CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Tactiles

CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Tactiles http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Tactiles en Tue, 19 May 2026 10:54:46 +0000 chdot on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579&page=2#post-236829 Fri, 18 Nov 2016 11:48:36 +0000 chdot 236829@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Indeed! " That doesn’t only hold for a filtered Judd Street, it will also apply to a bus stop bypass. I hear through the grapevine that a working group of stakeholders have found that evidence gathered to date from monitoring bus stop bypasses shows that they are not inherently dangerous. That’s good news, however, if blind people are avoiding these bus stops because they don’t consider them to be safe, they are effectively excluded from the evidence base being considered. It’s essentially the same argument cycling advocates use to explain the lack of underrepresented groups cycling in a hostile environment – a lack of subjective safety leads to self exclusion and no amount of stats proving how safe it is for the people who do cycle, or training in how they do it, significantly alters that. " I'm sure many of 'us' don't consider other potential infrastructure users enough. It's only relatively recently that 'cycle campaigners' have given much consideration to able-bodies pedestrians. Whether tactiles are used where there are (often) visually impaired people is unknown (to me). Whether tactiles have encouraged vips to encounter cycle lanes more often/with more confidence is also unknown (to me). This thread is mostly about tactiles making bike riders FEEL (and in extreme cases, BE) unsafe. Consequently a 'barrier to cycling' - a reason for people to not cycle (perhaps when wet) or go a different route - just like tram lines. Specifically on MMW the tactiles would seem to be being used as a 'beware pedestrians' tool - more than 'info for vips'. I don't know if this is necessary/desirable/optimal. There is a (potential/real) problem of cycle/ped conflict. Cycle speed down a significant slope is an issue. Much as I hate them, bumps on the downhill might be justified. These tactiles slow people down through fear (or don't for the confident/fearless). No idea if the tactiles have improved pedestrian safety - I hope CEC has done some monitoring(?) It as though people with disabilities are being used as a convenient excuse - and they might not even be benefiting to any noticeable degree. I hope Gavin Corbett can see this through to some sort of better solution. fimm on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579&page=2#post-236808 Fri, 18 Nov 2016 10:46:55 +0000 fimm 236808@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ A blog I picked up from the CEoGB blog round-up - someone who has more reason than most to not like tactiles but also more sympathy than perhaps some with people not liking their environment changed: <a href="https://cantstandupforfallingdown.com/2016/11/12/crossing-cycle-tracks/" rel="nofollow">https://cantstandupforfallingdown.com/2016/11/12/crossing-cycle-tracks/</a> Rosie on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236807 Fri, 18 Nov 2016 10:45:37 +0000 Rosie 236807@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @GavinCorbett is on twitter about this so worth tweeting at him. Arellcat on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236801 Fri, 18 Nov 2016 10:22:52 +0000 Arellcat 236801@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ by way of logical explanation The TRL has stated before that the reason was because longitudinal bars provided a smoother surface for cyclists (or that lateral bars provided a disincentive). The original TRL research, that Tulyar believes has conveniently gone missing, probably did take a view on traction in adverse conditions. Snowy on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236789 Fri, 18 Nov 2016 00:11:16 +0000 Snowy 236789@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ >Whoever came up with the idea that the grooves are in the direction of travel on the cycle side and across the line of travel for the pedestrians clearly doesn't ride a bike. Or, indeed, have to attempt to manoeuvre a pram with a sleeping child over the rumble strips on the ped side. My vote would be with the direction of travel on the ped side, and perpendicular rumble-strip stylee on the bike side. Bigjack on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236774 Thu, 17 Nov 2016 21:58:36 +0000 Bigjack 236774@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Whoever came up with the idea that the grooves are in the direction of travel on the cycle side and across the line of travel for the pedestrians clearly doesn't ride a bike. It would be interesting to learn what the real experts at the Transport Laboratory have to say about it by way of logical explanation and if they would ever agree that the grooves in direction of travel for cyclists are SAFER for cyclists. chdot on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236761 Thu, 17 Nov 2016 18:59:08 +0000 chdot 236761@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " Suzanne Senior (@wanderer49) 17/11/2016, 13:53 @gavincorbett @SpokesLothian @CyclingEdin As discussed, I had a bad cycle accident on these last year and still have a shoulder injury. " Colonies_Chris on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236760 Thu, 17 Nov 2016 18:52:11 +0000 Colonies_Chris 236760@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @Rosie - possibly someone I know, Suzanne, who came off on those wet leaf-covered tactiles on MMW this time last year? I'll contact her to see if she has tweeted GC. chdot on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236713 Thu, 17 Nov 2016 14:57:18 +0000 chdot 236713@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ That's 'cyclists' on Twitter for you! Plus a wheelchair pusher who doesn't like the bumpy orientation on the pedestrian side. Really 'not fit for purpose'. Rosie on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236712 Thu, 17 Nov 2016 14:50:02 +0000 Rosie 236712@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Gavin Corbett is being tweeted at as thick & fast as a leaf falls in November... chdot on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236699 Thu, 17 Nov 2016 14:31:27 +0000 chdot 236699@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "Tactile paving is not designed to be nice for cyclists" No, but, is it designed to be nasty? If not, is that careless or negligent? "It's designed to send specific information to people who need it." If you mean 'so that people with visual impairments know where there's a cycle path' then fine - but that only really works with some degree of universality and consistency. The installation on MMW by George Square seems to be more for general pedestrians and (more?) for cyclists to be aware/considerate. So primarily (I would suggest) to slow bikes down. If so, are the tactiles suitable or the best option? Arellcat on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236695 Thu, 17 Nov 2016 14:24:03 +0000 Arellcat 236695@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Maybe it's my mountainbiking background and being happy to let my bike squirm around underneath me, but so far I've never had a problem traversing the tactiles, even with spiky tyres or leaf mulch. Personally, I feel safer crossing on the cyclists' side, because the tramlining generally stops once my tyres reach the next raised bar. Crossing on the pedestrian 'rumble strip' side presents no obstruction to my tyre sliding out completely should it want to. </anecdote> Tactile paving is not designed to be nice for cyclists. It's designed to send specific information to people who need it. Roibeard on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236686 Thu, 17 Nov 2016 14:03:56 +0000 Roibeard 236686@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ You have horizontal strips for the peds, diagonal for the cycles. The issue with parallel strips is "tramlining", and hitting the strip as near to perpendicular as possible avoids this, although then you've a rumble strip. I suspect that (as with real tramlines), anything less than perpendicular increases the changes of slipping, although will result in rumbling. So although diagonal might be somewhat less slippy than parallel (depending on the pitch), I suspect it will be as rumbly as horizontal strips so perhaps not a useful tradeoff? Robert wingpig on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236684 Thu, 17 Nov 2016 14:00:23 +0000 wingpig 236684@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ The difference in forcible wheel-serving of the different depths/patterns of tactile is nicely noticeable on the multiple clusters on the newish Leith Links path. Some consistently deflect my (28mm) tyres and the wingpiglet's scooter-wheels, some don't. Ever since his first tactile-derived unplanned dismount all of them cause the wingpiglet to slow down to 1mph, irrespective of the amount of rain/leaf-slime. Frenchy on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236683 Thu, 17 Nov 2016 13:57:33 +0000 Frenchy 236683@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I always either go along the gap between the tactiles, or onto the pedestrian side. steveo on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236679 Thu, 17 Nov 2016 13:50:24 +0000 steveo 236679@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Didn't Morningsider do some research and conclude CEC was doing it wrong? Rosie on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236677 Thu, 17 Nov 2016 13:48:52 +0000 Rosie 236677@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ You have horizontal strips for the peds, diagonal for the cycles. Is that an insane idea? chdot on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236675 Thu, 17 Nov 2016 13:45:40 +0000 chdot 236675@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "Even diagonal would be better than vertical" ? Rosie on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236670 Thu, 17 Nov 2016 13:40:17 +0000 Rosie 236670@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @chdot Someone had an accident with tactiles on MMW & we had an exchange on Spokes Facebook. She said she'd notify Gavin Corbett who in turn is asking Spokes. It would be great if there was some pressure to get these vertical slithery tyre traps changed. Even diagonal would be better than vertical. I were right about that saddle on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236658 Thu, 17 Nov 2016 12:28:39 +0000 I were right about that saddle 236658@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ The bike tramline-squirms every time I go over that downhill. Stright line, so not really an issue but not nice neither. chdot on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-236657 Thu, 17 Nov 2016 12:20:05 +0000 chdot 236657@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " Gavin Corbett (@gavincorbett) 17/11/2016, 11:06 I'm interested @SpokesLothian @CyclingEdin in whether any cyclists have slipped here halfway up Middle Meadow Walk <a href="http://pic.twitter.com/Q7eWFFxTUL" rel="nofollow">http://pic.twitter.com/Q7eWFFxTUL</a> " Arellcat on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-192941 Thu, 09 Jul 2015 12:09:22 +0000 Arellcat 192941@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Interesting, and well done to Judge Parker. General awareness of the duty does not amount to the necessary due regard, being a "substantial rigorous and open-minded approach" I am not impressed by the argument that other London boroughs are also departing substantially from the national guidance... I find that Newham did not have a lawful justification for departing from the relevant national guidance... chdot on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-192937 Thu, 09 Jul 2015 11:27:00 +0000 chdot 192937@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " The Claimant, Mr Mohammed Mohsan Ali, lives in the London Borough of Newham ("Newham"). He is visually impaired. He is both a member and volunteer at the Royal National Institute of Blind People ("the RNIB"). He challenges by judicial review Newham's new local guidance ("the guidance") that is intended to be used in the design and specification of tactile paving; and he seeks, inter alia, a declaration that Newham has acted unlawfully in adopting the guidance and an order to quash the guidance. " <a href="http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2012/2970.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2012/2970.html</a> neddie on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-176707 Wed, 31 Dec 2014 10:57:44 +0000 neddie 176707@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ What a blind person would 'understand' from it is the same as anyone else - that CEC have created confusing & useless infrastructure that wastes the active travel budget chdot on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-176706 Wed, 31 Dec 2014 10:45:53 +0000 chdot 176706@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "that picture is of the wrong type of tactile paving for cycle routes" It's not a cycle route as such - shared use ramp on a bridge that also has steps. I have no idea what a blind/poorly sighted person would 'understand' if they came across them. Tulyar on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-176702 Wed, 31 Dec 2014 04:06:36 +0000 Tulyar 176702@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Chdot that picture is of the wrong type of tactile paving for cycle routes. Extensive testing delivered the 'correct' design but sadly (because no cyclists were consulted and no wheelchair or pram users either I suspect) the WRONG orientation was selected for both pedestrian and cycle sides - thus wheelchair users and prams move over to the cycle side because they prefer this orientation. chdot on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-176564 Fri, 26 Dec 2014 16:02:43 +0000 chdot 176564@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/16110341512/"><img src="https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8611/16110341512_b66f22db31.jpg"></a> chdot on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-148930 Mon, 14 Apr 2014 14:13:49 +0000 chdot 148930@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "We have reviewed the location you raised concerns about and we consider that the tactile paving at the western end of North Meadow Walk (where this joins the path to the signalised cycle/pedestrian crossing of Melville Drive) could potentially be an issue for cyclists." Very good! tk & CEC! SRD on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-148929 Mon, 14 Apr 2014 14:10:12 +0000 SRD 148929@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ oh that's brilliant. well done! I were right about that saddle on "Tactiles" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12579#post-148927 Mon, 14 Apr 2014 14:06:57 +0000 I were right about that saddle 148927@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ When those things first went in I was convinced that they'd got the orientation wrong by 90°. You get an odd tramlining effect that, whilst not dangerous, is off-putting. All in favour of rumble strips for those with imperfect sight, but these seemed weird.