http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "Lothian speeding fines double to £1000 a day" en Fri, 22 May 2026 09:50:18 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-157510 Fri, 20 Jun 2014 14:26:05 +0000 acsimpson 157510@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Roibeard, <em>How can one suspended driver possibly mean the employment of three?</em></p> <p>I guess if the three other drivers all have to obey the speed limit they would take longer to get to where they are going.</p> <p>@Dave, <em>Yet exceptional hardship is not available as a carte blanche for people being sent to jail - why not?</em><br /> Sadly a quick google search on "narrowly avoided jail" suggest people can and do wiggle their way out of what you or I would probably think should be custodial sentences and not just for driving. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-157503 Fri, 20 Jun 2014 13:57:50 +0000 Dave 157503@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's hard to understand why the "exceptional hardship" thing exists at all. Getting a driving ban is much, much less inconvenient than being sent to jail - worst case scenario it costs you roughly the minimum wage to pay someone to drive you around. Yet exceptional hardship is not available as a carte blanche for people being sent to jail - why not? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-157453 Fri, 20 Jun 2014 10:03:11 +0000 Min 157453@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>he admitted a charge of driving at 50mph in a 30mph zone.</em></p> <p>And that is more than just a few mph over the speed limit here. That is very deliberate speeding. </p> <p>What a joke. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-157447 Fri, 20 Jun 2014 09:52:19 +0000 Snowy 157447@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hang on, I've thought of a solution.</p> <p>Sack him, and employ a manager who hasn't lost their licence to drive through repeated criminal acts. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-157445 Fri, 20 Jun 2014 09:50:17 +0000 crowriver 157445@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Dundee FC could always buy him a nice bicycle, and a bus pass. Even a train season ticket. Then he'd still be able to get out and about to schools, opponents' grounds, visit the family, and so on. Train service to Dundee is pretty good. Cheaper than three chauffeurs too. </p> <p>Or would it look <em>unprofessional</em> to roll up on a two wheeler instead of emerging from his BMW 7 series coupé? Is this really all about status and convenience? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-157443 Fri, 20 Jun 2014 09:33:57 +0000 Roibeard 157443@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Remember he's not only a football manager, but also does the work of three drivers [1].</p> <p>I'm surprised he finds the time to visit his family.</p> <p>[1] Hang on - three (3) drivers? How can one suspended driver possibly mean the employment of three? Or is this a tacit admission that amateur drivers/professional managers spend more hours per day/week driving than would be acceptable for a professional driver/amateur manager?</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-157441 Fri, 20 Jun 2014 09:26:13 +0000 crowriver 157441@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Dundee chief executive Scot Gardiner said: “We would have to employ three drivers to drive him about if he lost his licence and that would not work with our budget.”</em></p> <p>I don't suppose it ever occurred to Dundee FC that Hartley could pay for a driver out of his (presumably substantial) salary?</p> <p>Someone who needs their vehicle to keep a job to feed a family on the breadline will suffer extreme hardship if they can't drive. A footballer, or football manager, will not. Neither will a football club, even if it is only Dundee FC. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-157427 Fri, 20 Jun 2014 06:52:00 +0000 gibbo 157427@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Another "12-pointer plays the poor-mouth card" 'success' story.</em></p> <p>When I see stories like this, I want to ask: did he acquire all these points in one week? </p> <p><em>"Hartley told the JP that he would not be able do his job if he was banned."</em></p> <p>Then why did he keep speeding? Surely there was a point where one more offence meant he couldn't do his job... so he kept speeding...</p> <p>If he didn't care, why should the courts care?</p> <p>And, if he's unbannable (probably not a word), doesn't that mean he's going to continue to speed?</p> <p>PS And how expensive is a chauffeur? Too expensive for a football manager to hire? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-157419 Thu, 19 Jun 2014 23:20:02 +0000 wishicouldgofaster 157419@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Is he and other such speedsters now immune to a ban. What happens if he speeds again? Surely there must be a point where the judge will say enough is enough and ignore the extreme hardship.</p> <p>It is mental though that the safety of law abiding citizens is compromised in favour of people breaking the law :( </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-157418 Thu, 19 Jun 2014 23:10:49 +0000 le_soigneur 157418@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Another "<a href="http://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/news/local/dundee-boss-paul-hartley-escapes-driving-ban-after-plea-1.420525">12-pointer plays the poor-mouth card</a>" 'success' story. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-151068 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 23:15:09 +0000 Instography 151068@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Indeed. It's entirely victimless. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-151063 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 22:22:47 +0000 crowriver 151063@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>A true test might simply be that it reduces the degree or extent of speeding.<br /> </em></p> <p>Presumably this is the reason why petrolheads and their apologists are up in arms? They want to be free to drive however fast they see fit. As long as no one is killed, where's the harm, they reason.</p> <p>Folk with such attitudes should be compelled to walk or cycle along a fast, busy, winding rural road with no pavement and high hedges/walls on either side. As long as they're not killed, where's the harm? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-151056 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 21:42:18 +0000 Instography 151056@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It hardly needs said that Neil Greig is wrong that “The true test of this strategy will be whether it leads to reduced road deaths and injuries." Communities are often very keen for speed limits to be enforced in spite of there having been no deaths or injuries. In this village, just to take a random example, people are often very critical of drivers ignoring the 20mph speed limit because it makes the narrow roads <strong>feel</strong> much less safe and makes people more nervous of allowing children to walk the 100 yards to school on their own. A true test might simply be that it reduces the degree or extent of speeding. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-151047 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 20:54:49 +0000 crowriver 151047@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Bleh. Mis-post. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-151026 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:45:56 +0000 Morningsider 151026@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>crowriver - spot on. The fixed penalty notice system operates under the provisions of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, which is reserved.</p> <p>Control of speed limits in Scotland has been (almost) completely devolved to Scottish Ministers under the Scotland Act 2012. I'm not aware of any plans to devolve control over road traffic offences or their enforcement to Scottish Ministers. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-151025 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:45:23 +0000 Kim 151025@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The Culture of the <a href="http://www.kimharding.net/blog/?p=1666&amp;cpage=1#comment-1118">Sacred Driving Licence</a> lives on... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-151018 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 18:40:10 +0000 crowriver 151018@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>The level of fixed penalty notices for speeding are set by the UK Government.</em></p> <p>Another 'reserved matter' presumably. Is this linked to various bits of road traffic regulation that are also reserved, eg. road markings, speed limits, etc.? </p> <p>If speed limits are to be/have been devolved will speeding fines be also? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-151005 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 16:41:30 +0000 Morningsider 151005@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Cash from speeding fines goes to HM Treasury. Speed camera partnerships get their funding directly from the Scottish Government - they used to be self financing, but motorist groups kept complaining that speed cameras were simply a cash cow so now the general taxpayer has to pay for them, instead of speeding motorists.</p> <p>Parking fines in Edinburgh go to the Council, who pay a private contractor to undertake parking enforcement duties (in some areas this is still the responsibility of the police). The Council probably make some profit from this - but unlikely to be that much. Local authorities set the level of fines - but in practice they all stick to the levels set out in Scottish Government "guidance".</p> <p>The level of fixed penalty notices for speeding are set by the UK Government. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-151004 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 16:40:50 +0000 acsimpson 151004@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's a shame they can't use it as revenue generating really. Imagine how much the average policeman could make the force in a day if the fines from ASL encroachers was kept.<br /> Thousands of extra police could then be hired to do "the real policing". </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-151003 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 16:34:17 +0000 AKen 151003@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Speeding fines disappear directly into central govt coffers. Neither the council nor the police get a penny directly. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-150999 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 16:18:55 +0000 gembo 150999@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That Tory seems to be stealing his lines from Keith brown</p> <p>The council has a big deficit they should look to hike up parking charges and whoever the revenue goes to for speeding ? Should definitely increase fixed penalty if this is possible? police Scotland or traffic attendants must deliver some to scot gov? Or local,authority? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-150997 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 15:52:38 +0000 minus six 150997@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Scottish Tory transport spokesman Alex Johnstone MSP said the figures were simply more evidence of “the anti-motorist agenda”</em></p> <p><img src="http://www.scottishconservatives.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/amp1101AlexJohnstoneMSP2-217x300.jpg"></p> <p>Remember to vote, kids </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-150975 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 14:26:00 +0000 Instography 150975@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I remember one conversation with Mike when he was complaining about being issued a parking fine. It went something like: </p> <p>him: complain, unfair, complain, vultures lurking, complain<br /> me: were you parked illegally?<br /> him: err, yes<br /> me: shut up then. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-150971 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 14:06:27 +0000 crowriver 150971@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>---<br /> Mike Stevenson @Thinktastic · Apr 28<br /> Mike has clearly touched a nerve with this story in yesterday's Sunday Times! The phones are ringing off the hook... <a href="http://fb.me/1sRhTXncE" rel="nofollow">http://fb.me/1sRhTXncE</a> </p> <p>---</p> <p>Mike Stevenson @Thinktastic · Apr 28<br /> Mike's been interviewed today by @bbcradioscot @kingdomfm @RadioForthNews @edinburghpaper lots of interest from the @thesundaytimes article</p> <p>---</p> <p>Loath as i am to give this man any further publicity, perhaps some engagement from non-motoring interest groups could "inspire" Mike in another direction? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-150962 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 13:38:34 +0000 crowriver 150962@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Edinburgh-based public policy strategy group Thinktastic, which obtained the figures, said the results supported the view that mobile cameras were principally a “revenue raising exercise”.</p> <p>Mike Stevenson, its managing director, said: “There is already a great deal of cynicism in Edinburgh brought about by failed traffic management efforts, higher parking charges and, of course, the trams.</p> <p>“Now, when people see that revenue from non-fixed speeding cameras is getting ever higher because the police seem to be targeting low-hanging fruit rather than accident hotspots.”</em></p> <p>Who the hell are "Thunktastic" and why does their opinion matter?<br /> Ah. "which obtained the figures". Then presumably rang the Chipwrapper? Is that what they mean by "<a href="http://www.thinktastic.co.uk/index.php/about/">inspiring motivational speaking</a>"?</p> <p>I'd say there's nothing much "tastic" about Mike Stevenson's thinking. Just the usual knee jerk petrolhead mindset we're used to reading in "the papers".</p> <p>But hey, let's allow Mike to "inspire" us with his 'tastic thunks:</p> <p>"“Every organisation has its ‘naysayers’ and they exist at all levels,” he says. “Too often we yield to their influence. which holds us back at a time of unprecedented opportunity. I am talking about the ‘it’ll never work’ brigade whose instinct is to strangle new ideas at birth. They inhibit risk taking and thwart innovation..."<br /> <a href="http://www.openscotlandmag.com/thinktastic-founder-thinks-big/">Linkie</a></p> <p>Amen to that, brother.</p> <p>"Imagine if a 10-year-old Chris Hoy's dream of becoming an Olympic gold medal cyclist had been shattered, rather than supported."</p> <p>Absolutely!</p> <p>"Let's rise above the knee-jerk response of saying, 'no,' and instead look for opportunities, rediscovering that gold nugget of human resourcefulness."<br /> <a href="http://www.teachingscotland.org.uk/education-in-scotland/scotlands-education-system/37-in-my-view-mike-stevenson.aspx">Linkie</a></p> <p>Yeah! I can believe in that.</p> <p>"“At the moment there’s a real energy in Scotland around new ideas and approaches and every field and sector is facing the challenge of some level of reinvention. I believe we are in the midst of a change that will dwarf the Industrial Revolution in its scale and pace. Digitalisation offers unprecedented opportunities of course, but we must also be mindful that consumer values are shifting fast and companies that position people and the good of the planet alongside profit will find that they are the most successful. Others will be quickly found out."</p> <p>Wow. Just wow. Revolution, dude!</p> <p>Apparently though when it comes to motorists speeding, things are different, eh, Mike?</p> <p>P.S.:- <a href="https://twitter.com/Thinktastic">Mike's on Twotter</a> if anyone wants to point out some inconsistencies in his "motivatonal" approach. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-150958 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 13:32:54 +0000 DaveC 150958@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I was caught speding once, in 2006 doing 34 in a 30 limit in Cambridge. I took a wrong turn and doubled back at the next roundabout and was caught trying to catchup. My mistake, and I paid the fine and received my 3 points for it. I didn't speed (much) after that, <strong>but one thing it did teach me:</strong></p> <p>When I renewed my insurance, with 3 points they wanted another £50 to insure me. I tried another insurer and got the same insurance for my old (pre points) licence (I did tell them!)</p> <p>This goes to show that having 3 points on your licence is nothing out of the ordinary to insurers and at most the penalty is not that great as to change any driving behaviour? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-150946 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 12:48:22 +0000 acsimpson 150946@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I quite like the Sweedish system of means tested speeding fines. A single fine could then be more than the annual total that way. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-150944 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 12:44:26 +0000 Snowy 150944@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>All this tells me is that the fines are not yet high enough to prevent people from driving dangerously by speeding. Perhaps if it was a 6 point offence and a £500 fine, the offence would be treated by drivers more in line with the potential consequences. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12700#post-150938 Tue, 29 Apr 2014 12:16:33 +0000 chdot 150938@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/lothian-speeding-fines-double-to-1000-a-day-1-3392195" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/lothian-speeding-fines-double-to-1000-a-day-1-3392195</a></p> <p>Still not much! </p>