http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Bus/tram crash (part 2) en Fri, 22 May 2026 09:21:05 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-168428 Fri, 17 Oct 2014 01:12:32 +0000 Tulyar 168428@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Watched a No X38 make exactly same move at same location to pull out past a car turning left. Fortunately no tram present (10.00 4th October) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163927 Mon, 01 Sep 2014 14:16:08 +0000 neddie 163927@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Why add that the alleged cyclist was 'not wearing fluorescent clothing...</em></p> <p>Click bait for a rag in its death throes </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163914 Mon, 01 Sep 2014 13:35:17 +0000 condor2378 163914@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Why add that the alleged cyclist was 'not wearing fluorescent clothing", when it would appear that he could be clearly seen by the witness 100 meters away? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163799 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 22:01:49 +0000 stiltskin 163799@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em><blockquote> To actually ride up on to the footway here (through pedestrians waiting to cross and street furniture at that time of day) would never seriously happen.</blockquote></em></p> <p>That's a shame because I've seen it happen myself. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163796 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 20:29:21 +0000 Tulyar 163796@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'd second <strong>@Bananaman</strong> on this one. the bus is still at a slight angle, and it looks as if the driver's move to the right began after passing through the 'choke' point at the W Maitland Street/Torphichen St guddle (AKA junction). To actually ride up on to the footway here (through pedestrians waiting to cross and street furniture at that time of day) would never seriously happen.</p> <p>What the witness 100 metres away probably saw is the cyclist on the nearside of the bus as they were being overtaken/about to be overtaken, carrying on riding and perhaps unaware of the mayhem alongside, or thinking thank goodness the bus driver hit the tram and not me.</p> <p>Overtaking a cyclist is the most likely scenario here, and perhaps there should be a clear indication "No Overtaking - all vehicles" for this section, and "No Left turn" (except cycles) for Manor Place, to avoid a repeat of the first coach-tram crash, caused I suspect because no one considered the 1.2m outswing which C&amp;U sets as the maximum for large vehicles (ie HGV/PCV) - not a massive problem in a standard 3.5m vehicle lane but when you shoe-horn a lane in alongside the tram tracks and reduce the width to barely fit a 2.55m wide bus or truck....</p> <p>Now if this, and the first crash had happened in England or Wales, the RAIB would have announced that an investigation had been commissioned, and an independent report was being prepared. However because this is now Scotland and NOT a heavy rail line, RAIB do not carry out crash investigations, and ORR does not regulate the tram operator - the matters are dealt with by Transport Scotland. </p> <p>This could be very interesting as a pre-testing for independence, as clearly when (if) an independent state, then Scotland will need the equivalents of CAA, MCA, and ORR to regulate air sea and rail operations, and I would suggest an independent crash/incident investigation team/unit to objectively investigate all significant road, rail, air, and maritime incidents, and produce recommendations to prevent the same things happening a second time. </p> <p>Just one of the things we'll need to sort out when/if we get a Yes result on 18th...... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163795 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 20:19:38 +0000 neddie 163795@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Also likely the bus pulled out to pass an illegaly parked vehicle. There was one in the EEN pic, although may have arrived to help after? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163791 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 19:06:28 +0000 Bananaman 163791@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Having cycled this stretch most days since the trams started I'd add this is an atrocious bit of transport infrastructure both ways<br /> . Going east you dont cross any tracks, but hazards are junction, taxi rank, other junction, bus stops, other junction, all in the space of a couple of hundred metres. Id advise playing it very safe and patient. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163787 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 18:45:12 +0000 chdot 163787@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"The CTV on the bus should show for sure"</p> <p>Not sure that all FB's have cameras.</p> <p>Tram should have and ought to have captured 'cyclist getting away'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163784 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 18:39:44 +0000 Cyclingmollie 163784@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Cyclists in flouro clothing are also invisible of course. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163783 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 18:31:48 +0000 Bananaman 163783@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I witnessed the aftermass of this, passing by a few minutes later. The position of the bus was about where the earliest safe point for him to overtake a bike which had been in front of him at the junction (possibly sitting in the ASL). Its also possible somebody moved out in front unexpectedly. The CTV on the bus should show for sure. We are speculating about someones job, and someones cycling standards, so I'd put the chip wrapper aside and check the video. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163780 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:32:05 +0000 wingpig 163780@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The added benefit of the 'not wearing fluorescent clothing' bit is that no-one else but the hawk-eyed FirstBus driver and the magic witness will have seen them, cyclists in non-fluorescent clothing obviously being effectively invisible. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163779 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:27:23 +0000 Charlethepar 163779@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I can't get past the redundancy of the 'not wearing fluorescent clothing' part. Surely the reaction of the driver would have been greater if the cyclist were more visible. I have to assume it's there merely as evidence of the cyclist's general wrongness, or just to wind up the easily wound up, as it's otherwise irrelevant. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163778 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:21:01 +0000 Cyclingmollie 163778@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I don't know but it's possible that the cyclist had just seen a guide dog to run over and had a bit of a "red mist" moment. To find the culprit the police just have to follow the nearest one-way system in reverse. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163777 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:15:19 +0000 Morningsider 163777@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>stiltskin - its a tricky one. The EEN testimony of a nameless witness who was 100 metres from the accident, against the possibility that a First Bus driver pulled out without looking.</p> <p>Is it likely that a cyclist filtered through the traffic, jumped on the pavement and then off in front of a moving bus? I suppose its possible, but I can't think why you would do that here. Add in the fact that tram and bus passengers, the police, Edinburgh Trams or First Bus have never mentioned the involvement of a cyclist and I do think it legitimate to question whether this is just trolling by the EEN.</p> <p>Given the area is saturated with CCTV (also fitted to the trams) it should be relatively easy to prove. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163776 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:14:55 +0000 gembo 163776@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sorry I did not give the story enough attention. The witness in the second story does say there was a cyclist. This is reported as witnesses but only one witness. He/she is also reported as mentioning that the cyclist wasn't wearing any fluorescent vest. The bus company is investigating and the tram company CCTV is they feel evidence that their driver was not to blame. </p> <p>So I retract my earlier remark and await further evidence before making a conclusion. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163775 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 17:13:43 +0000 Charlethepar 163775@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If a cyclist did indeed bounce out from the pavement, the only reason to swerve would be if the bus driver was trying to pass the cycle. Otherwise, breaking would be the obvious reaction. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163773 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 16:25:50 +0000 stiltskin 163773@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Do you not think it might be more fair-minded to accept that this might well have happened unless you have evidence to the contrary. This is eye-witness evidence against what? Much as it may be unpalatable, cyclists aren't always in the right. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163772 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 16:24:02 +0000 remberbuck 163772@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I am puzzled. </p> <p>I have no reason to doubt the cyclist story, and it would be very odd for a bus to swerve there.</p> <p>But no praise for the bus driver in avoiding an accident?</p> <p>Odd. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163767 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 14:20:38 +0000 gembo 163767@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Deeply suspicious of this as story initially reported makes no mention of cyclist. The first evening news citing a witness who said it was obvious what happened but then that could just have been the journalist standing looking at it. The driver of the first bus has in my mind unless there is CCTV evidence, made that up </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163763 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 13:31:35 +0000 LaidBack 163763@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Wearing fluorescent clothing? <em>Might have made it worse as he would have swerved too much.</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163762 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 13:17:01 +0000 Snowy 163762@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well, that would be the first and only time I've seen a FirstBus take avoiding action or consciously give a cyclist any space on the road.</p> <p>Supplemental bit. Yesterday evening I was on a tram eastbound on Princes St, which got stuck behind, you guessed it, a FirstBus which was trying to jump the queue of Lothian buses and was sitting right on the tramlines. This properly b*ggered up the traffic light sequences and so it took about 15 minutes to get from Hanover St to St Andrew Square. Ticket collector was just sighing and saying it happened all the time. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163760 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 12:48:49 +0000 algo 163760@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I note that neither the bus nor the tram were wearing fluorescent clothing either... I'd be interested to see the cctv of this reckless cycling and why the most appropriate behaviour by the bus driver in any situation I could envisage would not be to brake (or break as the EEN puts it) rather than swerve... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163758 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 12:21:04 +0000 chdot 163758@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Enquiries are underway after a 20-year-old man was struck by a silver car while crossing the road at South Bridge, near to the junction with High Street. </p> <p>The car, which is believed to have been a Peugeot and will now be missing a wing mirror, failed to stop and instead drove off towards North Bridge.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/police-appeal-after-hit-and-run-at-south-bridge-1-3525797" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/police-appeal-after-hit-and-run-at-south-bridge-1-3525797</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163756 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 11:13:18 +0000 LivM 163756@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There's always one eejit who spoils it for everyone... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13370#post-163751 Sat, 30 Aug 2014 10:15:38 +0000 chdot 163751@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yesterday's crash was only mentioned here in the 'bad driving' thread -</p> <p><a href="http://www.citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3748&amp;page=93#post-163605" rel="nofollow">http://www.citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3748&amp;page=93#post-163605</a></p> <p>Today there is a different story -</p> <p>"</p> <p>Witnesses told how the cyclist – who was not wearing fluorescent clothing – weaved in and out of traffic before springing from the pavement into the roadway.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/cyclist-blamed-for-crash-between-tram-and-bus-1-3525763" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/cyclist-blamed-for-crash-between-tram-and-bus-1-3525763</a> </p>