http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "UK to allow driverless cars on public roads" en Sun, 31 May 2026 13:26:21 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-298150 Fri, 21 Dec 2018 00:09:38 +0000 Rosie 298150@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A good skit on the ethics of self-driving cars on John Finnemore's Souvenir Programme on Radio 4. About 8 minutes in.</p> <p><a href="https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b086s7dk" rel="nofollow">https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b086s7dk</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-296296 Fri, 23 Nov 2018 13:52:45 +0000 Ed1 296296@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A self driving bus could pass an object by 1mm as the computor could judge exactly. A normal bus would need to leave 2 feet as too hard for a driver to judge exactly. The council could save £s by narrowing all roads. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-296292 Fri, 23 Nov 2018 13:19:48 +0000 crowriver 296292@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@IWRATS, how dare you question the orthodoxy of Value Extraction from the provision of public services? Are you attempting to threaten revenue streams for shareholders and directors? This sounds highly seditious and contrary to the basic tenets of Empire. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-296273 Fri, 23 Nov 2018 10:27:27 +0000 I were right about that saddle 296273@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Improved safety, reduced congestion, increased effic­iency and lower staffing costs have been billed among potential benefits of driverless buses.</em></p> <p>For whom, exactly, are lower staffing costs a 'benefit'? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-296259 Thu, 22 Nov 2018 21:54:20 +0000 acsimpson 296259@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Both this article and the Beeb talk about there being 5 buses in the trial while showing a picture containing 6 (presumably) regular ones.</p> <p>The route is almost entirely on motorways and other restricted roads. I guess this is to minimise contact with tricky obstacles. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-296249 Thu, 22 Nov 2018 18:27:29 +0000 minus six 296249@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>not ok with this </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-296248 Thu, 22 Nov 2018 18:04:05 +0000 chdot 296248@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just looked at the route map in link. </p> <p>Interesting... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-296243 Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:46:32 +0000 Frenchy 296243@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/driverless-buses-to-make-14-mile-journeys-across-forth-road-bridge-1-4833672" rel="nofollow">https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/driverless-buses-to-make-14-mile-journeys-across-forth-road-bridge-1-4833672</a></p> <p>Autonomous buses going between Ferrytoll and Edinburgh Park.</p> <p>Article also has a quote from Greg Clark saying "we’re announcing today is that we’re going to have a pilot in Edinburgh for example, for a bus to drive autonomously into the city centre from outside." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-272761 Wed, 17 Jan 2018 17:32:42 +0000 chdot 272761@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“Good article”</p> <p>Yes.</p> <p>“</p> <p>People live in urban centers not because they want to sit at home in their house and have their toothbrush delivered to their door, but because they have a pharmacy around the corner that they can walk to," says Nicole Ferrara, executive director of pedestrian advocacy group Walk San Francisco.</p> <p>“ </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-272759 Wed, 17 Jan 2018 17:23:07 +0000 neddie 272759@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Good article </p> <p><a href="https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/17/destroying_the_city_to_save_the_robocar/" rel="nofollow">https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/17/destroying_the_city_to_save_the_robocar/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-267390 Wed, 22 Nov 2017 19:16:48 +0000 chdot 267390@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/cars/car-news/budget-2017-400m-boost-for-electric-vehicles-to-pave-way-for-driverless-cars_92ceff82c93ae0a5ad381cda699b8eac" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/cars/car-news/budget-2017-400m-boost-for-electric-vehicles-to-pave-way-for-driverless-cars_92ceff82c93ae0a5ad381cda699b8eac</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-264108 Mon, 23 Oct 2017 10:12:39 +0000 I were right about that saddle 264108@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Socialist John Harris punting the utopia of cities dominated by self-driving cars;</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/23/owning-car-thing-of-the-past-cities-utopian-vision" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/23/owning-car-thing-of-the-past-cities-utopian-vision</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-247904 Tue, 25 Apr 2017 22:05:11 +0000 jdanielp 247904@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Albeit still with drivers by the sounds of it so possibly not much more advanced than what some cars are able to do on motorways already, although car-to-car communication sounds like it may be the main innovation. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-247902 Tue, 25 Apr 2017 21:18:32 +0000 chdot 247902@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Driverless cars trial set for UK motorways in 2019</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39691540" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39691540</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-238017 Fri, 02 Dec 2016 15:33:14 +0000 chdot 238017@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>“We don’t really have any idea where Ms. Chao would be,” says Chan Lieu, an advisor to the Self-Driving Coalition for Safer Streets, whose members include Ford, Google, Lyft, Uber, and Volvo.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="https://www.wired.com/2016/11/elaine-chao-secretary-transportation-self-driving-cars/" rel="nofollow">https://www.wired.com/2016/11/elaine-chao-secretary-transportation-self-driving-cars/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-233358 Fri, 07 Oct 2016 19:56:35 +0000 chdot 233358@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.ice.org.uk/ice-thinks/infrastructure-transformation#autonomous-vehicles" rel="nofollow">https://www.ice.org.uk/ice-thinks/infrastructure-transformation#autonomous-vehicles</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-231864 Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:57:33 +0000 chdot 231864@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/25/uber-self-driving-cars-pittsburgh-how-driverless-cars-could-change-our-future-lyft-john-zimmer" rel="nofollow">http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/25/uber-self-driving-cars-pittsburgh-how-driverless-cars-could-change-our-future-lyft-john-zimmer</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-222746 Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:56:02 +0000 neddie 222746@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The "if a car has to choose between hitting a school bus or a bike..." is a total nonsense argument because:</p> <p>No human would be able to make such a complex decision in the split second required. Most humans are too busy thinking about their dinner / argument with spouse / phone conversation / attractive person on other side of road to evaluate all the factors correctly and even react.</p> <p>When deer or other animals run out, 90% of drivers just plough straight through them.</p> <p>The idea that drivers have a 'choice' in such situations is just another illusion of control. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-222728 Fri, 10 Jun 2016 16:09:55 +0000 stiltskin 222728@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>TBH I don't think the main worry with this sort of AI is the bike or bus choice. After all, that is a difficult call for a human to make and there is no definitive correct answer. It is more that in an extremely complex and unpredictable road environment the algorithms governing it may end up with a completely irrational decision. No matter how sophisticated you make the programming you don't get the same flexibility and understanding a human displays. Don't forget the most common phrase heard on a flight deck is: 'Why is it doing that? ' </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-222721 Fri, 10 Jun 2016 15:36:42 +0000 steveo 222721@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A Serious Lack of Gravitas, it would at least fit in well round here! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-222720 Fri, 10 Jun 2016 15:34:09 +0000 I were right about that saddle 222720@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@steveo</p> <p>Good call. <em>Clear Air Turbulence</em> perhaps? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-222718 Fri, 10 Jun 2016 15:27:44 +0000 steveo 222718@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sounds like it should be a Mind running the roads. Though it might get bored. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-222716 Fri, 10 Jun 2016 15:24:30 +0000 jdanielp 222716@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot @IWRATS true. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-222714 Fri, 10 Jun 2016 15:19:02 +0000 acsimpson 222714@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>IWRATS, Fast forward to 2037 where despite owning more cars than there are people on the planet everyone walks everywhere as the cars decided that the use of energy would necessitate the emissions of toxic substances into earth atmosphere in contravention of rule zero. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-222711 Fri, 10 Jun 2016 15:08:54 +0000 I were right about that saddle 222711@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Azimov way ahead of us?</p> <p>0. A driverless car may not harm humanity, or, by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm.<br /> 1. A driverless car may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.<br /> 2. A driverless car must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.<br /> 3. A driverless car must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the Zeroth, First or Second Laws </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=4#post-222710 Fri, 10 Jun 2016 15:05:07 +0000 chdot 222710@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"as a result of <strike>their inability to react as fast</strike> driving too close" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=3#post-222709 Fri, 10 Jun 2016 14:57:20 +0000 jdanielp 222709@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Klaxon good point... A short-term transitional issue is likely to be lots of human drivers rear-ending autonomous vehicles as a result of their inability to react as fast in the event that sudden braking is necessary, as Google has already found out during their autonomous car testing. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=3#post-222698 Fri, 10 Jun 2016 14:11:08 +0000 Klaxon 222698@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>'Choosing who to hit' is an awful argument to land against driverless vehicles given that their defensive driving logic will ensure they don't get into 99% of the situations that cause common crashes in the first place.</p> <p>Point this out and of course you get quoted back all the outlier 1% situations that typically involve irrational behaviour of other, human controlled vehicles. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=3#post-222697 Fri, 10 Jun 2016 14:03:50 +0000 jdanielp 222697@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It was the comparison between merely "hitting a school bus" but "killing a cyclist" that bothered me about the first quote. Obviously the cyclist is the more vulnerable of those potential targets in a straightforward scenario so I find it hard to compare, but what also worries me is that an autonomous vehicle is likely to value the safety of its occupant highest of all so may therefore choose to collide with the cyclist instead of the school bus on the basis that its occupant is far less likely to be injured. Who knows what he meant with "a thing about cyclists"?! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13208&page=3#post-222691 Fri, 10 Jun 2016 13:50:42 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 222691@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"The "if a car has to choose between hitting a school bus" is a total nonsense argument"</p> <p>Not really.</p> <p>Apples and pears comparing planes autopilots (which hold a set course, which is programmed in, and determined by markers, in a primarily empty sky - and the choice between ditching in the sea or a field means something has gone wrong which essentially means the autopilot no longer has control) and automated cars (which operate in much busier environments, in a more proactive <em>and</em> reactionary manner, that could have a cyclist pull out in front of them from a junction with no space to brake, while directly alongside a bus full of schoolkids into which it would have to swerve to avoid the cyclist, and be in complete control of the 'choice' to make).</p> <p>They are fundamentally different systems in fundamentally different scenarios.</p> <p>"... <em>for example, if you're in London and you have a thing about cyclists, do you load it in your own way?</em>"</p> <p>That, however, worries me immensely! </p>