http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Cyclist killed in Angus 'horror' smash en Mon, 18 May 2026 18:50:51 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608&page=2#post-153915 Sun, 18 May 2014 20:38:39 +0000 Uberuce 153915@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Update on this, which I got from around the campfire in Forfar: the van driver has since had a brain tumour removed.</p> <p>Pinch of salt is recommended, since it was the campfire, but... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608&page=2#post-149549 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 13:02:12 +0000 neddie 149549@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@sallyhinch</p> <p><em>Otherwise how do we keep riding?</em></p> <p>For me, it is the same reason we keep on driving. I am equally afraid of my family or I being killed inside a car as I am when cycling.</p> <p>Unfortunately, your average car driver is not afraid of dying when they get inside a car and probably never even thinks about it. A significant minority also believe they are invincible. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608&page=2#post-149547 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 11:55:09 +0000 neddie 149547@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There should be a public inquiry into every road fatality. Same as there is for rail/boat/air crashes. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608&page=2#post-149542 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 11:37:05 +0000 chdot 149542@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I'd rather wait to hear the police report"</p> <p>That of course is part of the problem. Details are hardly ever released unless it goes to court. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149540 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 11:34:36 +0000 crowriver 149540@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>If I ever get splattered across the A8 on my daily commute the one place I'd expect to hear outrage is this forum. </em></p> <p>I sincerely hope we won't have to discuss such circumstances. If we did, I would prefer that folk don't act the amateur forensics expert and analyse a situation they are in no position to know anything about, as none of us witnessed the incident. I'm sure we can all hypothesise about the possible circumstances of this man's death. We might feel angry about it, fair enough. How does it help to hypothesise? Rather than jump to conclusions I'd rather wait to hear the police report, or rather what scraps we glean from the media in months to come (if at all). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149521 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 10:09:09 +0000 paul.mag 149521@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@sg37409<br /> "Its possible the cyclist veered wildly off line just as the van was passing"<br /> "How would 40 mph be too fast on that road ? I dont think it would be. " </p> <p>You're right, under normal circumstances I'm sure even 60 is an acceptable speed on that road. However you have to drive with all due care and attention and if you are overtaking a vulnerable road user that means slowing down and giving plenty of space.</p> <p>I don't think anyone on this forum is ghoulish or trying to insert ourselves into tragedy IN THE WAY YOU MEAN*.<br /> @crowriver If I ever get splattered across the A8 on my daily commute the one place I'd expect to hear outrage is this forum. What happened to that cyclist is completely unacceptable, that man was killed because he rode a bike.</p> <p>*We do insert ourselves into these stories as it could have been anyone of us and we need to protect ourselves and have the law protect us as well but the insertion isn't for macabre reasons and to imply it is is poor form. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149515 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 08:42:51 +0000 sallyhinch 149515@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I don't know about anyone else, but whenever I read about a death or injury of a cyclist on the road, there's always part of my mind looking for reasons why that would never happen to ME. Otherwise how do we keep riding? Hence (I think) a lot of the speculation and also what can look like victim blaming. Or maybe we are just ghouls </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149514 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 08:36:21 +0000 minus six 149514@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Trying to find a justification to insert ourselves into someone else's tragedy</em></p> <p>Looking back over this thread, i can't see where anyone has done that?</p> <p>If there was a thread here noting the death of a lion-tamer in a lion's cage, and speculation arose on the likelihood of how that came about, then that might possibly be described as distastefully morbid.</p> <p>But not if it appeared in a forum dedicated specifically to the art of lion-taming. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149500 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 21:10:55 +0000 Instography 149500@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"To describe discussion here as morbid suggests the ghoulish fascination of the curious bystander."</p> <p>Good, I generally make an effort to choose words for their meaning. Whatever our own experiences in other circumstances, and I'm sure we all have our own stories to tell, in this case bystanders is all we are. Trying to find a justification to insert ourselves into someone else's tragedy is indeed morbid. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149492 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 19:00:34 +0000 gembo 149492@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The road is a fast road. Not certain there will be a trial. As I suggested, we should resist the urge to speculate </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149487 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 18:00:21 +0000 minus six 149487@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>To describe discussion here as <em>morbid</em> suggests the ghoulish fascination of the curious bystander.</p> <p>Police comment neutrally on a collision between a cyclist and a van; yet the photographs silently tell their own story.</p> <p>Its a story that many of us have been mere inches away from being fellow victims of, on too many occasions, and that is why discussion remains pertinent.</p> <p>Discussion does not infer any disrespect for the profound tragedy that has taken place here. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149483 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 16:59:35 +0000 crowriver 149483@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not to mention insensitive. A man has just lost his life, for goodness' sake. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149481 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 16:52:12 +0000 Instography 149481@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Hardly think discussion of this on CCE forum will prejudice the trial."</p> <p>Perhaps but it can add nothing to anyone's knowledge of what happened so, to me at least, seems morbid. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149479 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 16:46:47 +0000 sg37409 149479@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Its possible the cyclist veered wildly off line just as the van was passing. But far more likely cause would be van is totally at fault. Its speculation and discussion which is fair enough. Hardly think discussion of this on CCE forum will prejudice the trial.</p> <p>How would 40 mph be too fast on that road ? I dont think it would be. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149465 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 15:34:06 +0000 paul.mag 149465@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A motor vehicle doesn't get that badly damaged by a human being unless it ploughs into them. I agree that deaths can be caused at slow speeds but that level of damage suggests a massive impact. The only area of speculation truly lies with why on what appears to be a long, flat &amp; open road the driver got it so badly wrong. Even if the cyclist was moving around in the lane the pictures suggest the driver would / should have spotted him from quite a distance. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149452 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 14:32:34 +0000 minus six 149452@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>you've seen the state of the windscreen, right?</p> <p>don't care if its 40mph or 70mph</p> <p>its clearly too fast </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149450 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 14:30:59 +0000 crowriver 149450@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think we ought to let the police investigators do their job and refrain from speculation. </p> <p>Another senseless tragedy. Another family bereft. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149446 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 14:16:36 +0000 acsimpson 149446@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>The van driver was going far too fast.</em></p> <p>I would respectfully disagree, many crashes at 40mph are fatal. So other than that fact that there is no acceptable speed to hit a cyclist any comments about speed at pure speculation. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149438 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:26:40 +0000 minus six 149438@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>We don't know enough to say for sure who did what or when, far less why</em></p> <p>Regardless, i think i can narrow that down a bit.</p> <p>The van driver was going far too fast.</p> <p>As is currently deemed acceptable by society, unless of course you've had a drink. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149423 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 12:45:31 +0000 slowcoach 149423@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sad news.<br /> but as above "Speculation to be avoided". We don't know enough to say for sure who did what or when, far less why. Maybe saying otherwise could prevent a fair trial if there is to be one. And from previous cases it might be hard to get corroborated evidence of what we might assume happened.</p> <p><a href="http://www.forfardispatch.co.uk/news/local-news/police-name-cyclist-killed-near-forfar-1-3379583" rel="nofollow">http://www.forfardispatch.co.uk/news/local-news/police-name-cyclist-killed-near-forfar-1-3379583</a></p> <p>Mr Gourlay’s family are understandably upset by their sudden loss and have said that he will be greatly missed. They do not wish to make any further comments and have requested that their privacy is respected at this difficult time." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149398 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 10:36:40 +0000 minus six 149398@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>distinction is clearly made when a child is involved.</p> <p>compare the two incidents yesterday</p> <p>BBC and STV both used the same terminology:</p> <p>"<em>A 10-year-old boy has been airlifted to hospital after being knocked off his bike by a van in Aberdeenshire</em>."</p> <p>"<em>A cyclist has died after a collision with a small van on a rural road in Angus</em>." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149395 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 10:32:43 +0000 Dave 149395@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's really annoying that almost everyone uses the cyclist-blaming format, and tbh I find it hard to understand how that gets past their legal departments.</p> <p>Compare: "a man has died after colliding with a tree" and "a man has died after a tree collided with him". Or the rediculous: "a man is in hospital after colliding with a bullet on the high street".</p> <p>The subject and object of a sentence are totally not interchangeable. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149393 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 10:22:37 +0000 gembo 149393@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Shocking.</p> <p>Speculation to be avoided.</p> <p>Sometimes journalists quote police verbatim</p> <p>Often written as collision between cyclist and car/van and often not the other way round. Difficult to write this without implying where the cause lies.</p> <p>I have a pal who cycles the road on a bianchi so I was speaking to him last night. </p> <p>Terrible. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149389 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 10:12:29 +0000 acsimpson 149389@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What a horrible thing to happen. My condolences to all his family and friends.</p> <p>I know I should be immune to such things but the STV headline really annoys me:</p> <p><strong>A cyclist has died after colliding with a small van on a rural road in Angus.</strong></p> <p>To me this implies action on the part of the cyclist, surely it was the van which collided with the cyclist. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149350 Wed, 16 Apr 2014 22:52:44 +0000 Murun Buchstansangur 149350@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That van has finally managed to stop a ridiculous distance from the remains of the bike. Disgraceful.</p> <p>Hope the police do it right &amp; get the evidence needed. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149328 Wed, 16 Apr 2014 18:58:26 +0000 Focus 149328@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://news.stv.tv/tayside/271834-police-callled-to-serious-road-crash-on-a926-between-maryton-and-kirriemuir/">STV.tv link</a></p> <p>That's significant damage to the front corner for hitting a bike. Another needless loss :-( </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149324 Wed, 16 Apr 2014 18:36:45 +0000 sallyhinch 149324@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If you count the cyclist who was knocked off in December and died on January 8th, that's 4 cyclists killed already this year - basically one a month. Looks like 2014 is shaping up to be as deadly as 2013 </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149308 Wed, 16 Apr 2014 16:29:00 +0000 SimonS 149308@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Stv.com has a picture of the van involved. It does not look as though much of an attempt was made to avoid the cyclist. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149307 Wed, 16 Apr 2014 16:27:57 +0000 Arellcat 149307@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>We don't even know if the collision was rear-end or head-on, or what caused it. But a long straight road you would think would be reasonably safe!</p> <p>(Was going to post more here but think a separate thread would be better) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12608#post-149305 Wed, 16 Apr 2014 16:20:34 +0000 gembo 149305@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This is terrible. Reports suggesting the man killed in his 50s and bike turquoise.?? </p>