http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Sorry ... helmet related en Mon, 01 Jun 2026 05:15:56 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704&page=2#post-151636 Fri, 02 May 2014 20:06:27 +0000 Greenroofer 151636@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ARobComp: the thing I found interesting when looking at the Headway stats was that I couldn't find anything that said 'number of people each year who sustain life-changing brain injury <em>by accident</em> and causes of those accidents'. </p> <p>It's clear that a large part of their work is on non-accidental brain injury (strokes and the like). It's also clear that their stats talk about admissions to hospital for brain injuries (concussion and the like, I suppose) without saying how many of those are permanently affected.</p> <p>I think it's right they campaign to make boxing safer: the point of boxing, after all, is to inflict brain injury on your opponent. I would guess that their next target should be brain injury caused by car collisons, because I'll bet that that is the most common cause of accidental brain injury (although I've got no evidence for that!).</p> <p>Cycling should be <em>way</em> down their list of priorities. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704&page=2#post-151626 Fri, 02 May 2014 18:55:30 +0000 gembo 151626@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@arobcomp, Your stance is same as mine when I heard about creationists giving inputs to school assemblies. But still they do...... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704&page=2#post-151572 Fri, 02 May 2014 13:13:20 +0000 twinspark 151572@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Full Disclosure - I wear a Helmet 99% of the time. The kids wear a helmet 100% of the time.</p> <p>As a Parent Bikeability volunteer, I asked about the compulsion aspect as children / their parents may have other entirely acceptable choices. I was told it was policy that the kids have to have helmets for the training and accept that as I want kids to cycle, for this to be a norm and for this good habit to continue throughout their lives.</p> <p>That said I don't think there *SHOULD* be any form of Compulsion.</p> <p>I always tell the kids doing the training that the helmet isn't going to save them if a lorry drives over them, nor will it make them invincible and immune to injury. I always tell them that regardless of the fact that they may be in the "right", if there is an action that they can take which will prevent an accident to either themselves or somebody else then they should take it and that this applies to whether they are cycling, walking or when they are older driving, flying or sailing. Being in the "right" and having, for example "right of way" and not braking whilst possibly being a moral victory is meaningless if they end up injured or dead.</p> <p>I'd be worried about helmet wearing being presented as a panacea that will protect them. With airbags in cars, nobody dies at the wheel now do they? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704&page=2#post-151566 Fri, 02 May 2014 12:41:41 +0000 slowcoach 151566@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Insto re "Some of them had arrived on bicycles and taken their helmets off to climb." There have been several children killed by cycle helmet straps strangling them after getting caught on climbimg frames etc. (according to a <a href="http://www.bhsi.org/playgrou.htm">pro-helmet website</a>) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704&page=2#post-151559 Fri, 02 May 2014 12:01:11 +0000 ARobComp 151559@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From an objective point of view I'm not sure, having read the cherry picking nature of the statistics from Headway, that they could not be considered a "pressure group", and therefore should not be allowed a stage in a school. Effectively they are politicising the issue, I think that some basic coaching on common sense while playing, and perhaps some fun games led by an instructor around drop and roll style falling, with perhaps a wee leaflet would be appropriate and in line with other messages that children (and parents receive). </p> <p>An assembly telling children they'll die/be maimed if they ride a bike without a helmet is probably not to be considered beneficial. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704&page=2#post-151471 Fri, 02 May 2014 07:54:57 +0000 gembo 151471@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@insto- offering to drive over the helmet (and head) is logical but if you will forgive me at the Jeremy Clarkson level of non advanced logic. So combined with skotl's point it does seem that Clarkson logic works with younger children...... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704&page=2#post-151461 Fri, 02 May 2014 01:11:05 +0000 Instography 151461@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"How does one put the opposing point of view? How does one challenge the school when this kind of thing happens without coming across as a complete nutcase?"</p> <p>You don't. Your responsibilities extend no further than you and yours. When my son came home from cubs with the idea that a helmet would save him if he got hit by a lorry I offered to drive over his helmeted head, if he was that convinced. I'd rather have driven over the cub leader. Turned out he wasn't so sure. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704&page=2#post-151453 Fri, 02 May 2014 00:16:05 +0000 skotl 151453@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Interesting debate. On the topic of how children view the safety / danger aspect of cycling, my eight year old son and I watched an episode of Top Gear (which we both love) a few weeks ago, where there were several spoof adverts which paraphrased "I earn money, I bought a car. Don't cycle, cos you'll die".</p> <p>I just thought it was a bit of humour until last week when my son suggested to me that I should drive to work, because I could afford to. If I cycled "I would probably be killed". Thanks, Clarkson...</p> <p>Back to the helmet (and the helmet wars debate), I am pro-choice in pretty much all of its forms. My choice, however is that me and my family will wear a helmet because I would prefer to have 2" of polystyrene between my, my wife's or my son's head and the concrete or a car, should contact occur. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151447 Thu, 01 May 2014 22:03:10 +0000 gembo 151447@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I would estimate that quite a few schools do have religious assemblies and / or ministers giving more secular presentations. Humanists and atheists would struggle.to get slots to counter this. Maybe Richard Dawkins does get slots.?</p> <p>PoP I could see getting a gig but an anti-headway group not sure how that could be pitched? </p> <p>Rational society? In my younger days I tried the Wason four card problem at a class assembly. You have a rule vowels on front will have even number on back and you show a vowel a consonant an odd number and an even number and ask which cards you turn over to prove the rule. Supposedly children can do this if you have envelopes sealed and unsealed and stamp, no stamp..........what was I doing?</p> <p>I think having an anti helmet compulsion assembly might be similar? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151444 Thu, 01 May 2014 21:37:59 +0000 Greenroofer 151444@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@gembo - exactly. How does one get an alternative view presented to the children? My own children I can handle, it's the rest that I worry about.</p> <p>I assume that the school doesn't allow evangelical religious groups to preach to assembly. I think that this is the same: it's a group of people with a sincerely-held view who may (quite understandably) present an argument to support that view to the exclusion of others. My concern is that there are alternative views, and that they need an airing too. How practical is it to have someone else stand up and say "that's what they think, now this is what I think"...and what would 6-year olds make of it anyway?</p> <p>Clearly, for older children there's an interesting piece of homework to do on picking apart the Headway statistics and getting them to think about what they <em>actually</em> say. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151442 Thu, 01 May 2014 21:33:26 +0000 SRD 151442@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks for that post greenroofer. I'd been similarly wondering myself. Thinking maybe I'd refuse to let her attend? But suppose that goes against my principles too. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151441 Thu, 01 May 2014 21:19:42 +0000 gembo 151441@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Kids might come home thinking they are OK as they wear helmets?</p> <p>Greenroofer are you looking to take the debate to the school? In this hypothetical scenario not sure how that would work. Assembly booked, headway coming etc? You can always discuss with your own children. Fortunately kids not always impressed by assembly talks? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151439 Thu, 01 May 2014 20:57:00 +0000 Greenroofer 151439@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Are we allowed to discuss the original point here, still?</p> <p>If so, what should I do if it turns out that Headway are coming to my children's school and I disagree with their premise that somehow cycling is massively more dangerous than the playground or the car and so you've got to wear special stuff to do it otherwise you're going to be brain-injured. I'm sure that they are well-intentioned, and I am sure that they see lots of dreadful brain injuries of people who've been injured in all kinds of ways: bicycles, car accidents, simply falling over, horses, playgrounds and so on, but that doesn't mean that I agree with them.</p> <p>My children wear helmets on their bikes, for the reasons @condor2378 cited above, but I've not majored on the risk of brain injury with them because I know that cycling isn't dangerous. I'd be worried that they'd come back from a presentation like this thinking that cycling's so dangerous they don't want to do it because they saw a thing about someone who had an accident and is now in a wheelchair.</p> <p>How does one put the opposing point of view? How does one challenge the school when this kind of thing happens without coming across as a complete nutcase? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151435 Thu, 01 May 2014 20:19:27 +0000 chdot 151435@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Please continue this on <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427">THE Helmet Thread</a>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151434 Thu, 01 May 2014 20:08:03 +0000 le_soigneur 151434@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This is rumour control. These are the facts * &lt;intake of breath&gt;<br /> <em>Paul.Mag: is it a rule in TdF that cyclists must wear a helmet?</em><br /> All UCI races have compulsory helmet wearing, since May 2003. All SCU &amp; BCF races have had compulsory helmet rules since 1991.<br /> (Professional road racer fatalities have actually gone up since the introduction of this rule.)</p> <p>* <em>Aliens</em> reference </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151433 Thu, 01 May 2014 19:23:03 +0000 gembo 151433@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My main issue with the helmet debate is....oh wait, I have said it before on the other threads, oh go on, ok then, .....is, it soaks up energy that should be directed towards bad driving and better infrastructure.</p> <p>My kids wear helmets. I had one on today, wind, east , rain hard, cold, first morning commute in traffic for weeks, quite glad of it keeping my head warm. Last year at POP2 I came in the canal wearing tweed bunnet and joined up with certain discerning tweedinistas by accident as I knew them from here but no inkling we would all be tweeded up.</p> <p>Smattering of tweed this year but not so many tweed bunnets? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151303 Thu, 01 May 2014 11:54:30 +0000 zesty 151303@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@rust, why? I'm just stating my opinion and agreement with paul </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151299 Thu, 01 May 2014 11:45:19 +0000 rust 151299@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Zesty, see Gembo's comment above,</p> <p><em>"I am not keen on opinion as fact that appears on all sides of helmet debate."</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151298 Thu, 01 May 2014 11:44:31 +0000 chdot 151298@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That's fine. </p> <p>It started as a legitimate 'other' thread - school/Headway. </p> <p>Anyway it's not like the old days where there were two venomous camps and I had to close threads!!!</p> <p>It's personal choice at CCE - <em>with</em> (perhaps) the emphasis on <em>informed</em>. </p> <p>You might like to mention that on <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427">THE Helmet Thread</a>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151295 Thu, 01 May 2014 11:39:15 +0000 paul.mag 151295@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot apologies for not sticking to the correct thread. :-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151275 Thu, 01 May 2014 10:26:54 +0000 zesty 151275@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm in agreement with paul.mag on this, it wont save your life if hit by a car but a fall at mild speed then it'll probably save your noggin.</p> <p>Always wear one and would expect my kids to wear theirs as well. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151274 Thu, 01 May 2014 10:20:49 +0000 chdot 151274@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Don't forget <em>everyone</em> there is <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427">THE Helmet Thread</a></p> <p>@ paul.mag</p> <p>"I really don't understand why people are so very against wearing one"</p> <p>See <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427">THE Helmet Thread</a></p> <p>Reasons include </p> <p>'personal choice' - you have made yours. </p> <p>scepticism about effectiveness (and claims of) - you have made a choice based on <em>your own</em> risk assessment. </p> <p>'general public health reasons' i.e. belief that (compulsory) helmet requirements reduce amount of cycling/healthy activity. </p> <p>notions of 'victim blaming' - 'must' have hi-viz, helmets etc. countries with high cycle use tend not to use 'safety equipment'. Clearly some people in UK will use helmets/hi-viz until they think roads/drivers are 'safe'. </p> <p>Personal choice. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151272 Thu, 01 May 2014 10:12:30 +0000 fimm 151272@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Here is the thread:<br /> <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10427</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151266 Thu, 01 May 2014 09:46:33 +0000 Instography 151266@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>No one said they were so very against wearing them. Some people just don't. I don't and I don't force my kids to. They have them, they can wear them if they want to. </p> <p>I grazed my scalp and bled a little once when I fell off my bike. I once split my head wide open and bled like a pig over my nice shirt (but that was in the garage where helmets aren't even suggested). So, helmets, meh. I do more damage with chisels and knives. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151258 Thu, 01 May 2014 09:18:20 +0000 paul.mag 151258@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I've been knocked off my bike twice now and the light that I have on the back of my helmet was smashed on both occasions. I believe that had I not been wearing a helmet I'd have sustained more damage so for me it's a no brainer, ahem. I really don't understand why people are so very against wearing one. I agree it wont save your life if you're in a serious accident but if you come off at mild speed and your head hits the ground it'll probably stop you splitting your head over. Just out of curiosity is it a rule in TdF that cyclists must wear a helmet? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151241 Wed, 30 Apr 2014 22:08:36 +0000 gembo 151241@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What happened to The Helmet Thread?</p> <p>I am against compulsion</p> <p>I caused uproar in Balerno by not having a helmet on the other day, kids flinging bricks at me etc.</p> <p>I am not keen on opinion as fact that appears on all sides of helmet debate. </p> <p>I did like when we wrapped the debate up into one thread.</p> <p>I can see this is slightly different angle, fair enough </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151194 Wed, 30 Apr 2014 17:10:12 +0000 wee folding bike 151194@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My kid's school sent letters home about this kind of thing which I assume was aimed at me and/or my boys as nobody else used a bike without one.</p> <p>A couple of years ago number 3 son's teacher made comments about these things.</p> <p>Luckily my boys don't give much weight to comments from the HT or the guy in question. Number 3 regularly had to correct the guy's arithmetic. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151183 Wed, 30 Apr 2014 16:32:39 +0000 acsimpson 151183@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Interesting that none of their seven key cycling facts states that wearing a helmet reduces the risk of becoming a KSI figure.</p> <p>They also don't tell you how many fewer journey 14 year old cyclists made after helmets became compulsory. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151170 Wed, 30 Apr 2014 15:11:49 +0000 I were right about that saddle 151170@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"The plea for all cyclists to wear helmets comes from the family of Ryan Smith, a 16-year-old Lincolnshire schoolboy who was knocked off his bike by a van. Ryan, who was not wearing a helmet, has been in a coma for the past five weeks."</p> <p>No plea for all van drivers not to direct their vehicles into adolescent cyclists. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12704#post-151167 Wed, 30 Apr 2014 15:07:15 +0000 amir 151167@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Headway have obviously got a bee in their bonnet (sorry) about helmets. See the key facts page:</p> <p><a href="https://www.headway.org.uk/key-facts-and-statistics.aspx" rel="nofollow">https://www.headway.org.uk/key-facts-and-statistics.aspx</a></p> <p>No breakdown of causes of brain injury and some rather one-sided stats on cycle injuries. And on their position statements (<a href="https://www.headway.org.uk/position-statements.aspx)" rel="nofollow">https://www.headway.org.uk/position-statements.aspx)</a>, they only have two - one for boxing and one for cycling.</p> <p>I am sure they do some worthy work but they are not presenting the whole picture and that's a shame. It might be better if they campaigned for safer driving (and for motorists to wear helmets). </p>