CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: The Shoes Ruse

CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: The Shoes Ruse http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: The Shoes Ruse en Mon, 01 Jun 2026 03:44:46 +0000 Instography on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574&page=2#post-168624 Sun, 19 Oct 2014 21:51:06 +0000 Instography 168624@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ What you need is a variety of bikes - one for each pair of shoes. Simple. That's my philosophy. crowriver on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574&page=2#post-168613 Sun, 19 Oct 2014 19:00:58 +0000 crowriver 168613@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Just taken delivery of Grant Petersen's book 'Just Ride' (2012) which includes the above polemic as one section. Must say I'm enjoying it, but he definitely seems to see racing cycling as "the enemy" a bit - despite having raced himself when younger (including across the US in 1976 "when everyone else was doing it"). Nifty format too: a lovely print object. Which is nice. <img src="http://blog.harriscyclery.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Just-Ride-2.jpg"> LaidBack on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574&page=2#post-168243 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 22:20:42 +0000 LaidBack 168243@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Uberuce - three types surely. Unless Scum is subset of Traitor ;-) I got a pair of 5Ten shoes from EBC before summer and have found them to be pretty good. They are pricey but worth it in my view. Sole is stiff and amazingly grippy with special sticky rubber. Also more breathable than some. Combine with BMX pedals and you have a good urban multi-purpose solution. On longer rides I still use SPDs - easier on recliners as you can see your feet in front of you. The 5Tens though are preference on the reclined tandem as you need good grip pedalling and also starting and stopping in traffic. Fact that Danny MacAskill uses them is pure coincidence! Uberuce on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574&page=2#post-168233 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 18:06:28 +0000 Uberuce 168233@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ The real issue is that if you're riding a bike where flat pedals are a viable option then you're not riding fixed, and as any sane and moderate person knows, there are two types of cyclist: 1) Those riding fixed gear. 2) Traitors. 3) Scum. ARobComp on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574&page=2#post-168214 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 15:14:26 +0000 ARobComp 168214@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I need stiff shoes or my knees get sore due to the downforce I create. Yet to find strong commutin' shoes that are not more CX/MTB/Road style that are stiff enough and that have enough grip that I'd be comfortable wearing them with flats. So there is always another reason :) I also have the scars on my shins from slipping off the pedals... gembo on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574&page=2#post-168211 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:50:11 +0000 gembo 168211@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ This pedal thing is not a deal breaker, not like the helmet thing. No wait we survived that. Ok this Indy ref thing (heck we might even have survived that) sallyhinch on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574&page=2#post-168209 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:41:17 +0000 sallyhinch 168209@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <a href="http://kentsbike.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/clipsplaining-explained.html">Clipsplaining</a> (Edited to add: that wasn't in reference to anyone on here, I just remembered that post and wanted to share it) PS on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574&page=2#post-168190 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 12:25:56 +0000 PS 168190@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ [I'm not doctor, but...] If you want to engage different muscles (within reason, obvs) while clipped in, you can do this by shifting your position in the saddle. I'd have thought this is a far preferable thing to do, mechanically, than changing the position of your foot on the pedal (assuming your saddle is at the right height). Insole pedallers look all wrong on a bike - even just the way they move about in the saddle suggests they're not being efficient and may indeed be causing themselves problems.[/I'm not doctor, but...] le_soigneur on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574&page=2#post-168186 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 11:35:44 +0000 le_soigneur 168186@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ My Wellgo pedal spindle fractured in Kirkcaldy, I made it to Inverkeithing/S.WallaceCycles on one leg. Yoof that I was! ON the RSI thing, that is the reason LOOK/Shimano/Speedplays/Timee/etc now have versions that allow "float" - the generation that adopted clipless are now middle-aged and with decreasing suppleness, some are prone to knee problems in the clipless versions that a few mm of prevent foot rotation. There is a significant market for float - MAMILs like me :) fimm on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574&page=2#post-168181 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 11:19:28 +0000 fimm 168181@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ There was a chap with one leg who did Ironman France when boyfriend did it. This man had had his leg taken off at the hip. IM France is held in Nice and the bike leg is a single loop up into the foothills of the Alps. It is seriously hilly. We were well impressed. Chap did the marathon in a wheelchair. steveo on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574&page=2#post-168174 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:47:24 +0000 steveo 168174@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ led to an oppositional, factionalising stance. What about those of us on "Racing" bikes with carbon and drops, rocking carradice and leather saddles? Oh and clippy pedals. I'm having a very similar conversation on a camera forum about why "we" use old mechanical film cameras in a digital era. It was triggered by a very similarly written article, retrogrouch or what ever, but its the partisan dogma on either side which turns off the majority in the middle. I were right about that saddle on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574&page=2#post-168173 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:46:50 +0000 I were right about that saddle 168173@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I can't be alone in occasionally cycling one-legged when I'm clipped in just to see how far I can get? Dave on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574#post-168172 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:44:27 +0000 Dave 168172@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I hope as someone who rides around with a drum brake and dynamo and is into recumbents, I don't really need to worry about being blinkered into "roadie ism".. If the article merely said "hey, you don't *need* to have bike-specific shoes, any more than you need running shoes to run or special boots to climb a mountain" then that would be fair enough, and who could disagree? Sadly it goes much further than that... Q. who is most likely to get repetitive strain? A. people who do a very large amount of cycling Q. what type of shoe are people who do a very large amount of cycling most likely to wear? A. specific bike shoes Conclusion: OMG, bike shoes cause injuries! Wear crocs! Where's my tinfoil helmet? gembo on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574#post-168170 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:35:17 +0000 gembo 168170@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @ CHdot, you missed an opportunity there? What was the name of the teacher? Imagine it was Smith. I once had a teacher with a wooden leg called Smith. what was the name of his other leg? See fear of wood legs in literature - treasure island, sign of four (Sherlock holmes) Alas my reference is to the film Mary Poppins crowriver on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574#post-168169 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:34:31 +0000 crowriver 168169@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "In a way it is typical of low-grade journalism" Except the author makes and sells custom bike frames: steel, lugged construction. Apparently used to work for Bridgestone USA back in the day. I suppose some might refer to his "velosophy" as "retrogrouch". Perhaps evangelising this position (with its brazed steel, moustache bars, twine or cork grips, wool jerseys, bar-end/downtube shifters, leather saddles, racks and canvas saddlebags ethos) at a time (the nineties/early zeroes) when most of the industry was pushing racxing tech (carbon fibre, drop bars, clipless pedals, lycra, brifters, "cut-out" saddles, no luggage), led to an oppositional, factionalising stance. Arguably, now that the ethos he is (stll) pushing has become more popular, there's no need to be partisan about it. Then again, given that the "racing" fraternity are as partisan as ever, maybe there is still a need for an "opposition"? I were right about that saddle on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574#post-168164 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:16:55 +0000 I were right about that saddle 168164@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I don't need my SPDs but I do like them. The sensation of unity with the machine is pleasant. When the inevitable happens and I go beyond my Ein Mensch, Ein Fahrrad philosophy I will have a town bike with flats and a chainguard. amir on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574#post-168161 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:10:06 +0000 amir 168161@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "it comes down to a dichotomy between "racing" and what he calls "unracing", ie. cycling that's not competitive sport." @crowriver I think that you've put your finger on it. However that doesn't really bear resemblance to reality. There are many uses of cycles, a lot of crossover and folk have their preferences. In a way it is typical of low-grade journalism, wanting to create divisions where none exists, black/white where the reality is grey. crowriver on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574#post-168157 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:03:47 +0000 crowriver 168157@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "Umm... the main advantage of special shoes is that you can't slip off the bike! " Yeah, the article does mention this. Also mentions sprinting and short, steep climbs. I get the impression this chap Grant Petersen is trying to counter the increasing domination of proprietary racing technologies in areas of cycling that, frankly, don't really need to use them. So it's a different "velosophy" as he would put it. "*not* using special shoes is more efficient and less likely to lead to repetitive strain." Well even on this forum we've had tales of "hot spots", sore knees caused by poorly adjusted cleats, etc. So I reckon there must be something in it: locking your feet into one parallel position for long periods of time could cause repetitive strain injury. I'm less taken by the "efficiency" argument, but I'm also sceptical about the largely engineering based approach that sees the human body as simply a mechanical piston. Again if we look at Petersen's world view, it comes down to a dichotomy between "racing" and what he calls "unracing", ie. cycling that's not competitive sport. He's making the point that, unless engaged in the former (eg. as you said your livelihood depends on it), you really don't need clipless pedals, which I think is fair enough. chdot on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574#post-168156 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 10:01:30 +0000 chdot 168156@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "Cycling one legged is definitely a big plus for being clipped in." I once had a teacher with a wooden leg. He had a bike with one pedal - with toeclip/strap. Don't think he went far (don't know where he actually stayed). The area was fairly flat. Most odd to see one leg just hanging, but a highly effective means of transport/mobility. amir on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574#post-168150 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 09:43:53 +0000 amir 168150@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "I feel I should clip in and test this out on the Lang Whang this morning to see if one leg is working against the other etc." Cycling one legged is definitely a big plus for being clipped in. It can be used to confuse motorists and of course to give one leg a rest. gembo on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574#post-168146 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 09:32:45 +0000 gembo 168146@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @dave good analysis of his piece. He does say at the beginning that if you ride for a living or are roadie fanatic (ie those who will definitely disagree then they should stop reading which is a good device of rhetoric). He also makes same point as you about short burst of power - he says short steep climb, you mention traffic lights. In total though the article is considerably less groundbreaking than the author would have us imagine. However, the point I liked was the one I mentioned above that despite it being propounded on here and elsewhere - he claims there is no pull on the upstroke in the pro peloton just no pushing down on the upstroke. I feel I should clip in and test this out on the Lang Whang this morning to see if one leg is working against the other etc. Pull on the upstroke is often cited as big reason for clipping in i.e. Using all muscles evenly distributed. The other is as you say - no slippage. Dave on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574#post-168144 Wed, 15 Oct 2014 09:21:15 +0000 Dave 168144@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Rivendell article seems like bunk to me. I did laugh out loud when I read "at some point the madness has to stop"!!!!!! It starts off by building a straw man: "The argument in favor of Special Shoes is ... power for the full 360-degrees". Umm... the main advantage of special shoes is that you can't slip off the bike! Nobody thinks that you can put power in for the full rotation (although you can briefly, i.e. to pull away from lights). It goes on to claim that *not* using special shoes is more efficient and less likely to lead to repetitive strain. How strange that without exception, everyone in the world whose livelihood depends on efficient pedalling and staying injury free wears special shoes! Someone should tell them about this article! There's a bit of junk pseudo science in there too. Apparently adjusting your foot on the pedal changes the muscles in your legs which are being used, giving them a rest. Armed with this tip, next time I get tired on my commute I will simply rest my calves and quads with a different foot position, and use my spares instead! Genius! amir on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574#post-168117 Tue, 14 Oct 2014 17:50:32 +0000 amir 168117@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "Not that Moultons fold of course" The trick is in unfolding them and being able to ride afterwards gembo on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574#post-168115 Tue, 14 Oct 2014 17:40:26 +0000 gembo 168115@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I use toe clips on my commute. Can't be fagged un clipping at every traffic light. I have mountain bike style clip in on my winter road bike and proper road bike clip in on my summer road bike. What about what the dude says about road racers not pulling on the upstroke, just not pushing down on it.?? kaputnik on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574#post-168105 Tue, 14 Oct 2014 14:23:14 +0000 kaputnik 168105@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Not that Moultons fold of course <a href="http://www.evanscycles.com/products/moulton/tsr-8-folding-bike-ec045425" rel="nofollow">http://www.evanscycles.com/products/moulton/tsr-8-folding-bike-ec045425</a> Evans begs to differ. Even if they are wrong. I were right about that saddle on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574#post-168100 Tue, 14 Oct 2014 14:09:47 +0000 I were right about that saddle 168100@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @chdot "Not that Moultons fold of course..." Not in your hands maybe. crowriver on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574#post-168099 Tue, 14 Oct 2014 14:06:47 +0000 crowriver 168099@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @algo, aye I'm a toeclips fan. Tend to only use them where I'll be riding some distance, or at some speed (all relative, I'm not talking race speeds). Even then I don't tighten them, but keep them a bit loose so I can change foot position (and get a foot down if need be). Otherwise for general purpose utility cycling it's flats or 'cage' pedals (MTB/touring style). chdot on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574#post-168094 Tue, 14 Oct 2014 13:49:31 +0000 chdot 168094@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @ IWRATS "Moulton folding shopper" Not that Moultons fold of course... algo on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574#post-168090 Tue, 14 Oct 2014 13:36:50 +0000 algo 168090@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I used to use SPD for commuting, but reverted to old-fashioned toe-clips after several knee operations - I prefer being able to move the position of my foot on the pedals slightly while still having something to keep my foot there and give me some ability to push and pull up (albeit very slightly). I know I am now in a massive minority using toe-clips still but I like them. Worst thing for toe-clips is shoes with thick treads which catch the edge of the pedal and prevent you from getting your foot in or out easily…. for that reason and stiffness of sole I tend to walk around in cycling shoes with no clips in... PS on "The Shoes Ruse" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13574#post-168089 Tue, 14 Oct 2014 13:36:42 +0000 PS 168089@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I use flats, SPDs and SPD-SLs, just not at the same time. There have been times when I've been clipped in when I wish I wasn't (a couple of sideways topples), and times when I haven't been clipped in when I wished I was (a couple of foot slipping off the pedal incidents). Strange article on the link, though.