearheading the initial "5% of transport revenue and capital" commitment, to be spent on cycling in Edinburgh ... and our own second budget, passed just last month, saw that rise to 7% (see paragraph 1.5).</p> <p>As a daily cyclist, I can see it making a real difference across the city ... I know there's a long way to go, but just imagine city-cycling without that commitment?</p> <p>"</p> <p>Text with links at -</p> <p><a href="http://andrewburns.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/all-change-at-transport-environment.html" rel="nofollow">http://andrewburns.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/all-change-at-transport-environment.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=3#post-145575 Sat, 15 Mar 2014 00:01:07 +0000 chdot 145575@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> Lizzie Rynne (@CityCycling)<br /> 14/03/2014 22:54<br /> @CyclingEdin heres my lift piccie: </p> <p><a href="http://pic.twitter.com/9uBTJJ7tEc" rel="nofollow">http://pic.twitter.com/9uBTJJ7tEc</a></p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-145571 Fri, 14 Mar 2014 22:58:17 +0000 chdot 145571@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Can't find my lift pic. </p> <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/4401799771/"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2696/4401799771_efa0cb8362.jpg"></a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-145570 Fri, 14 Mar 2014 22:35:33 +0000 Lizzie 145570@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>its the lift that counts the most (don;t know how to load an image). But its big enough for tandems and/or trailers and has auto doors so no difficulties. Takes you up to the bridge cycle/walk way. Hassle free. It really is the TOPS facility. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-145569 Fri, 14 Mar 2014 22:22:48 +0000 chdot 145569@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/3923351687/"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2671/3923351687_a512e543d3.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/3923351687/">crossing the Tay</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-145568 Fri, 14 Mar 2014 22:14:58 +0000 Lizzie 145568@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well the SOCC was a small part of the overall Green Circular project.<br /> The cycle officer per-ce was not the most focussed (sorry to say that) - their Access Officer was far more motivating and brought many great changes - she now works in Fife, but these achievements were made because of an overall council commitment. The Dundee Path Challenge (2003) (a focussed attempt to get various community groups in Dundee to propose projects for active travel improvements) was a great motivator: it brought drawdown not only for the improvements to NCN1 to Broughty Ferry (inc the flourescent guiding dots) but also a lot of the town centre public realm improvements.<br /> Dundee really is worth a visit.<br /> Lizzie. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-145563 Fri, 14 Mar 2014 21:47:38 +0000 chdot 145563@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Finally is it true that cllr Adam McVey is to be the convenor of the cycle forum now?"</p> <p>Not yet. </p> <p>Up to negotiations between him and Lesley Hinds. </p> <p>Don't know if he wants to, but has now 'come out' as bike rider -</p> <p>"</p> <p>Adam McVey (@adamrmcvey)<br /> 14/03/2014 18:47<br /> @CyclingEdin @DrCarolineBrown @POPScotland @Edinburgh_CC I'll be on my bike, hoping for sunshine!</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-145562 Fri, 14 Mar 2014 21:47:15 +0000 chdot 145562@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ L</p> <p>Interesting!</p> <p>Must go and look again. </p> <p>Agree about the 'green circular' - was a good product of the SOCC. </p> <p><a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/oldsite/srdundee.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.spokes.org.uk/oldsite/srdundee.htm</a></p> <p>If I remember rightly, key council official moved to non-cycle related work. </p> <p>Don't think actual numbers of people cycling increased much. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-145560 Fri, 14 Mar 2014 21:32:50 +0000 Lizzie 145560@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I would disagree with DdF above: Edinburgh does not have the most enlightened cycle policy in Scotland. I;d say you need to look to Dundee for that. OK The policy is not so cycle specific, but they have created a traffic free town centre, with good quality public realm, where public transport and cycling and walking are given proper priority over private cars. They had a policy of including cycle storage in new residential developments (and this is proper cycle storage) for many years now- the first in Scotland to achieve such a policy. They put together the 'green circular' when Edinburgh were just talking about sorting out the NEN; the facility to get onto the tay bridge is second to none, as is the treatment for cycle passage through the docks at a time when this passage was going to be banned completely because of the fear of terrorist attack; and the off road route from Dundee centre to Broughty Ferry had guiding fluorescent dots a long time before the canal towpath was given its makeover. So I don;t actually think Edinburgh DOES have the accolade of being the place thats best for cyclists nor that should have the accolade for the best policy. Unfortunately however, Dundee seriously lets itself down by not including cycle facilities in the well publicised Water Front regeneration. A very short sighted decision by a visionary who was brought in from Glasgow to progress the project, which in all other respects is actually very forward thinking (though over time has been slightly altered to water down some of the very good stuff).<br /> I really recommend a site visit to Dundee for all cycle campaigners just now. Its not just about the specific cycle-related policy that counts: its the overall policy about transport and how to manage road space and the street environment which embodies ideas that facilitates cycling and walking. And at the moment, Dundee is doing that FAR better than Edinburgh.</p> <p>Finally is it true that cllr Adam McVey is to be the convenor of the cycle forum now? </p> <p>Lizzie. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-145291 Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:00:51 +0000 chdot 145291@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/councillors/85/adam_mcvey">Adam McVey</a> is our new man </p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-145015 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 13:12:06 +0000 chdot 145015@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>SNP group meets tonight to decide replacement.</p> <p>It will be one of these -</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/councillors/specificParty/14/snp_group" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/councillors/specificParty/14/snp_group</a></p> <p>Though some won't want the job as they already are convenors - unless there is a major reshuffle. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-144205 Mon, 03 Mar 2014 18:46:00 +0000 crowriver 144205@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Vice-Convener will be SNP.</p> <p>Division of responsibilities is a matter for negotiation, post appointment.</em></p> <p>Yep. Pretty much what we've been divining here. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-144202 Mon, 03 Mar 2014 18:20:35 +0000 chdot 144202@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Two sources have told me -</p> <p>'<br /> Vice-Convener will be SNP. </p> <p>Division of responsibilities is a matter for negotiation, post appointment.</p> <p>'</p> <p>So Lesley Hinds <em>could</em> (for instance) chair Cycle Forum as well as Transport Forum and Access Forum. </p> <p>Alternatively all could be chaired by her new deputy!</p> <p>We shall see. </p> <p>I don't think there is any chance of any attempt to alter existing policies - or dilute or delay their implementation. </p> <p>A quick look at the reports for the last T&amp;I committee shows that there is much more to it than 'active travel', so the new V-C could be made responsible for other things. </p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/meetings/meeting/3190/transport_and_environment_committee" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/meetings/meeting/3190/transport_and_environment_committee</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-144108 Sun, 02 Mar 2014 22:39:48 +0000 chdot 144108@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Out now! … Edinburgh progress in sustainable transport; Preventing Haymarket tramline crashes; Transport &amp; Planning: failure in joined-up thinking; Council Local Transport Strategy supplement; Everyday bike use pictures; and loads more…</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/pall6.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/pall6.pdf</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-144104 Sun, 02 Mar 2014 22:07:57 +0000 chdot 144104@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Yes it did!"</p> <p>I was <em>just</em> referring to QBiC. </p> <p>I accept what you say about 'its time will come' and 'future political bravery', but the fact remains the 'simple cycling punter' will see it as half-hearted, half-finished with terrible surfaces in a couple of places ('not part of the QBiC spec' - WHY NOT??), 'missing' lanes, inadequate notification of the 20mph and poor parking enforcement. (<a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/1208-Richard-QBiC-Problems.pdf">Some details by Spokes</a> - think most are still unfixed. )</p> <p>It's ironic that the day Andrew Burns rode from KB with CCE people that the wardens were out - after complaints...</p> <p>That first hand experience should have been enough to make <em>something</em> happen on the QBiC (in my opinion). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-144103 Sun, 02 Mar 2014 21:55:07 +0000 DdF 144103@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"Andrew Burns did this (constructive criticism)and nothing changed"<br /> </em></p> <p>Yes it did!</p> <p>They agreed to do things better in Leith Walk and went to the government and secured the funding to do so. Leith Walk still won't be perfect, but the top half will be segregated and the onroad lanes in the bottom half will be significantly better than QBIC - wider and with a buffer zone next to the car doors. They are also in the early stages of thinking about the east-west city centre route from West Ed to Leith Walk, in which they say that some sections will be segregated, with the others still under consideration - as in the recent Ev News 'scoop.'</p> <p>A few years ago, plans for these schemes would have been much more modest.</p> <p>It is true that QBiC itself has not been changed as yet, but change tends to come by learning from the past in the next lot of schemes not by continually rebuilding the same scheme [unless of course if it worsens a situation, i.e. causes crashes that were not happening before]. Of course QBiC will get its turn again in the future at some point, but hopefully that will not be until such time as councillors have more confidence in restricting car parking and reallocating roadspace. The above schemes, and continuing lobbying by individuals and groups, should move them further along that road. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-144096 Sun, 02 Mar 2014 21:22:25 +0000 chdot 144096@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12143&amp;page=5#post-144091">You invite us to consider the case of Seville, which has seen cycling numbers increase tenfold in just six years. As you say, this was achieved "through a concerted political effort to build a joined-up safe cycling network".</a></p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-144094 Sun, 02 Mar 2014 21:14:37 +0000 chdot 144094@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"it should be done in a constructive way"</p> <p>Agreed. </p> <p>Andrew Burns did that about QBiC - and nothing changed. </p> <p>"are under strong pressures from many directions;"</p> <p>Clearly, and to some degree it's surprising how much has been/is being achieved for 'active travel'. </p> <p>A LOT of credit goes to Spokes - and the consistency over many years. </p> <p>That all started in the "over my dead body" days of simply campaigning for cycling on MMW. </p> <p>After that a lot of great work was done by Lothian Region (some officials are still in place...)</p> <p>"and that the overall council policy direction is working" </p> <p>Perhaps. </p> <p>But this is the 'real problem'. The campaigning (in Edinburgh ) has worked. The policies are in place - however (it sometimes seems) those (politicians and officials) who oppose/are sceptical about 'the agenda' ignore/undermine/block where they can. </p> <p>They hide behind 'planning legislation'/'what the traders want' etc. </p> <p>Politicians - scared of the voters/Evening News/colleagues hold back from promoting a strong vision of less traffic, better conditions for pedestrians (AND businesses) and preside over a mix of good, bad and indifferent. </p> <p>I'm sure there are people who think PoP is 'a bit over the top', 'unrealistic' and should 'praise the good and ask (privately) for a bit more'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-144090 Sun, 02 Mar 2014 20:39:13 +0000 DdF 144090@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It is certainly not right to say things are good if they are not, but there are ways of doing things. .</p> <p>e.g. on QBIC at one extreme one can say the whole thing is rubbish, saying or implying that the people implementing it are stupid rather than recognising that they are under heavy opposite pressures from traders, some councillors, etc.</p> <p>Alternatively you can point out its flaws and the reasons behind its excessive cost in a constructive way and recognise that for all its faults it is an improvement on the previous situation. [Although some people do think it is total rubbish and likely to increase crashes that has always been a minority view, going by <a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2013/04/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/">the only survey we know of</a>]</p> <p>And whilst undoubtedly some schemes leave a lot to be desired, they need to be criticised in the context that Edinburgh's overall policies are raising cycle use, raising walking, raising bus use, and cutting car commuting - <a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/1401-Census_2011-Edinburgh-fullrpt-Transport_and_travel.pdf">as shown by the census results</a>. Those achievements are all the more impressive because the picture in Scotland as a whole has been going the other way.</p> <p>I am certainly not saying we shouldn't criticise the bad - but it should be done in a constructive way, also understanding that people in the council are not stupid, but are under strong pressures from many directions; and that the overall council policy direction is working. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-144083 Sun, 02 Mar 2014 20:00:16 +0000 chdot 144083@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"We just need to be very supportive of pro cycling initiatives?"</p> <p>In principle yes. </p> <p>In practice yes, when they are good. </p> <p>One problem is that some stuff is good, some is not - there is still no consistent, joined-up, way of doing things by CEC - in spite of all its active travel policies (approved by politicians including JO's former party colleagues). </p> <p>Perhaps the PoP ride should pause at the City Chambers on its way to Holyrood. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-144082 Sun, 02 Mar 2014 19:44:37 +0000 gembo 144082@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Agreed, it would not be possible for us as mere voters to protect a vulnerable politician from his/her colleagues.</p> <p>We just need to be very supportive of pro cycling initiatives? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12313&page=2#post-144081 Sun, 02 Mar 2014 19:39:21 +0000 chdot 144081@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I read from DdF's post that Jim Orr was seeking positive feedback because he was holding a line against criticism from less cycling friendly members of the SNP"</p> <p>Yes and no doubt some were saying 'what's the point of doing anything? - 'cyclists' are so ungrateful'. </p> <p>Whether JO resigned because he was fed up "holding a line" or his party was fed up with him "holding a line" is not clear. </p> <p>Either way I don't think it's up to people wanting things to be better in Edinburgh to second-guess the secret feelings of a small number of politicians. </p>