http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Cyclist down - Princes Street (FPV) en Wed, 13 May 2026 02:57:34 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144890 Sun, 09 Mar 2014 02:38:05 +0000 Focus 144890@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hope there are no lasting injuries. I would second what allebong said - the line you took would be more or less ideal were there no tracks to cross. Adding them ha made it all but impossible to make a smooth turn without the addition of a quick correction at he end, something you really don't want to be doing in the dry, let alone the wet.</p> <p>Nice to see the taxi driver appear to be genuinely concerned for your well-being. All too rare. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144879 Sat, 08 Mar 2014 23:06:25 +0000 Arellcat 144879@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I think chdot and Arellcat have some photos that can be posted to illustrate the deficiencies.</em></p> <p>This is one of the threads with pics:</p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10912#post-121808" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10912#post-121808</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144878 Sat, 08 Mar 2014 22:52:51 +0000 condor2378 144878@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Tulyar<br /> Thanks for the info, I'll look into that. </p> <p>It was definitely the rail though as I was already down before reaching the man hole, you can see it from a near 45 degree perspective at 0:06. </p> <p>Hip is a bit better today but I'm going to keep monitoring it. Thanks all. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144816 Sat, 08 Mar 2014 11:39:20 +0000 Nelly 144816@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Tulyar, you seem pretty well versed in the regs re Tram tracks laying etc.</p> <p>Is there any similar duty of care on the council / roads bods re sunken manholes etc in the 'normal' parts of the highway ?</p> <p>Just wondering as - while I am sure a few mm here or there is dangerous on tram tracklines - there are parts of the general road system which are more like 5-6 <strong>centimeters</strong> deep (and when filled with water are really dangerous). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144815 Sat, 08 Mar 2014 11:28:50 +0000 Tulyar 144815@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@condor2378 Get along to A&amp;E and get that checked out - sharp pain can often be a hairline fracture - I recall after one bad crash having to 'suggest' an x-ray of my arm (it was broken - hairline) and that my lower teeth were moving relative to each other in the middle of my jaw - it was again a clean but separated fracture.</p> <p>They had focussed on the main impact site on my cheek. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144813 Sat, 08 Mar 2014 10:55:37 +0000 Tulyar 144813@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just took another look - it was probably not the rails that took you down. It was the sunken steel manhole cover where your front wheel is sitting at 0.14. Check standards for ironwork set into road surface, but that is a clearly visible height difference between the cover and the frame. </p> <p>Given that all vehicles are turning here, it is a pretty bad place to put a manhole, and suggest a lack of design co-ordination or a rushed detail rather than a considered position for the manhole? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144810 Sat, 08 Mar 2014 10:39:30 +0000 Tulyar 144810@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A bit more than 'just the tram rail' the levels of roadway either side are so low that there is water lying in them and the thickness of the yellow thermoplastic road markings looks to be too great - max should be 3mm and at 100mm wide and just as slippery as tar banding when wet (and tar banding limit is 50mm wide because of the slippery surface bringing down motorbikes) there is a combination of hazards which, being placed all together creates the potential for your crash.</p> <p>ORR spec for tram tracks is that the rail head is flush with BUT NO MORE THAN 3mm above abutting road surfaces AND abutting road surfaces should be smooth and free from additional ridges. PLUS any road markings shold be no higher than 3mm above the road surface.</p> <p>For thermoplastic road markings the current material has to have added friction improvers (ie grit of some sort), as pure thermoplastic road markings are lethal, especially in the wet with worn down crogs.</p> <p>Worth taking some careful measurements/pictures on a quiet morning - take a straightedge (ruler or similar) and lay/prop up across surface, use scale marking on ruler to transpose measurements to vertical.</p> <p>Sheffield Supertram has a measurement trolley that they wheel over the tracks to monitor the road-rail profile, after they got a massive claim for life changing injuries from a car driver through the rail height above the road being sufficient to lift his tyres clear of the friction surface and cause the crash. </p> <p>Sheffield, Manchester and Nottingham on-street tracks are all maintained to the ORR standard. From what I have seen, large parts of Edinburgh's on-street track has not even been installed to this standard. Croydon track is equally dire in many places. </p> <p>I think chdot and Arellcat have some photos that can be posted to illustrate the deficiencies</p> <p>That section also has a very sharp step between the green overlay coat and the regular road surface in places.</p> <p>Remember that this could be reported as an HSE RIDDOR (Reporting of Infectious Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations) particularly if any hospital treatment is required, as the road area in which the tram tracks sit is regarded as part of the tram system per tramways legislation. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144804 Sat, 08 Mar 2014 08:18:20 +0000 Kenny 144804@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Wow, I'm relatively inexperienced at combatting the tram tracks, and the angle you took looked good to me. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144797 Sat, 08 Mar 2014 00:15:56 +0000 condor2378 144797@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@PS<br /> It was my intention to go along Prince Street by keeping just to the left of the last track. This didn't work out as planned.</p> <p>@tk<br /> Yes, I noticed that too. If I could work out how to have that as the "display frame" then I'd totally have that.</p> <p>I was particularly appreciative of the taxi driver inquiry, to be honest I maybe get caught up in the "us" &amp; "them" thought process, so it's reassuring to be reminded that deep down "they" are just like "us" when someone gets hurt. </p> <p>And on that note, the pain and stiffness has generally been getting worse as they day goes on, especially in an area on my hip about the size of a 50p coin which feels like I'm being stabbed when making certain movements and when it's touched, but is otherwise relatively pain free, which makes finding it difficult but, oh boy do I know all about it when I do. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144781 Fri, 07 Mar 2014 22:16:37 +0000 Arellcat 144781@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The 'online comments' printed in today's EEN, about banning cyclists from anywhere with tram tracks, are particularly vitriolic. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144773 Fri, 07 Mar 2014 21:59:01 +0000 tk 144773@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Glad you're ok. The caution tram tracks sign at the end adds a great touch. Wonder how long till the EEN find this one.... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144755 Fri, 07 Mar 2014 18:28:48 +0000 LaidBack 144755@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just watched and listened on shop's old laptop linked to power map. <strong>Looked and sounded bad. </strong><br /> Almost perfect until the last track. On dry day with extra few mm of tyre it could have worked.<br /> As noted taxi driver did at least enquire. There are a few good ones out there and some cycle too!<br /> Anyway you got back on the bike and hopefully no damage done to you. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144738 Fri, 07 Mar 2014 16:02:08 +0000 algo 144738@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>ouch... I hope you're not too bruised after that and the bike's ok. I keep hearing about more people falling off on the tram tracks... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144737 Fri, 07 Mar 2014 15:44:03 +0000 gibbo 144737@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@I were right about that saddle,</p> <p>You're absolutely bang on the money. Cyclists shouldn't be having to play thread the needle. This is a hazard built into the system - that's particularly hazardous on wet days. </p> <p>PS Hope you're not too banged up Condor. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144736 Fri, 07 Mar 2014 15:40:34 +0000 allebong 144736@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On the second pair of tracks, it seems you made it over the first rail fine at a fairly shallow angle, then while going across the second (and last) rail at what looked like the same angle then your luck ran out. Ouch, as they say. Might have been the way you were trying to straighten out for getting in the middle of the lane that done it. Of course, if you hadn't done that, your road positioning would have been off afterwards and you might have had a run in with traffic attempting to slide by. Can't win.</p> <p><em>I find it helps to have big fat tyres on Princes Street</em></p> <p>Wide tyres (50c on my town bike) solve a great manner of problems around the city, however you can't get too smug, as although they can't fall into the track they absolutely can slide suddenly on the wet top part of the rail. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144725 Fri, 07 Mar 2014 13:57:27 +0000 crowriver 144725@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ouch!</p> <p>That's a tricky turn, I tend to avoid it now. Your angle was too shallow mind. It is difficult though when you have motors right behind: if you go across at the correct angle, you end up too far left and drivers attempt to overtake...</p> <p>I find it helps to have big fat tyres on Princes Street, they glide effortlessly over the tram lines. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144724 Fri, 07 Mar 2014 13:56:21 +0000 PS 144724@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Oocha! </p> <p>Out of interest, condor, which lane were you heading for? Princes Street or the right hand lane into South Charlotte Street? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144722 Fri, 07 Mar 2014 13:51:23 +0000 ARobComp 144722@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>+2 for EddieD </p> <p>I've come off twice. </p> <p>Hope hand heals up! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144714 Fri, 07 Mar 2014 13:17:09 +0000 amir 144714@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>+1 for EddieD (except that I don't need tram tracks to crash)</p> <p>Nice to see everyone stopped and the taxi driver asked if you were okay. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144713 Fri, 07 Mar 2014 13:16:14 +0000 I were right about that saddle 144713@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"My own fault, too narrow an angle over wet tram tracks."</p> <p>The danger to cyclists is designed into the tram project. Can you imagine the hoo-ha if they'd installed something that regularly caused cars to turn over and injure the drivers? There would be a hot fuss to end all fuss. The Chipwrapper would be in meltdown and Questions Would Be Asked.</p> <p>But we're used to it. It's just another hazard on the way. I do hope the trams are worth three quarters of a billion quid, a load of bruised hips and scraped knees and yet another barrier to active travel.</p> <p>Glad you're OK, but you'll not be the last to take this tumble. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144708 Fri, 07 Mar 2014 12:57:56 +0000 EddieD 144708@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ow.</p> <p>Glad you're okay - I had the same lesson... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12357#post-144707 Fri, 07 Mar 2014 12:54:34 +0000 condor2378 144707@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My own fault, too narrow an angle over wet tram tracks.<br /> Other than a sore left hip / elbow / wrist I'm fine.<br /> Watch and learn and don't make the same mistake I did.</p> <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3oJeQ7lnag&amp;feature=youtu.be" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3oJeQ7lnag&amp;feature=youtu.be</a> </p>