http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "Innovation in, lycra out: what Copenhagen can teach us about cycling" en Mon, 01 Jun 2026 03:43:59 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168729 Mon, 20 Oct 2014 23:15:42 +0000 chdot 168729@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Sally Hinchcliffe (@sallyhinch)<br /> 20/10/2014 20:51<br /> @MarcoBiagiMSP @CyclingEdin Worth looking at what the Directors of Public Health report says <a href="http://www.adph.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Take_action_on_active_travel_20104.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.adph.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Take_action_on_active_travel_20104.pdf</a> </p> <p>@kdugdalemsp</p> <p>"</p> <p>"</p> <p>Sally Hinchcliffe (@sallyhinch)<br /> 20/10/2014 20:51<br /> @MarcoBiagiMSP That's the report we based the @POPScotland figures on <a href="http://pedalonparliament.org/why-10-per-head-is-not-enough/" rel="nofollow">http://pedalonparliament.org/why-10-per-head-is-not-enough/</a></p> <p>@kdugdalemsp</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168728 Mon, 20 Oct 2014 23:12:17 +0000 chdot 168728@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Marco Biagi (@MarcoBiagiMSP)<br /> 20/10/2014 20:15<br /> @CyclingEdin I'd love to see source of that, beyond Guardian journalist citing it. Underpinning research would make interesting reading.</p> <p>"</p> <p>"</p> <p> Mikael (@copenhagenize)<br /> 20/10/2014 21:20<br /> @CyclingEdin Standard number used by City of Copenhagen based on Cost-Benefit analysis from 2008 @MarcoBiagiMSP @kdugdalemsp</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168541 Sat, 18 Oct 2014 08:58:30 +0000 sallyhinch 168541@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My husband grew up in Minnesota and when the snow really fell in the winter used to cross-country ski through the streets until they were cleared - I imagine you could use the bike paths the same way. My sister in law has snow shoes for when she can't run in the winter. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168535 Fri, 17 Oct 2014 21:49:03 +0000 chdot 168535@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>A fair amount of that pork went to bicycling because Oberstar was that great rarity — a politician who was a regular cyclist. </p> <p>"</p> <p>Doesn't seem to work here... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168534 Fri, 17 Oct 2014 21:45:22 +0000 chdot 168534@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>How did this come to pass? How has tiny Minneapolis, where the weather is brutal</p> <p>"</p> <p>Bike shops used to sell skis in winter to survive. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168533 Fri, 17 Oct 2014 21:43:21 +0000 chdot 168533@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>According to Jeanette Sadik-Khan, who presided over the city’s expansion of bike services</p> <p>"</p> <p>Oh her!</p> <p>Maybe she could get a job in Edinbvrgh. </p> <p><a href="http://www.businessinsider.com/how-janette-sadik-khan-improved-nyc-2013-12" rel="nofollow">http://www.businessinsider.com/how-janette-sadik-khan-improved-nyc-2013-12</a></p> <p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LujWrkYsl64" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LujWrkYsl64</a></p> <p>.</p> <p>"</p> <p>New York managed to build out its network for about $8.8 million spread out over several years — but 80 percent of that was matching funds that they managed to get from the feds. According to Jeanette Sadik-Khan, who presided over the city’s expansion of bike services, the city has spent less than $2 million from its own coffers.</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168532 Fri, 17 Oct 2014 21:11:15 +0000 sallyhinch 168532@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Talking about following the money this is interesting <a href="http://grist.org/cities/why-minneapolis-beautiful-bike-freeways-are-totally-the-best/" rel="nofollow">http://grist.org/cities/why-minneapolis-beautiful-bike-freeways-are-totally-the-best/</a> - pork barrel politics in service of cycling! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168530 Fri, 17 Oct 2014 20:27:11 +0000 chdot 168530@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/overwhelming-support-for-giving-up-more-road-space-to-cyclists-poll-reveals-as-londoners-back-cycle-superhighway-scheme-9800458.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/overwhelming-support-for-giving-up-more-road-space-to-cyclists-poll-reveals-as-londoners-back-cycle-superhighway-scheme-9800458.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168520 Fri, 17 Oct 2014 18:21:04 +0000 chdot 168520@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<a href="http://cyclingedinburgh.info/2006/11/16/minister-says-things-must-change">Minister Says ‘Things Must Change’</a> " </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168517 Fri, 17 Oct 2014 18:11:11 +0000 chdot 168517@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Follow the money chdot"</p> <p>Indeed, like I said -</p> <p>"those with a vested interest - of one sort or another ... ones with money to pay for Lobbyists"</p> <p>"they showed the Council the number of jobs and the rates income"</p> <p>Of, course - and planning staff/'experts' didn't work out the cost of job losses, empty shops and 'death' of the High Street. </p> <p>No doubt the councillors' electorate liked the idea of having a Tesco to drive to. </p> <p>The vested interests know which buttons to push in the short-termist political world. </p> <p>However if LAs do stand out against such developments, the proposers know they'll get a sympathetic hearing when they appeal to ScotGov (at a cost to local taxpayers). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168506 Fri, 17 Oct 2014 16:18:49 +0000 Cyclingmollie 168506@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Follow the money chdot. Here in Musselburgh the Council is digging up the east end of the High Street to provide more parking and improve the area as a shopping destination in a bid to ameliorate the effect of allowing a massive Tesco to be built at the other end of the street. We might even get the first ever bike rack, who knows. But Tesco is most certainly there because they showed the Council the number of jobs and the rates income. Tesco needs people in cars and he who pays the piper calls the tune. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168496 Fri, 17 Oct 2014 15:01:00 +0000 chdot 168496@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"it may be because leadership and proper evaluation of the evidence are a bit thin on the ground in the world of politics..."</p> <p>Yep. </p> <p>"join parties and get elected as councillors, MSPs and MPs. Or go back to shouting into our broom cupboards."</p> <p>Well yes, but -</p> <p>Apart from the tedium of that, even if everyone on here joined parties (perhaps easier if it was the same party?) <em>and</em> got elected it would still be next to impossible to do just/mostly cycling because of all the other things. </p> <p>It would be nice to stand on a manifesto saying 'we are going to sort out cycling first because we believe that everyone will benefit and it will save the NHS money'. </p> <p>But - it seems - there aren't many votes in that. </p> <p>I remember many years ago when I was involved in (campaigning for) improving housing, I met a new civil servant who was determined to rise to the top and 'sort things out'. No idea what happened to her, maybe she achieved her goals, or was dashed aside by the policy changes which resulted in housing being more about commodities than places to live. </p> <p>Of course if you/we can guarantee to get into the policy making positions (preferable very soon) it could be different. </p> <p>So much 'policy' is made by those with a vested interest - of one sort or another. Lobby groups, 'think tanks', 'institutes' etc. </p> <p>Spokes and PoP are 'lobby groups' - but I meant ones with money to pay for Lobbyists, provide 'researchers' etc. </p> <p>It's hard to know/define how much has been achieved by Spokes, Sustrans, CTC etc. over many years. Now British Cycling/Chris Boardman have joined in. </p> <p>All good - but not good <em>enough</em> (that is not a criticism of any of those). </p> <p>Keep going? Hope for the unexpected (Boris has made a difference - helped by LCC and individual campaigners)? Give up?</p> <p>Personally I favour the latter. Been doing it too long, need some new people/ideas/expertise/commitment. </p> <p>If you're up for it, maybe help PoP - it's made a <em>bit</em> of a difference. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168462 Fri, 17 Oct 2014 12:21:00 +0000 I were right about that saddle 168462@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@sallyhinch</p> <p>It happens because we've all too often left public office to careerist goblins. 'We' need to bite whole bandoliers of bullets, join parties and get elected as councillors, MSPs and MPs. Or go back to shouting into our broom cupboards.</p> <p>That way, 'we' are the bosses in @Morningsider's all too probable vision of the genesis of cycle projects. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168461 Fri, 17 Oct 2014 11:47:37 +0000 sallyhinch 168461@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>All the evidence in <a href="http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/zuvvi/media/bc_files/campaigning/BENEFITS_OF_INVESTING_IN_CYCLING_DIGI_FINAL.pdf">one handy report</a>.</p> <p>As to why government's don't invest - I simply don't know. Perhaps because the evidence has only recently begun to mount up that it's infrastructure rather than the much cheaper exhortation and training that will bring it about? Charitably, it may be because the ship of state takes a wee while to turn around, especially as many cycling campaigns only started asking for real investment only recently. Less charitably, it may be because leadership and proper evaluation of the evidence are a bit thin on the ground in the world of politics... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168451 Fri, 17 Oct 2014 10:42:07 +0000 LaidBack 168451@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Dutch and Danish urban cycling is about conforming to an average speed - although earlier in article he said:<br /> <em>"there are simple speed radar signs reminding cyclists to maintain 20km/h in order to surf the wave."</em></p> <p>If you cycle too quickly you will be collectively disapproved off. It's like pointlessly overtaking in a car. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168448 Fri, 17 Oct 2014 10:33:33 +0000 chdot 168448@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"putting fast-moving scooters into the traffic equation along busy cycle tracks where the average speed is 16 km/h." </p> <p>Is that good or bad!? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168447 Fri, 17 Oct 2014 10:28:07 +0000 LaidBack 168447@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"Copenhagen has the world’s best-behaved cyclists: only 7% bend or break a traffic law and only 1% do something like run a red light or ride on the pavement. Good design improves behaviour."</em></p> <p>In Edinburgh cyclists are instructed to ride on pavements to use many Toucan crossings - see George St exit, Crosscauseway and Pleasance Toucans, Fountainpark ... list is long.</p> <p>Interesting comment at end about the new hire bikes in Copenhagen. Electric assist is especially popular in Denmark and Netherlands of course.</p> <p><em>"While the average share bike in other cities costs $600-$800, Copenhagen’s new geek-bikes cost $10,000 a piece, including installation and maintenance. They feature a tablet screen to stare at instead of watching the traffic, and they’re not even free, costing $4 for an hour and $5 if you turn on the electric motor – putting fast-moving scooters into the traffic equation along busy cycle tracks where the average speed is 16 km/h."</em> Mikael Colville-Andersen </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168438 Fri, 17 Oct 2014 09:26:32 +0000 chdot 168438@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Photo caption -</p> <p>"</p> <p>Cyclists in Copenhagen queue patiently for traffic lights – better design leads to better behaviour. </p> <p>"</p> <p>Which is basically the same line as -</p> <p>"How protected bike lanes helped Denmark win its war on inequality" <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13526">thread</a>. </p> <p>And so the old questions about cause and effect, 'what kind of society we want', 'how to get from here to there', etc., etc. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13593#post-168436 Fri, 17 Oct 2014 09:20:45 +0000 chdot 168436@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/oct/16/copenhagen-cycling-innovation-lycra-louts-green-wave-bike-bridges" rel="nofollow">http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/oct/16/copenhagen-cycling-innovation-lycra-louts-green-wave-bike-bridges</a></p> <p>"<br /> The cost of 1km of cycle track is paid off in five years by the health benefits of users getting more exercise. </p> <p>"</p> <p>It's easy for 'us' to believe that. </p> <p>But if it is easily proven/evidenced why doesn't every politician, planner, health professional act?? </p>