http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Sustainable Edinburgh 2020: How do we get there? en Fri, 22 May 2026 06:54:02 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-181719 Tue, 24 Feb 2015 13:13:27 +0000 chdot 181719@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Sustainable transport leaders said the council’s drive to boost levels of cycling throughout the city was achievable.</p> <p>John Lauder, director of Sustrans Scotland, said: “The target of 15 per cent commutes by bike by 2020 is a long standing commitment by City of Edinburgh Council and one which Sustrans fully supports. </p> <p>“In particular, the council’s Active Travel Action Plan is well constructed and it is increasing the budget for cycling on an annual basis. </p> <p>“With eight per cent of commuting journeys in the city already by bike, there is every indication that Edinburgh will achieve the 15 per cent target over the next five years.”</p> <p>Opposition leaders said there was still much to do to convince residents of the plan’s merits but stressed that, if fully delivered, it could put Edinburgh ahead of the pack.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/city-plans-electric-car-points-and-solar-panels-1-3699665" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/city-plans-electric-car-points-and-solar-panels-1-3699665</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-149140 Tue, 15 Apr 2014 18:15:54 +0000 chdot 149140@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>It is clear that those countries and companies primarily responsible for emitting carbon and accelerating climate change are not simply going to give up; they stand to make too much money. They need a whole lot of gentle persuasion from the likes of us. And it need not necessarily involve trading in our cars and buying bicycles!</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/10/divest-fossil-fuels-climate-change-keystone-xl" rel="nofollow">http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/10/divest-fossil-fuels-climate-change-keystone-xl</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-149134 Tue, 15 Apr 2014 16:53:02 +0000 gibbo 149134@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>What enforcement of these 'laws' is there? What is the punishment for failure? Where is the incentive for success?</em></p> <p>Maybe we should have a law where, every time parliament broke the law, 10% would be removed from all MP's pension pots?</p> <p>Wishful thinking, unfortunately. </p> <p>As you point out, there's no penalty. So, unfortunately, the least painful thing for the politicians is to kick the can down the road. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-149132 Tue, 15 Apr 2014 16:38:34 +0000 neddie 149132@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>But some of the targets are Holyrood/Westminster/EU laws</em></p> <p>What enforcement of these 'laws' is there? What is the punishment for failure? Where is the incentive for success?</p> <p>It is illegal to invade sovereign nations, but that never stopped anyone. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-149129 Tue, 15 Apr 2014 16:29:15 +0000 chdot 149129@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Perhaps the Hackney approach is what's required."</p> <p>Probably</p> <p>"Take away people's ability to own motor vehicles."</p> <p>Don't know what that means in practice. I do know that they have been introducing residents parking to control who can park in particular areas - but not sure how much they have reduced number of spaces. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-149126 Tue, 15 Apr 2014 16:24:27 +0000 acsimpson 149126@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Perhaps the Hackney approach is what's required.</p> <p>"Take away people's ability to own motor vehicles." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-149121 Tue, 15 Apr 2014 16:01:58 +0000 sallyhinch 149121@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Would be cool if there was a POP flyer on every chair at that event... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-149120 Tue, 15 Apr 2014 16:01:48 +0000 chdot 149120@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"It's not going to happen unless it's forced upon people by law."</p> <p>But some of the targets are Holyrood/Westminster/EU laws. </p> <p>It <em>needs</em> local politicians to go this is where we <em>have</em> to be in 2020, these are things that need to be done -</p> <p>inc. restrictions on 'free' movement of motor vehicles. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-149118 Tue, 15 Apr 2014 15:54:15 +0000 gibbo 149118@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>The population of Edinburgh needs to take ownership if the city is to meet the target.</em></p> <p>The problem with that is the sheer number of people who would have to make the same radical changes to their ways of getting around.</p> <p>Add to that the fact that cars are more convenient, public transport is pretty ghastly, and cyclists are a bunch of lycra-wearing subhuman weirdo deathwish losers... </p> <p>It's not going to happen unless it's forced upon people by law.</p> <p>But, as you point out, the sorts of measures required to hit the targets wouldn't be popular. And politics is a popularity contest. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-149110 Tue, 15 Apr 2014 15:28:11 +0000 gembo 149110@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Council won't make this target. They might manage some reduction within their own fleet of vehicles, Lothian buses, council housing? The population of Edinburgh needs to take ownership if the city is to meet the target. Stop using cars for short trips ( school runs, buying the paper). Stop using cars if single occupant. stop using cars. Become vegetarian etc.</p> <p>My hero David begg was the last radical ideas person within the council. He left or was pushed?</p> <p>City of Paris back alternating which cars can be in the city on which days, Athens has done the same in the peat, some people buy two number plates/cars.</p> <p>Council can promote walking, cycling and public transport. Freeze bus and tram fares, ban cars from city centre etc. won't be popular. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-149098 Tue, 15 Apr 2014 13:48:21 +0000 gibbo 149098@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Politicians have many more groups they need to check in with before doing anything.</em></p> <p>That's fair enough. But, before having meaningful discussions with those groups, they can do the proper analysis.</p> <p>For example, if they find the only way for this to happen is to cut car journeys by 60%, then (A) there are only so many ways to approach that and, (B) they all involve radical changes.</p> <p>IMO, it's easy for politicians to make empty commitments to vague targets... but, when you look at the concrete changes that would need to be made - or the options they would have to choose between - then it turns into a joke.</p> <p>I'd far rather we got to the point where the council were forced to admit they're going to increase emissions, than play the 'green game' of "someday something magical will happen". </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-149096 Tue, 15 Apr 2014 13:41:22 +0000 chdot 149096@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Politicians have many more groups they need to check in with before doing anything. Wasn't always like that, but do you really want to go back to the 1950s?"</p> <p>Well...</p> <p>If it's a choice between paralysis by focus group and some leadership tempered by 'learning lessons from the past'... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-149094 Tue, 15 Apr 2014 13:34:39 +0000 Arellcat 149094@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Edinburgh Council's "Sustainable Edinburgh 2020" plan, primarily the 42% reduction in carbon emissions by 2020, and how we can get there.</em></p> <p>Gibbo is right. With great difficulty.</p> <p>For one thing, the 42% is the Climate Change (Scotland) Act target for the nation, and requires a combination of interventions—wholesale reductions (operationally: at source and by proxy) and sequestration (usually by proxy). I'm not suggesting CEC has done this itself, but a number of organisations have adopted the 42% figure without proper consideration of the sheer magnitude of the reduction and what changes would be required in order to deliver it purely by 'turning stuff off' and doing things 'more efficiently'. Some higher performing organisations will choose a smaller performance improvement percentage; some worse performing may need to improve much more. But nationally it's a combination of individual capability and individual proportion.</p> <p>For another thing, remember that electricity currently produces about twice the emissions of burning gas, for the same amount of energy supplied.</p> <p>LED street lighting will deliver huge performance improvements, both in maintenance and efficiency. Tinker with the switching times, but mostly the hours are determined by the sun and by the public safety.</p> <p>And remember that if we're bound by 2020, then interventions must be delivering full payback within that time or be so effective that they drive down energy use and emissions within the timeframe. That may be difficult given that many of the interventions will have non-zero lead times.</p> <p>But is this CEC representing Edinburgh, or CEC itself as a business? Easy to point the finger and say it should rationalise its building stock, invest in sustainable refurbishments and microgeneration, especially for coastal and exposed properties, move to higher efficiency vehicles (e.g. Lothian Buses, but much more). Or if it's the city, do we include the airport? What about energy used in housing—and what is in CEC's power to improve that? (I'm ignoring the little elephant in the room of bikes vs cars vs lorries). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-149086 Tue, 15 Apr 2014 13:21:00 +0000 crowriver 149086@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>If this was a business problem, rather than political hot air, the approach would be simple</em></p> <p>Well yes, but then business chiefs only need to consult shareholders/owners. Oh and comply with any relevant legislation/regulation, so they need to consult lawyers too.</p> <p>Politicians have many more groups they need to check in with before doing anything. Wasn't always like that, but do you really want to go back to the 1950s? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-149081 Tue, 15 Apr 2014 12:50:38 +0000 gibbo 149081@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Edinburgh Council's "Sustainable Edinburgh 2020" plan, primarily the 42% reduction in carbon emissions by 2020, and how we can get there. </em></p> <p>If this was a business problem, rather than political hot air, the approach would be simple: </p> <p>(1) You'd break down the sources of emissions</p> <p>(2) Decide which of these you can reduce and which you can't</p> <p>(3) That gives you how much you need to reduce each of the "reducable" sources</p> <p>(4) Then you'd work out how to cut them</p> <p>Has the council done this? If so, what were their findings? And what are their ideas for cutting what needs to be cut?</p> <p>After all, it's less than 7 years before the deadline... and that's less than 7 years in which they'll, no doubt, have to cut some emissions by over 50%. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-149054 Tue, 15 Apr 2014 11:00:29 +0000 chdot 149054@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>&lt;sustainability@edinburgh.gov.uk&gt;: Recipient address rejected: User unknown</p> <p>"</p> <p>Mmm </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-149053 Tue, 15 Apr 2014 10:57:58 +0000 chdot 149053@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There's a 'video'</p> <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIDdSDwiAGk" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIDdSDwiAGk</a></p> <p>.</p> <p>Brief mention of Car Club - 'each car estimated to replace 24 privately owned ones', and the ATAP. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-149050 Tue, 15 Apr 2014 10:45:26 +0000 chdot 149050@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>View the full colour version of Sustainable Edinburgh 2020 or if you want a printed copy, please download the text-only version.</p> <p>"</p> <p>Except there is no link!!</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20142/sustainable_development_and_fairtrade/841/sustainable_edinburgh_2020" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20142/sustainable_development_and_fairtrade/841/sustainable_edinburgh_2020</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12590#post-149048 Tue, 15 Apr 2014 10:35:31 +0000 SRD 149048@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This came across my desk: </p> <p>Sustainable Edinburgh 2020: How do we get there?</p> <p>"Many of us want Edinburgh to become one of the greenest cities, radically cutting its greenhouse gas emissions and its resource use. We expect that by being sustainable we can improve our quality of life as well. The Sustainable Business Initiative at the University of Edinburgh is co-hosting a meeting with Friends of the Earth Scotland on Edinburgh's 2020 sustainability plan to discuss this.</p> <p>We invite you, who hold interest in Edinburgh's sustainable development, to discuss the future of our city. A panel of 4 will engage with all present participants on issues which centre around Edinburgh Council's "Sustainable Edinburgh 2020" plan, primarily the 42% reduction in carbon emissions by 2020, and how we can get there. The panel consists of Councillor Lesley Hinds (Environment and Transport), Secretary at Edinburgh Trade Union Council Des Loughney, Johanna Carrie from Transition Edinburgh, and Project Director for Scotland's 2020 Climate Group Victoria Barby.</p> <p>We invite you to attend this open participatory dialogue to voice your views in the discussion. Additionally, we invite you to pass this message to others who recognise the value in attending. This meeting will hear what plans are already being made, and what actions are being taken by different sectors of the community and, most importantly, what we have to do to raise our ambitions and hit those targets."</p> <p>Details:<br /> Wednesday 23rd April, 7pm<br /> Auditorium<br /> Edinburgh University Business School<br /> 29 Buccleuch Place<br /> EH8 9JS </p>