http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "That" tram path en Mon, 18 May 2026 19:29:19 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921&page=2#post-172172 Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:20:37 +0000 LaidBack 172172@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I am just getting from A-B, not bothering people, certainly not knocking them down or endangering lives.</em></p> <p>And if we follow the Copenhagen model then the 'desire lines' will show the council where more capacity should be put in. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921&page=2#post-172161 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 22:15:35 +0000 Nelly 172161@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On the odd occasion I use the canal to go home, I "do a Gembo" and ride up the 50 yard stretch as if it were a proper road.</p> <p>IIRC to stay on the correct side of the law, one is required to cross to the 'shared use' west side pavement, proceed up for an indeterminate distance, pop off the kerb (watching for cars - speeding, natch) cross to the correct side of the road, proceed up, up, up until you get past Bankhead Terrace then cross the traffic again to the other side to the canal path entrance.</p> <p>Now, I may be wrong, but there are at least two potentially dangerous moves there and - without getting all Citizen Smith - frankly I am doing no harm and the law can sod off on this occasion.</p> <p>If they want to hoik me in ala Gembo then so be it - I think I said at the time, I would be hard pushed not to laugh at them.</p> <p>For the record, I cycle on 10 feet of pavement at Eltringham Terrace twice a day because - again - the infra is stupid and I wont endanger myself with the detour.</p> <p>I am just getting from A-B, not bothering people, certainly not knocking them down or endangering lives. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921&page=2#post-172158 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 22:08:51 +0000 Kenny 172158@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Seems like Google Streetview is well out of date then. I shall have to pay a visit in daylight to see what it looks like these days. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921&page=2#post-172156 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:59:27 +0000 chdot 172156@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ah yes, I 'misremembered'. </p> <p>(Partly confused by not realising that Wingpig's photo was other side of road from mine.)</p> <p>Worse then stupid! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921&page=2#post-172155 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:56:58 +0000 steveo 172155@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>In both cases, vehicles stopping at a give way sign, checking me out and then pulling out right as I get up to them, forcing anchor slamming and angry shouts.</em></p> <p>Yeah thats why I don't use that bit of road, most drivers at that time are heading for the motorway and are not expecting to find a bike there and when they see one they're in too much of a hurry to wait for a moment. Not worth the aggro tbh. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921&page=2#post-172154 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:42:55 +0000 gembo 172154@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Polis lifted me and told me it was one way with both lanes heading north. After bit on pavement of maybe fifty yards it is two way. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921&page=2#post-172153 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:40:04 +0000 Ed1 172153@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The end junction coming down hill to ocean park is one way. I noticed that when coming in to edinburgh 2 hours ago after reading this earlier on I had never noticed before. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921&page=2#post-172150 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:14:32 +0000 chdot 172150@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Pretty sure Cultins Road is all two-way - you just can't drive in the bottom unless you're a bus, bike or taxi.</p> <p>Though I think the taxi and bike bit is 'recent'.</p> <p>ADMIN EDIT</p> <p>This is of course wrong!!</p> <p>See later posts. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921&page=2#post-172148 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:08:36 +0000 Dave 172148@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I have had a couple of close calls in two weeks on this route, compared to none on the Canal / Ardmillan route in as many months unfortunately. In both cases, vehicles stopping at a give way sign, checking me out and then pulling out right as I get up to them, forcing anchor slamming and angry shouts.</p> <p>I should pass this on to the "your light's too bright" guy perhaps! </p> <p>Might need to start using the headcam again. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921&page=2#post-172147 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:06:40 +0000 Dave 172147@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yeah, that's the deal. At the moment I've refined it down to riding up the pavement the photographer is standing on in the first photo until the point the photographer is standing at, at which point I jump onto the road and start riding up it. Since there's masses of pavements cycle paths about this area and none are correctly signed, I can't be sure this isn't legal, I just don't think it will be in a "this is Edinburgh" kind of way. </p> <p>A lot of traffic leaves Tesco / Decathlon / Royal Mail / the yards on the east side and drives up Cutlins Rd with me, so I surmise it's not one way all the way (by habit if not by virtue of any signage). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172141 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:07:31 +0000 chdot 172141@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Haven't been for a while, but used to be whole mixture of issues in the area about whether cyclists where exempt/included - eg in 'bus only' sections. </p> <p>Also for Cultins Road, marked cycle path turning into pavement. </p> <p>18 months ago -</p> <p><img src="http://images.everytrail.com/pics/fullsize/5852420-photo73.jpg"></p> <p>More at -</p> <p><a href="http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=2083833" rel="nofollow">http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=2083833</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172140 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:03:50 +0000 wingpig 172140@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>At the time of gembo's apprehension it was like this:<br /> <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/wingpig/7070677441/"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7250/7070677441_82aa77cfe3.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/wingpig/7070677441/">IMAG0197</a> by <a href="https://www.flickr.com/people/wingpig/">wingpig</a>, on Flickr </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172137 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:50:15 +0000 Kenny 172137@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I am confused.</p> <p>I cannot see any one way section on Cultins Road which prevents legal progress to the canal path. And I've "walked" up the road on Google Streetview to try to spot it. What am I missing? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172076 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:32:37 +0000 steveo 172076@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>If I was cycling a 1.5 ton bike at 40mph</em></p> <p>Oi, I am not that heavy!!</p> <p>or that fast... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172075 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:32:33 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 172075@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Is that like with like? What if adriver was to break the law 'carefully' (because they weren't sure of the legality our otherwise)?</p> <p>Dave, Your post on legitimising was kind of what i was getting at. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172074 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:28:59 +0000 kaputnik 172074@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If I was cycling a 1.5 ton bike at 40mph on the pavement then I might be more of the opinion that we need to apply the exact same standards required to provide and enforce infrastructure for cycling as we do for motor vehicles.</p> <p>The bicycle is infinitely more benign than the motor vehicle and the cyclist is far, far closer to being a wheeled pedestrian than to being a lightweight motor vehicle. This needs to be accepted when it comes to provision and enforcement. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172073 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:27:14 +0000 Dave 172073@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Or... I guess the moral high ground is to say, since we're not sure if it's possible to legally cycle between these two endpoints, we shouldn't do it. </p> <p>If in years to come this is clarified, we could always change our minds then, but until then we can rest assured that subjecting ourselves to dozens of dangerous manoeuvres at the hands of crazy white van men every day is the Right Thing to Do.</p> <p>Got the car keys here somewhere. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172070 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:17:33 +0000 Dave 172070@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hmm. Rather than say that this can't be a legitimate complaint because it might legitimise some drivers' complaints, I suppose it's possible that this demonstrates the legitimacy of some drivers' complaints. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172066 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:04:09 +0000 steveo 172066@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>back to the corner, up the shared-use footway until the road opposite stops being BUS ONLY, then up the road.</em></p> <p>TBH I'm not clear when that road becomes two way. I usually ride up to the Tesco back entrance and try to cross there or if the traffic is heavy continue up the pavement till after Bankhead Trc and cross there for a few hundred meters before crossing back. </p> <p>Seriously there is no road in the city that would expect drivers to try and work it out in such bloody detail. </p> <p>This is why I generally say stuff it, continue on the "pavement"* after the "bike path"* goes down to puddle tunnel and cross at the cycle/ped crossing, ride up ambiguous road and cross to suicide drive with the RM lorries. Also, this is the family connection to the canal...</p> <p>*there is absolutely no change in path surface, width or occupancy at this point or any other point where it suddenly becomes a pavement. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172065 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:00:41 +0000 chdot 172065@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"20m of path with ambiguous legal definition that is wide barely utilized and going up hill."</p> <p>This'll be the 'convenient direct link between the popular canal commuting route and the Edinburgh Park centre of employment'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172063 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:56:05 +0000 steveo 172063@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>There would be a different response 'here'. </em></p> <p>Possibly, doesn't mean the council hadn't failed in their duty to provide clear road signs to either group though.</p> <p>Lets be clear, the ask here is for a 5 minute detour with rat running traffic and kamikaze RM lorries vs 20m of path with ambiguous legal definition that is wide barely utilized and going up hill.</p> <p>We shouldn't need Morningsider to go check on every pavement in the city. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172062 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:53:48 +0000 wingpig 172062@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote><em>"In this particular location, I can't work out how anyone is supposed to use this 'facility' legally. "</em></blockquote></p> <p>I'm always wary of this bit seeing as <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6083">gembo was hustled into the back of a police van a few years back</a> for using the BUS ONLY bit. When half the path on the north side of the road was blocked off it was trickier, but now that it's re-opened it's either:<br /> 1: bike along path, past the turn-off for the puddle-prone underpass, past the desire line, cross the tracks at the officially-designated official track-crossing point, across to the shared-use footway next to Hermiston Gait, back to the corner, up the shared-use footway until the road opposite stops being BUS ONLY, then up the road.<br /> 2: (for people in too much of a rush to go the long way round) stop at the point where it looks like it might be illegal to continue. Dismount, scuttle across, remount when on shared-use footway. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172060 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:46:57 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 172060@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There would be a different response 'here'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172056 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:39:26 +0000 steveo 172056@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There is a sign, there is paint on the pavement, there is no indication of where it starts or ends. If a driver was caught doing 60 in a 40 but there was no sign where the speed changed they <em>would</em> get off with it and no other driver would be chastising them for not noticing the some subtle change in the landscape that might indicate it had gone from national speed limit dual carriage way to suburban dual carriage way. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172052 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:29:08 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 172052@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Cycling's intractable self-righteousness problem?"</p> <p>More cycling's hypocritical double standards (though we've moved onto "if we don't know if it's legal then assume it is I guess). I don't know the facility, granted, I just know that when adriver states they did something that was wrong, but the signs were confusing to them, there would be adifferent response... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172049 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:22:00 +0000 Min 172049@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Best bike ever! :-D </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172047 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:18:11 +0000 AKen 172047@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>However, I do love the idea of people bowing when I ride past.How can we progress this? </em></p> <p>Pu Yi, the last emperor of China, managed to get people to do this. However, you probably need a bike like his to carry it off:</p> <p><a href="http://www.dragonsinn.net/Hoard/dragonbike2.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.dragonsinn.net/Hoard/dragonbike2.jpg</a></p> <p>..and it helps if you're an emperor. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172045 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:14:35 +0000 AKen 172045@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Ah, the little known "It's a hassle to obey the law so it's okay not to" defence. </em></p> <p>I agree with Steveo here. In this particular location, I can't work out how anyone is supposed to use this 'facility' legally. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172027 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:42:03 +0000 steveo 172027@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Cultins road is legal up to an undefined point. Its typical stupidity from the council.</p> <p><em>Ah, the little known "It's a hassle to obey the law so it's okay not to" defence. </em></p> <p>Perhaps more, the road is so badly designed its not clear that the road is one way from my entrance until I have a head on with a bus defense. Seriously no part of even Edinburgh's road network is a badly signed as that bit of Cultins Road </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13921#post-172025 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:17:53 +0000 Dave 172025@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think I've just reached the point where I'm too old (or my idealism has been too eroded) to worry about some things. Is it actually a cycle path but the signage is incorrect? Was it supposed to be a cycle path, the signage went up, then the council realised they'd filled in the wrong form so took it down again temporarily? Is it actually not a cycle path, even though it is signed that way, because the paperwork isn't valid despite the signage being up? Was it all just waiting for the end of the trams project but now been long forgotten? Is it a Core Path under the LRA and therefore not subject to any of this crap anyway? But wait, nobody's quite sure if the LRA actually achieved anything!</p> <p>There are few areas in life where people would not only tolerate such nonsense but also try to hold passers-by to account for it. Cycling's intractable self-righteousness problem?</p> <p>re: the chicane, I thought it was worthy of comment merely because it caused a furore on this forum when it was put in, yet it seems fine to me. However, I do love the idea of people bowing when I ride past. How can we progress this? </p>