http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: 20 mph - consultation coming soon en Tue, 19 May 2026 18:42:45 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=9#post-270325 Wed, 20 Dec 2017 14:53:10 +0000 slowcoach 270325@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Some comments elsewhere have said there has been an increase in road deaths in Bath due to 20mph limits, This might be due to confusing the numbers of casualties who were killed <u>or</u> seriously injured, with the number killed. From accident data online, there has been one fatal casualty in a 20mph limit in Bath.<br /> Details of the coroners inquest were reported in the <a href="http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/news/bath-news/live-inquest-death-92-year-237988">local press </a>. (In short it says a 92-year old pedestrian was startled (but not hit) by a car travelling at 5-10mph or 15mph as it approached. She fell to the ground and hit her head, and later suffered a stroke.) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=9#post-270132 Tue, 19 Dec 2017 09:02:55 +0000 chdot 270132@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Relevant -</p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09jdc7q" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09jdc7q</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=9#post-270130 Tue, 19 Dec 2017 08:55:44 +0000 chdot 270130@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Might be the plan of many who inhabit CCE, I have less confidence that Edinburgh will be at the forefront of a comprehensive revival. </p> <p>"</p> <p>In Scotland, the Enlightenment was characterised by a thoroughgoing empiricism and practicality where the chief values were improvement, virtue, and practical benefit for the individual and society as a whole.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Enlightenment" rel="nofollow">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Enlightenment</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=9#post-270127 Tue, 19 Dec 2017 08:43:52 +0000 I were right about that saddle 270127@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I long for the return of the Scottish enlightenment</em></p> <p>Amen to that, brother. Entirely possible that this is part of @chdot's CCE master plan? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=9#post-270126 Tue, 19 Dec 2017 08:11:46 +0000 gembo 270126@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I shall use the - I am disappointed in you not checking these facts response.</p> <p>I expressed similar disappointment with scot gov in my recent response to their consultation where they cited an OECD report on school autonomy and accountability where sadly our government decided to select a phrase about autonomy helping results whereas the whole report which was pitched more towards totalitarian regimes was about how autonomy Only works if schools are held accountable. UK third most autonomous country in the study yet scot gov conclusion is that we must make schools more autonomous ( no mention of accountability). Very disappointing lack of rigour in a post fact world. I long for the return of the Scottish enlightenment instead of this piffle. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=9#post-270119 Tue, 19 Dec 2017 00:49:33 +0000 unhurt 270119@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em> For some reason this is really annoying me, </em></p> <p>I am aware that zen-like calm is the better reaction, but there's definitely a desire to go full HULK SMASH. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=9#post-270112 Mon, 18 Dec 2017 22:53:40 +0000 gembo 270112@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@jonty, in Bath town centre it had the intended effect. Reduced incidents, yet the council of North Somerset reported the findings in most bizarre way and then anyone who only reads headlines appears to want to repeat it. In this post fact world. For some reason this is really annoying me, </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=9#post-270046 Mon, 18 Dec 2017 12:52:47 +0000 Stickman 270046@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>New blog from 20splenty specifically responding to the Telegraph article:</p> <p><a href="http://www.20splenty.org/freddie_star" rel="nofollow">http://www.20splenty.org/freddie_star</a></p> <p>And from someone else:</p> <p><a href="https://medium.com/@lewisspurgin/20mph-zones-are-not-causing-more-deaths-37d41e30e297" rel="nofollow">https://medium.com/@lewisspurgin/20mph-zones-are-not-causing-more-deaths-37d41e30e297</a></p> <p>Nick Cook and various other Conservatives are enthusiastically sharing the Telegraph article. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=9#post-270041 Mon, 18 Dec 2017 12:09:07 +0000 jonty 270041@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So roughly 50% of areas saw an increase...meaning roughly 50% saw a decrease? The worst you could say from that is that the initiative had no effect, surely. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=9#post-269994 Sun, 17 Dec 2017 23:04:33 +0000 gembo 269994@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Nice rebuttal </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=9#post-269992 Sun, 17 Dec 2017 22:39:13 +0000 Morningsider 269992@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>20's plenty for us have a rather effective take-down of the Bath and North East Somerset Council report, which forms the basis of The Torygraph article:</p> <p><a href="http://www.20splenty.org/banes-report" rel="nofollow">http://www.20splenty.org/banes-report</a></p> <p>TL:DR - it's a steaming pile of doodah. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=9#post-269991 Sun, 17 Dec 2017 22:21:08 +0000 crowriver 269991@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>---</p> <p>The report added: "Casualty severity has worsened marginally in Bath and more so in outlying towns. Again, this is reflective of the national situation." </p> <p>---</p> <p>Yes. Casualties have gone up across the UK. Possibly just folk driving more, plus more drivers texting, checking social media behind the wheel, etc.? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=9#post-269985 Sun, 17 Dec 2017 21:10:19 +0000 gembo 269985@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Would be nice to see last year's stats for Bath and surrounding areas compared to this year's. The actual figures as in the artoclee, the number of incidents is cited as being lower in central bath and higher outwith. Also of course if you click on the 20mph link in the article it takes you to another telegraph article stating 8 out of 10 drivers ignore 20mph signs.</p> <p>The article is all speculation so would be nice to see data. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=9#post-269984 Sun, 17 Dec 2017 20:43:50 +0000 unhurt 269984@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Obviously following RoSPA's evidence that <em>20mph zones in which other traffic calming measures were introduced alongside the reduction in limit were much more effective. </em> would be quite impossible... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=9#post-269983 Sun, 17 Dec 2017 20:36:36 +0000 I were right about that saddle 269983@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Citizens feel relaxed in 20mph zones and drop their anti-car guard, resulting in their death and injury. The solution? Keep them on their toes with increased speed limits. 40mph say?</p> <p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/17/20mph-limit-dangerous-costly-reverse-council-admits/" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/17/20mph-limit-dangerous-costly-reverse-council-admits/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=9#post-214280 Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:18:58 +0000 crowriver 214280@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Aha. Okay, so we just have to find out from Historic Environment Scotland (dreadful new name) when they will be "reviewing the remainder of Queen’s Drive in conjunction with future implementation phases", if at all...</p> <p>Good that the 20mph will be extended slightly, however the problems in Holyrood Park remain:</p> <p>- Queen's Drive limit too fast at 30mph<br /> - Speed limits widely flouted in any case </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=8#post-214279 Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:12:30 +0000 chdot 214279@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Although the Council has the authority to set speed limits on private roads, in this particular case, where separate regulatory powers can apply, the road has been removed from the TRO to avoid any confusion between the two."</p> <p>"</p> <p>How <strike>quaint</strike> convenient. </p> <p>Only possibility for "confusion" is if HES refuses to accept that CEC has the power. </p> <p>Why would it want to do that?? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=8#post-214274 Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:06:45 +0000 SRD 214274@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I asked one of my councillors to find out what was going on with queen's drive. reply arrived today:</p> <p>"Holyrood Park, within which Queen’s Drive lies, has Royal Park status and is managed by Historic Environment Scotland which has its own regulatory powers. In this context, the section of Queen’s Drive between Meadowbank and Horse Wynd roundabout is already 20mph and that status will remain.</p> <p>Following agreement with Historic Environment Scotland, the section between Horse Wynd and Holyrood Gait roundabouts will become 20mph as part of the implementation of Phase 1 of the city wide rollout.</p> <p>It is understood that Historic Environment Scotland is reviewing the remainder of Queen’s Drive in conjunction with future implementation phases.</p> <p>Although the Council has the authority to set speed limits on private roads, in this particular case, where separate regulatory powers can apply, the road has been removed from the TRO to avoid any confusion between the two." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=8#post-213051 Fri, 26 Feb 2016 22:13:39 +0000 crowriver 213051@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Okay, scratch that rant above about Maryfield. I had failed to recall the distinction between Maryfield, which is indeed a cup-de-sac, and Maryfield Place adjacent, which is the aforementioned rat run route.</p> <p>My point regarding Queen's Drive still stands though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=8#post-213037 Fri, 26 Feb 2016 18:56:11 +0000 crowriver 213037@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm appalled that they have removed Maryfield from the 20mph zone. It is not a cul-de-sac. It can be argued this street is so narrow it would be impossible to exceed 20mph (cars parked on both sides, narrowed to one lane effectively, and one way only). However the residential street is used as a rat run by motorists avoiding the traffic lights at the top of Easter Road, and drivers frequently turn too fast into Rossie Place, making the end of that street needlessly hazardous.</p> <p>Presumably they'll have to install signage at the junction with Rossie Place anyway, so why not just install it at Maryfield's junction with London Road?</p> <p>I'm also appalled they are removing Queen's Drive from the 20mph zone. </p> <p>The real solution for both these stretches of road would be to block through traffic, making them access only. This is particularly true of Maryfield, but if Holyrood Park is to fulfil its potential as a park rather than an urban ring road route, it needs to happen there too.</p> <p>I feel a letter of objection coming on... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=8#post-213036 Fri, 26 Feb 2016 18:10:37 +0000 Rob 213036@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I wasn't sure what that meant. They accidentally added all of Queen's Drive (and other roads) to it when they only meant to add part of it?</p> <p>It isn't clear which part of Queen's Drive is being removed. The part up the hill perhaps? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=8#post-213035 Fri, 26 Feb 2016 18:05:29 +0000 Greenroofer 213035@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I've always thought the signage <a href="https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.9282938,-3.2094235,3a,75y,73.96h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sP4soJuZpNRPnd0coynpUGQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DP4soJuZpNRPnd0coynpUGQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D62.83503%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656">here</a> was a bit OTT </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=8#post-213034 Fri, 26 Feb 2016 17:58:12 +0000 neddie 213034@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And...</p> <p><em>"This</em> [removal from the citywide order is] <em>generally required as the full street has been included within the Order as 20mph, when this should only apply to a section of the road."</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=8#post-213033 Fri, 26 Feb 2016 17:56:52 +0000 jonty 213033@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I had a look at a few of the other roads and that seems to make sense. Fair enough. </p> <p>I believe some of the disingenuous opposition to 20mph limits somewhere (Bath maybe?) centred on it being a "waste of money" on streets like that where you wouldn't be able to get up to 20 - although given that this was *after* the signs had been installed, I'm not sure what they were hoping to achieve. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=8#post-213031 Fri, 26 Feb 2016 17:43:06 +0000 Rob 213031@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"There are a small number of streets, or sections of streets, which are to be removed from the citywide Order. This generally required as the full street has been included within the Order as 20mph, when this should only apply to a section of the road.<br /> A number of cul-de-sacs adjoining 30mph roads were also included within the city wide Order. To reduce the speed limit in these cul-de-sacs would require a significant amount of new signage when, due to the nature of theses streets, it is not expected that vehicles would ever exceed 20mph. As such it is proposed that these streets are not included within the 20mph network.<br /> It is proposed that these streets, listed in Appendix 2, are removed from the Order."</em></p> <p>The list above is Appendix 2. The note about cul-de-sacs explains Provost Haugh. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=8#post-213030 Fri, 26 Feb 2016 17:31:10 +0000 jonty 213030@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><ul><li>Provost Haugh</li></ul></p> <p><a href="https://goo.gl/maps/LPhHq7tB7Nx" rel="nofollow">https://goo.gl/maps/LPhHq7tB7Nx</a></p> <p>Hrmm. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=8#post-213028 Fri, 26 Feb 2016 17:12:47 +0000 shuggiet 213028@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Queen's Drive?.. Is that removing the existing tiny 20mph zone, or just not turning the current racetrack with a nominal 30mph limit into a limit suitable for a park.. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=8#post-213026 Fri, 26 Feb 2016 16:46:23 +0000 neddie 213026@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The council have proposed some amendments to the citywide 20mph as per TRO/16/09.</p> <p>The following streets are to be removed from the citywide order (20mph):</p> <p><ul><li>Bankhead Drive Section parallel to tram line (Cultins Road to Broomhouse Road)</li><li>Dreghorn Link All except cul-de-sac section at Nos. 28-50</li><li>Harvest Wynd</li><li>Johnsburn Green</li><li>Lochend Road, Newbridge North of No. 24</li><li>Lonehead Drive</li><li>Main Street, Dalmeny East of existing village gateway near No. 1</li><li>Maryfield</li><li>Meadow Place Road Forrester Park Avenue to Ladywell Road</li><li>Niddrie Mains Road Niddrie Marischal Road to Duddingston Park South / The Wisp</li><li>Pentland Terrace All except Nos. 1 – 13A</li><li>Pilmuir Grove</li><li>Provost Haugh</li><li>Silverknowes Road North of Silverknowes Parkway</li><li>South Gyle Crescent All except Nos. 11 – 15/1</li><li>Station Loan</li><li>Stenhouse Drive From No. 75 north-west to Saughton Road</li><li>Stirling Road, Kirkliston West of Kirklands Park Street</li><li>Westfield Road Westfield Avenue to Roseburn Street</li><li>Queen’s Drive</li><br /> </ul> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=8#post-209641 Mon, 25 Jan 2016 21:43:38 +0000 threefromleith 209641@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@stickman I imagine that the EEN commenters would use that to argue we should do away with bus and cycle lanes - 'why should we leave a couple of lanes empty when they're rarely used?'</p> <p>On the other hand, I suppose you could argue that we should do away with on-street parking. That'd free up another lane we could then use to increase road capacity, just like the escalator frees up the 'walking only' side to fit more standees. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12659&page=8#post-209539 Sun, 24 Jan 2016 22:24:34 +0000 deckard112 209539@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Courier story about the impact on casualties over a decade of 20mph limits in Fife, posted a couple of days ago. </p> <p><a href="http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/fife/extremely-positive-fall-in-casualty-figures-during-decade-of-20mph-zones-1.920992" rel="nofollow">http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/fife/extremely-positive-fall-in-casualty-figures-during-decade-of-20mph-zones-1.920992</a> </p>